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Post by superteacher on Apr 8, 2021 19:23:44 GMT
Taken from another thread:
Before the Victoria line upgrade, Metronet removed redundant rail through this same tunnel connection to Drayton Park for disposal by road, so it must have still existed maybe 15 years back.
I thought the Drayton Park tunnel mouths were sealed many years ago. How would trains from the Vic have been able to get to Drayton Park?
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Post by jimbo on Apr 8, 2021 20:15:33 GMT
I believe the two sections of trial tunnel north of Finsbury Park were intended to define post-war tunnelling costs to help with construction estimates. One had traditional cast iron linings and the other experimental concrete linings. However, this was all one tunnelling run connected to the southbound Northern City terminal road, and the first test trains to measure noise effects were Standard Stock trains from Drayton Park depot. I recall this from an early British Transport Films documentary. It became the southbound Victoria line, diverted south of Finsbury Park to a new alignment. The connections there with the Piccadilly line are sited where the reversing crossovers south of the platforms existed when these were both deep level terminal stations. Once the first stage of the Victoria line opened, Northumberland Park depot was filled with trains for the complete line, whilst a dispute at Acton Works resulted in a shortage of 1938TS on other lines. Consideration was given to working 1967TS manually on the Northern City Line to release the 1938TS to more important lines. The Victoria line trains would have been maintained at Northumberland Park depot and transferred through the Drayton Park connection. This unfortunately never came to pass, but was detailed in Underground News some years back. Before the Victoria line upgrade, Metronet removed redundant rail through this same tunnel connection to Drayton Park for disposal by road, so it must have still existed maybe 15 years back. I thought the Drayton Park tunnel mouths were sealed many years ago. How would trains from the Vic have been able to get to Drayton Park? This was at the time of the Victoria line opening, so before they had got around to sealing the tunnels. I feel the tunnels were sealed around the time of NR takeover of the branch. And there must still have been some access for Metronet to remove redundant rail more recently! |
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Post by superteacher on Apr 8, 2021 20:20:22 GMT
I thought the Drayton Park tunnel mouths were sealed many years ago. How would trains from the Vic have been able to get to Drayton Park? This was at the time of the Victoria line opening, so before they had got around to sealing the tunnels. And there must still have been some access for Metronet to remove redundant rail more recently! Interesting, because my recollection is that access from Finsbury Park (tube platforms) to Drayton Park was cut before the Vic line opened. The only link was to the BR station, which was used for stock transfers to and from Highgate (latterly Neasden). |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Apr 8, 2021 20:57:24 GMT
This was at the time of the Victoria line opening, so before they had got around to sealing the tunnels. And there must still have been some access for Metronet to remove redundant rail more recently! Interesting, because my recollection is that access from Finsbury Park (tube platforms) to Drayton Park was cut before the Vic line opened. The only link was to the BR station, which was used for stock transfers to and from Highgate (latterly Neasden). The tunnel mouths were demolished and landscaped. It is, however, possible to walk through the n/b former tunnel from the Finsbury Park end, and emerge at Drayton Park in the vicinity of where the tunnel mouths were. The gate is narrow and at right angles to the tunnels, so I’m not sure what any benefit would be of removing rails this way. Could someone have added 2 + 2 and come up with 5? |
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Post by superteacher on Apr 8, 2021 21:07:58 GMT
Interesting, because my recollection is that access from Finsbury Park (tube platforms) to Drayton Park was cut before the Vic line opened. The only link was to the BR station, which was used for stock transfers to and from Highgate (latterly Neasden). The tunnel mouths were demolished and landscaped. It is, however, possible to walk through the n/b former tunnel from the Finsbury Park end, and emerge at Drayton Park in the vicinity of where the tunnel mouths were. The gate is narrow and at right angles to the tunnels, so I’m not sure what any benefit would be of removing rails this way. Could someone have added 2 + 2 and come up with 5? Yes, and that tunnel is blocked off at the Finsbury Park end just before what is now the crossover from the southbound Vic to the southbound Picc. With my mod hat on, I’ve been instrumental in dragging this thread off topic, so I’ll split it tomorrow.
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
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Post by slugabed on Apr 8, 2021 21:19:26 GMT
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Post by superteacher on Apr 8, 2021 21:26:52 GMT
Was that around the time when the Ffestiniog railway took the rails from Drayton Park depot? |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Apr 8, 2021 21:27:35 GMT
Looks like the old tunnels to me. All they seem to have done is demolish the portals and then landscape what was left. From the inside, both tunnels now end in a pile of spoil, like quite a few disused mainline tunnels do when one end is buried. As to why this was done, who knows? It could have been to make space for the crossover which was installed at the north end of the platform, but that’s just a guess on my part. |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Apr 8, 2021 21:29:50 GMT
The tunnel mouths were demolished and landscaped. It is, however, possible to walk through the n/b former tunnel from the Finsbury Park end, and emerge at Drayton Park in the vicinity of where the tunnel mouths were. The gate is narrow and at right angles to the tunnels, so I’m not sure what any benefit would be of removing rails this way. Could someone have added 2 + 2 and come up with 5? Yes, and that tunnel is blocked off at the Finsbury Park end just before what is now the crossover from the southbound Vic to the southbound Picc. With my mod hat on, I’ve been instrumental in dragging this thread off topic, so I’ll split it tomorrow.
That ties in with what I recall. My memory is slightly vague, but I think the north end of the tunnel ends in a solid wall. Certainly I entered it side-on via a cross-passage from the s/b Victoria Line tunnel. Wish I’d had a bit more time, though I certainly had (made!) time to walk all the way to Drayton Park and back! |
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Post by superteacher on Apr 8, 2021 21:39:40 GMT
Yes, and that tunnel is blocked off at the Finsbury Park end just before what is now the crossover from the southbound Vic to the southbound Picc. With my mod hat on, I’ve been instrumental in dragging this thread off topic, so I’ll split it tomorrow.
That ties in with what I recall. My memory is slightly vague, but I think the north end of the tunnel ends in a solid wall. Certainly I entered it side-on via a cross-passage from the s/b Victoria Line tunnel. Wish I’d had a bit more time, though I certainly had (made!) time to walk all the way to Drayton Park and back! Bet that was quite an eerie experience, with the noise and air-rush of nearby trains! |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Apr 8, 2021 21:50:25 GMT
That ties in with what I recall. My memory is slightly vague, but I think the north end of the tunnel ends in a solid wall. Certainly I entered it side-on via a cross-passage from the s/b Victoria Line tunnel. Wish I’d had a bit more time, though I certainly had (made!) time to walk all the way to Drayton Park and back! Bet that was quite an eerie experience, with the noise and air-rush of nearby trains! It was overnight so all quiet. Have been down tunnels when there’s train movements in a nearby tunnel though, indeed very creepy. I seem to remember after the Drayton Park excursion timing it to climb up onto the platform at Highbury with only a couple of minutes to spare before time. Not really a problem, but one has to know the section well to do that, wouldn’t want to be stuck in the middle of a long section like Finsbury Park to Seven Sisters! |
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Post by jimbo on Apr 8, 2021 22:49:39 GMT
...... Once the first stage of the Victoria line opened, Northumberland Park depot was filled with trains for the complete line, whilst a dispute at Acton Works resulted in a shortage of 1938TS on other lines. Consideration was given to working 1967TS manually on the Northern City Line to release the 1938TS to more important lines. The Victoria line trains would have been maintained at Northumberland Park depot and transferred through the Drayton Park connection. This unfortunately never came to pass, but was detailed in Underground News some years back. ..... I thought the Drayton Park tunnel mouths were sealed many years ago. How would trains from the Vic have been able to get to Drayton Park? We need the Underground News article! I'll see if I can track it down. |
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Post by superteacher on Apr 9, 2021 7:21:42 GMT
I thought the Drayton Park tunnel mouths were sealed many years ago. How would trains from the Vic have been able to get to Drayton Park? We need the Underground News article! I'll see if I can track it down. Maybe @reganorak can help with finding something? |
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enness
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Post by enness on Apr 9, 2021 8:27:10 GMT
Article and photos of a walk through the tunnels (2003) on abandonedstations.org.uk Here - DraytontoFinsbury |
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Post by superteacher on Apr 9, 2021 9:09:39 GMT
Article and photos of a walk through the tunnels (2003) on abandonedstations.org.uk Here - DraytontoFinsburyYes, I think that adds weight to the idea that those tunnels were not used to remove rails from the Victoria line. |
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Post by jimbo on Apr 9, 2021 21:44:55 GMT
The story of redundant Victoria line rails being extracted at Drayton Park was in the Metronet staff magazine "Metronet Matters" a couple of times. It mentioned coming out into the light. I'm sure it was in Underground News at the time. I'm still to find it!
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North End
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Post by North End on Apr 9, 2021 21:48:40 GMT
The story of redundant Victoria line rails being extracted at Drayton Park was in the Metronet staff magazine "Metronet Matters" a couple of times. It mentioned coming out into the light. Could it have been from the Highbury end, and through the operational Network Rail tunnels reaching Drayton Park that way? Especially if the Northern City Line was still closed at weekends in those days, and Metronet had GBRF-contracted ballast trains for some of their projects? |
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Post by jimbo on Apr 10, 2021 4:55:22 GMT
I thought the Drayton Park tunnel mouths were sealed many years ago. How would trains from the Vic have been able to get to Drayton Park? We need the Underground News article! I'll see if I can track it down. Underground News November 2000 features the short article. At the time 1938TS was transferring regularly between Highgate and Drayton Park depots via the Northern Heights route. There is no mention of how 4-car 1967TS would transfer to and from Northumberland Park depot. |
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Apr 19, 2021 13:52:52 GMT
I worked as a secondment at Kings Cross 1976-78 and was rostered a few times on the converted 501 battery locos. The rails in Drayton Park were lightweight flat bottom and were taken by the Ffestiniog Railway after the engineering works had been completed. there was also a Br Mk1 Buffet Car provided on one of the sidings as a train crew mess room during the engineering works. We had an 08 and 31 in Drayton Park more than once. Sadly I didn't make time to expose the disused tunnels.
The furthest I ventured with battery locos was Highbury & Islington towards Essex Road. We had to walk the tunnel to Old Street to get out for relief!
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