roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Jul 5, 2021 9:02:01 GMT
Are any of these computer controlled systems any cheaper to run than a man in the signal box with levers, or the programme machine with relays? Are they cheaper to install? Are they more reliable or safer? ISTR when the Vic was opened reading that it required more ATOs than guards for one-man operation. The ARO's pay was higher than that of a guard.
Axle counters in open sections are susceptible to "things on lien line" such as the local yobbos pressing them up and down to give false readings (several cases in Lincolnshire on the main line). Can computers deal with things a driver might have to contend with such as someone who chucks a load of barbed wire on the track that gets tangled round shoe gear? Remove dead animals stuck between juice rails and running rails causing a dead short on the 750volt side? Real life situations that I had to deal with as a BR driver.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Jul 5, 2021 8:34:57 GMT
Upminster and Barking drivers do not go beyond HSK. This goes back to C stock days. yes but why would they? ... as history states that this is Metropolitan territory! I suppose that this also means that in the days when the District operated some of the Circle line trains (on Sundays) these were not crewed by Upminster or Barking staff. The only District crews to do the Circle were from Parsons Green. Acton Town crews signed to Edgware Road. Upminster and Barking (District) crews didn't go beyond High Street until fairly modern times. I don't think that was until well after the 1970s. I don't recall east end staff doing Edgware Road services in the early 1970s when I was on the District, but I may be wrong.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Jun 14, 2021 19:43:20 GMT
The Wuppertal Schwebebahn always has its service suspended..
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Jun 8, 2021 0:04:26 GMT
The best I can offer is from a brief conversation with "Harry the Hat" the Divisional Inspector I met on the Bakerloo tour of the Met back in early 1973. I was District pilot guard from Tower Hill to Aldgate East and stayed on for the rest of the trip, including a cab ride from Amersham. I was getting married later that year and was intending on moving from the DR to the Met and HtH told me about Croxley Green.
It was as you say a "cushy depot". A typical early turn would be Watford to Elephant, maybe Queens Park or Stanmore back to Elephant with a break at Wembley Park. Second half would be another round trip then back on the cushions. Seniority wise it was a very senior depot to get a transfer to and if I transferred to the Bakerloo I'd either be at Elephant or Neasden for a while waiting for a vacancy at Croxley. As it happened, I got transferred to Baker Street the week after I got married, then on to Neasden for a while, then Rickmansworth.
As far as I remember, all Bakerloo crews signed all routes.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Jun 7, 2021 23:50:07 GMT
I would suggest those responsible for this mess are the political masters at national and local level. Like the NHS, TfL is short of money. No amount of re-shuffling in TfL/LUL/whatever it's called this week, the sooner politicians stop meddling in things they don't understand (like driverless trains), street planning (try driving a bus round London) or future planning, they don't have a clue.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on May 24, 2021 20:03:14 GMT
There's been mention on other groups on here of the use of Westinghouse brakes. As a former LT guard 1970-74 I was trained as an emergency motorman as part of the training so had experience of using the LT version of the Westinghouse brake combined with the EP brake, type A as fitted to Q stock and the D type fitted to later stock. Training was also given on the former CLR locos converted to sleet locos many years ago; these had a pure Westinghouse brake.
Later I joined BR as a secondman at Rugby, later at Kings Cross where I had experience of handling vacuum brakes, air brakes, EP brakes and trains with no brakes except on the loco! A promotion to driver saw me at Addiscombe for a while then a move to Waterloo introduce me to the straight Westinghouse brake agin, this time on the 4SUB units and the famous Waterloo & City line. There was no EP brake, just the Westinghouse and a handbrake.
We had thorough training at the South side school at Waterloo with practical handling of all types of stock with EP and Westinghouse brakes. I won't go into the ins and outs of airflows, or the difference between the various types of brake handles or positions, my memory has faded on the niceties of those over the years, but elsewhere someone said it was not possible to get a partial release on a Westinghouse brake on T stock. I'm not old enough to have worked on T stock except ESL118 A/B when I was a guard at Ricky in 1973.
Part of the BR training was to drive 4 and 8 car SUBs in service which gave valuable experience of handling the Westinghouse and what it was capable of. We were taught by some of the "old boys" who drove the 12 car "Nelsons" on the Portsmouth line and the older SR units. The limiting factor of the brake was the size of the auxiliary air reservoir, a tank under each car which provided air for the brake cylinders on each car. That tank was 3 times the volume of the brake cylinders, so the drive could have 3 brake applications before that tank literally ran out of air! The knack was mainly route knowledge, knowing how much brake to apply initially to get a "bite" before putting the brake handle into the "lap" position to hold the brake pressure, then apply a bit more and back to "lap" until the train was almost at a stand then realise for the final few feet to stop without a jerk with the brake released.
All this was ok with a 4 car train, but releasing the brake meant there was a slight delay in the change in air pressure reaching the back of the train, so that could cause some "bouncing" between units or cars. with a 12 car train it was possible to break the coupling as the rear unit would release later than the front 8!
The Waterloo & City was all 5 cars and the brake on those was excellent, but the driver still needed care when approaching the tsops at Bank as there was no leeway for error when stopping there. It was indeed possible in latter years after they installed a "train has hit the blocks" warning switch in the track to stop the train so close that the centre buffer plate would bounce forward on it spring and leave a greasy mark on the stop block then bounce back without tripping the train hit the blocks switch. During the 1982 Dempsey and Makepeace filming mentioned elsewhere on here the director wanted the train to stop "about this white line" on the platform, the usual stop mark. We had a practice run, then he wanted me to back out and have another run, could I stop on the white line was the question. the answer was this edge of the white line or that edge? It was indeed possible to precision stop within inches with the Westinghouse, something I doubt would be possible with any modern stock
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on May 24, 2021 19:28:08 GMT
Actors are not classed as fare-paying passengers. Filming is carried out under possession with special rules in operation.
If anyone has seen the Dempsey and Makepeace edition where a Waterloo & City train was "blown up" circa 1982, I was the driver on that train. The line was operational fo a Sunday for filming, with one train static at Bank Station on the "down" line, with the "up" line run as a single line with one train in operation. Trip cocks were isolated and the train was run back and forth for filming. The job started at about 0700 and finished at about 2200!
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on May 24, 2021 19:18:52 GMT
To hark back a couple of comments, I'll start a separate thread in the historical section about the Westinghouse brake and it use if that's any help.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on May 24, 2021 19:06:40 GMT
Maybe because it's real track and not Hornby or Peco set track. The new pointwork will have been assembled somewhere in the open, then disassembled for transport to the site, but after the old paintwork or track has been removed. It will take several days to build the new kit, ballast it, fit juice rails, rewire juice rails, track circuiting, signalling or whatever fixed signals are being replaced with, then test running.
And remember all this has to be done in the confines of the tunnels.
I know Sullivan Buses are running replacement buses Tower Hill-Berking and Liverpool Street-Barking most weekends throughout June and July.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Apr 26, 2021 22:14:31 GMT
Sound like I.K.Brunel was right after all and we're slowly adopting his gauge by stealth.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Apr 26, 2021 22:10:22 GMT
Yes, probably that one. A short while after the whole line closed if I remember correctly. I have some pics of my buses running it somewhere but sadly undated!
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Apr 19, 2021 13:52:52 GMT
I worked as a secondment at Kings Cross 1976-78 and was rostered a few times on the converted 501 battery locos. The rails in Drayton Park were lightweight flat bottom and were taken by the Ffestiniog Railway after the engineering works had been completed. there was also a Br Mk1 Buffet Car provided on one of the sidings as a train crew mess room during the engineering works. We had an 08 and 31 in Drayton Park more than once. Sadly I didn't make time to expose the disused tunnels.
The furthest I ventured with battery locos was Highbury & Islington towards Essex Road. We had to walk the tunnel to Old Street to get out for relief!
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Apr 19, 2021 13:44:55 GMT
Seems like there's more down sides to automatic control than benefits. all this for what, an additional 2tph in places? and a total loss of flexibility.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Apr 19, 2021 13:37:12 GMT
There's also the "foreign object" that has fallen on the track variant. Us your imagination what they could be. some quite grisly, others can be amusing.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Apr 19, 2021 13:33:53 GMT
Does anyone remember the date and year of the massive failure, maybe 1994-1995 which caused the Central Line to close down for a couple of weeks or more? I'm certain ir was 1995 ofr maybe a year or so because of other memorable events in my life. The initial failure closed part of the line but repairs failed to fix the fault. To cut a long story short, the cause of the failure was found buried in Lots ROad power station.
The reason I ask is because I was one of those providing rail replacement services for the Central Line, probably the first time a big emergency job had not been handled by London Buses but was left to local managers to deal with.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Apr 19, 2021 13:30:08 GMT
1st engineer: what's the problem with the rectifier?
2nd engineer: It's f****d.
1st engineer: OK.
But yes, there's a lot of amps needed to move a train. I read that a typical Eurostar train would use more power for the "hotel" slices on board than it uses for moving along.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Mar 31, 2021 22:04:12 GMT
Wasn't Deans Lane the site of the original GNR/LNER Edgware Station? maps.nls.uk/view/103657502But then a further online map search reveals Deans Lane is the A5109 on the line of the GNR branch. In later years as part of the Northern Heights there was a connecting line between the Northern and GNR branches. I've recently seen a picture of an LNER steam hauled passenger train doing an excursion from Edgware LT station via Mill Hill to Southend (I think).
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Mar 31, 2021 21:58:10 GMT
I do wonder, is all this automation really necessary to achieve an additional 2 or 3 trains per hour? The District Railway was achieving 43 TPH and more in the days of steam working and manual semaphore signalling.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Mar 31, 2021 21:52:23 GMT
Have a look on the Historic board further down, there's been quite a bit on there about the subject of steam trains on the Central and Grange Hill.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Mar 19, 2021 0:15:44 GMT
Overheard at Earls Court many years ago: This train f'Kew an Richmon.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Mar 8, 2021 7:39:26 GMT
It's still fairly common practice in India and places east thereof.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Mar 8, 2021 7:31:08 GMT
No doubt someone will have the amended working timetable for the day as well.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Feb 22, 2021 7:59:41 GMT
The Adkins-Dawson system mentioned on page 1. A bit like the San Francisco cable car system then? A constantly moving cable with a grip to make the car go and stop. I'd suggest if the Underground were to be built today, it may well be to the larger European loading gauge to enable the use of double deck trains. As for gauge limiting the size of trains, have a look at some of the US railroads that run triple stack container trains on standard gauge. Maybe Stepghenson got it right. All containers ar 8' wide as it's the biggest "usually" allowed on road vehicles and has become the world-wide standard. Much like 25kvAC seems to be the new world-wide standard for electrification.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Feb 22, 2021 7:49:30 GMT
There's also a reason for the red aspect being at the bottom of the signal. Remember there was a tragic crash on the Brighton Line in 1977/78 when a main line express collided with the one in front during snow. The cause was the red aspect had been obscured by snow building up on the shroud of the aspect below it. the Brighton line signals were amongst the first used on the former Southern Railway and had the red light 2nd from the bottom.
I read elsewhere that the term is "arbor lights" for route indicators as the Latin term. I always thought it was harbour lights!
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Feb 22, 2021 7:41:00 GMT
I understand that SWR have hired in some p'way wagons and a diesel shunter from the IWSR to help with the track work.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Feb 1, 2021 12:44:04 GMT
Did this work actually happen? I was driving the Sullivan buses rail replacement from Newbury Park to Shenfield this weekend and although I saw signs for CL6 replacement buses at Newbury Park there weren't any buses for that service. We were also dong Barking-Tower Hill, so it would seem a bit daft closing the Central Line from Newbury Park to Bethnal Green as well!
What I did note was mid evening a train doing a short working from Newbury Park to Leytonstone. Trains also seemed to be running through to West Ruislip and Ealing Broadway.
I'd also suggest that the corrugated railhead also causes a lot of wear on wheels and suspension on rolling stock. that is probably the real reason for repacking the fixings rather than passenger complaints about noise.
Edited to add just seen the date for this planned work is February 13th. not this weekend!
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Jan 8, 2021 0:08:08 GMT
Possibly the last item of rolling stock to leave the line was the BR RMB restaurant miniature buffet that was planted in the depot for use as a train crew mess room for the BR staff. I worked down there a a secondment at KX on a class 08 and the converted 501 battery locos. somebody did take a 31 into the tunnel and reportedly got past Highbury with it! Otherwise engineering trains were powered by the battery locos. Behind the false walls on the platforms is a plethora of 1977 adverts and station signs all hidden away. Pity I never had a decent camera in those days.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Dec 13, 2020 16:55:09 GMT
Contractors pierced the tunnels under the A12 towards Gants Hill. Not sure about the Green Man roundabout.
A late friend who was rather high up in LT around that time had a daughter who was also high up in station management on the Central Line at the time. He was not impressed when she joined what were described as the "tree hugging protestors" in that area.
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Dec 1, 2020 20:59:13 GMT
The 38 already has "high voltage" jumpers between cars. If they didn't there would be a distinct possibility of the train getting gapped. As I've said elsewhere, filling any space with batteried would mean altering the springing arrangements and careful design to ensure maximum axle loading isn't exceeded. Maybe a spare battery loco in between the 2 cars?
|
|
roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,257
|
Post by roythebus on Nov 26, 2020 7:38:40 GMT
With all the talk of preserving Island Line 1938 stock and filling it with batteries to enable it to run on heritage lines, has nobody thought of prerving a couple of battery locos for the purpose?
It shouldn't be too difficult to fit Wedgelock couplers to the battery loco to enable it to work in multiple with the 38 stock. This would aboid the need to run rund at each end of the line as the battery loco could then be driven from the leading cab of the 38 stock. I wouldn't envisage the 38 stock being powered, just use the battery loco. That would sabe hving to fit 600v power jumpers between the battery loco and the 38 stock and the dangers of staff having to connect said jumpers.
|
|