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Post by youngmale1967 on May 22, 2021 20:19:09 GMT
I see on TfL website they got engineering works Earls Court to Aldgate East from Wednesday 4 August to Thursday 12 August. Anyone know what’s planned. (Westminster crossover by any chance) content.tfl.gov.uk/planned-track-closures.pdf
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2021 20:20:28 GMT
Nope afraid not
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 22, 2021 20:53:32 GMT
I see on TfL website they got engineering works Earls Court to Aldgate East from Wednesday 4 August to Thursday 12 August. A modified service will also operate Friday 13 August to reallocate rolling stock after the blockade and be ready for CBTC SMA 6/7 testing 14-15 August.
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on May 23, 2021 7:37:19 GMT
That explains Tower Hill to Upminster closure in a few weeks time
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DWS
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Post by DWS on May 23, 2021 8:36:23 GMT
I see on TfL website they got engineering works Earls Court to Aldgate East from Wednesday 4 August to Thursday 12 August. A modified service will also operate Friday 13 August to reallocate rolling stock after the blockade and be ready for CBTC testing 14-15 August SMA 6/7. Will trains run empty between Aldgate East and Earls Court as the crossover at Aldgate East was removed ?
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 23, 2021 8:57:16 GMT
Will trains run empty between Aldgate East and Earls Court as the crossover at Aldgate East was removed Because of the engineering work(*) no passenger trains can run via Victoria. There will be a special combined District/H&C service from Upminster-Hammersmith via King’s Cross Aldgate East is quoted, being the nearest station that trains will run. [*= the Forum staff are rather mystified by the real reason for a 9-day closure, quoted as a combination of “bullhead track replacement and heavy maintenance Embankment crossing”]
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DWS
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Post by DWS on May 23, 2021 17:06:54 GMT
Will trains run empty between Aldgate East and Earls Court as the crossover at Aldgate East was removed Because of the engineering work(*) no passenger trains can run via Victoria. There will be a special combined District/H&C service from Upminster-Hammersmith via King’s Cross Aldgate East is quoted, being the nearest station that trains will run. [*= the Forum staff are rather mystified by the real reason for a 9-day closure, quoted as a combination of “bullhead track replacement and heavy maintenance Embankment crossing”] The crossover at Embankment was going to be removed under the 4LM project and replaced with a scissor crossover like what was done at Kings Cross. I can’t recall the location of the replacement of Embankment crossover.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 23, 2021 18:06:06 GMT
It's east of the station.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers the grand plan for the scissors crossover, which I understand was to be about half way between Westminster and Embankment, similar to the one at King's Cross.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on May 23, 2021 18:17:53 GMT
It's east of the station. I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers the grand plan for the scissors crossover, which I understand was to be about half way between Westminster and Embankment, similar to the one at King's Cross. So why does it take a 9 day shutdown to replace some track and a set of points ?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on May 23, 2021 21:38:50 GMT
So why does it take a 9 day shutdown to replace some track and a set of points ? That is the $64,000 question that Dstock7080 alludes to above - it's a mystery!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on May 24, 2021 19:06:40 GMT
Maybe because it's real track and not Hornby or Peco set track. The new pointwork will have been assembled somewhere in the open, then disassembled for transport to the site, but after the old paintwork or track has been removed. It will take several days to build the new kit, ballast it, fit juice rails, rewire juice rails, track circuiting, signalling or whatever fixed signals are being replaced with, then test running.
And remember all this has to be done in the confines of the tunnels.
I know Sullivan Buses are running replacement buses Tower Hill-Berking and Liverpool Street-Barking most weekends throughout June and July.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 24, 2021 19:15:43 GMT
...but after the old paintwork or track has been removed. It will take several days to build the new kit... (my bold) I think the old paintwork is the least of the worries!
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 24, 2021 19:24:54 GMT
This is the part that I don't understand either.
I've been involved in Points and Crossing renewal works for several years; I can remember renewing the double junctions at Praed Street and Aldgate East (both done over four-day Easter closures), I was very involved in the provision of the Scissors Crossover at King's Cross, where the track installation work took about three days, and the renewal of the pointwork underneath the Earl's Court Road overbridge where to loose-lay (i.e. assemble from a kit of parts) six sets of points only took four and a half days. If slightly blowing my own trumpet, I would say I'm reasonably well qualified to comment on the time needed.
The signalling reconnections should be no more than a handful of axle counters and tags. There are no changes to the point machine type, so the testing is limited to setting it up again, running the tag trolley along and recommissioning. It's as close to like-for-like as it's possible to get. I really don't understand why nine days has been allocated for work that shouldn't take more than four at most - unless the scope of the track work is much bigger than we have initially been led to believe.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on May 24, 2021 21:32:16 GMT
Maybe because it's real track and not Hornby or Peco set track. The new pointwork will have been assembled somewhere in the open, then disassembled for transport to the site, but after the old paintwork or track has been removed. It will take several days to build the new kit, ballast it, fit juice rails, rewire juice rails, track circuiting, signalling or whatever fixed signals are being replaced with, then test running. And remember all this has to be done in the confines of the tunnels. I know Sullivan Buses are running replacement buses Tower Hill-Berking and Liverpool Street-Barking most weekends throughout June and July. No fixed signals to be replaced or track circuits the line between Tower Hill and Sloane Square is CBTC with ATO run trains.
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Post by spsmiler on May 25, 2021 8:57:06 GMT
in what is sometimes the hottest time of the summer, just when air-conditioned trains would have been most welcome. Instead many passengers will need to divert to the non-airconditioned Central and Piccadilly lines (unless they want the museums at South Kensington - in which case they will have to walk.)
oh and without Crossrail to soak up the load
part of the route could have been replaced with buses but recent speed limit reductions extending journey times mean that roads like the Embankment are no longer 'fit for purpose' for this task
Would a shuttle service be possible between Edgware Road and High St Kensington via Notting Hill Gate? Or is it that trains will still be able to run through Earls Court (Wimbledon / Richmond / Ealing Broadway / Olympia to Edgware Road)?
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DWS
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Post by DWS on May 25, 2021 9:25:50 GMT
I see on TfL website they got engineering works Earls Court to Aldgate East from Wednesday 4 August to Thursday 12 August. Anyone know what’s planned. (Westminster crossover by any chance) content.tfl.gov.uk/planned-track-closures.pdfThe link gives a reply of page not found 404 .It was working on May 22 .
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 25, 2021 9:45:59 GMT
Would a shuttle service be possible between Edgware Road and High St Kensington via Notting Hill Gate? Or is it that trains will still be able to run through Earls Court (Wimbledon / Richmond / Ealing Broadway / Olympia to Edgware Road)? As the closure is Earl's Court-Aldgate East there is no restriction from Earl's Court to Edgware Road. Most likely a 5-min District service from Edgware Road. I see on TfL website they got engineering works Earls Court to Aldgate East from Wednesday 4 August to Thursday 12 August. Anyone know what’s planned. (Westminster crossover by any chance) content.tfl.gov.uk/planned-track-closures.pdfThe link gives a reply of page not found 404 .It was working on May 22 . someone at TfL added two "." to the link! content.tfl.gov.uk/planned-track-closures..pdf
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 25, 2021 9:56:20 GMT
in what is sometimes the hottest time of the summer, just when air-conditioned trains would have been most welcome. Instead many passengers will need to divert to the non-airconditioned Central and Piccadilly lines (unless they want the museums at South Kensington - in which case they will have to walk.) oh and without Crossrail to soak up the load Worth noting that the school summer holidays (late July to early September) are traditionally a period of lower demand for a reasonably long period of time, in much the same way as the week between Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve is. Whilst the current demand is artificially suppressed because of the pandemic, it could be argued that the summer holidays may not be a lower demand period like they have been in the past (and indeed with reduced commuting but potentially more leisure travel and fewer families taking holidays away from London, could be more constant or even slightly higher off-peak), but at the moment it's not that easy to predict what passenger demand levels will be. A lot will depend on the Government's response to how the pandemic progresses. The original post did say Earl's Court to Aldgate East, which suggests that there will be a service between Earl's Court and Edgware Road, but no Service between High Street Kensington and Gloucester Road.
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Post by youngmale1967 on May 28, 2021 0:50:44 GMT
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Post by jimbo on May 28, 2021 2:27:07 GMT
It seems that interchange stations are open, except Embankment, which must be closed as the site of the planned works for equipment entry and exit.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on May 28, 2021 14:11:39 GMT
It seems that interchange stations are open, except Embankment, which must be closed as the site of the planned works for equipment entry and exit. So Northern and Bakerloo Line trains will not be stopping at Embankment,
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 28, 2021 14:46:48 GMT
It seems that interchange stations are open, except Embankment, which must be closed as the site of the planned works for equipment entry and exit. So Northern and Bakerloo Line trains will not be stopping at Embankment, Correct.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on May 28, 2021 15:59:48 GMT
So Northern and Bakerloo Line trains will not be stopping at Embankment, Correct. Yes Charing Cross a short walk from Embankment, as to equipment, etc isn’t it normal to have this delivered by engineering trains. I remember when the covered way in the Gloucester Road to High Street Kensington area was rebuilt, everything came by Engineers train .
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Post by taylor on May 28, 2021 22:03:14 GMT
Completely flummoxed! Just went and looked. Embankment SSR closed today and all stairways thereto likewise, several with some snazzy stainless steel permanent gates. DVA on Bakerloo announcing "Change...for...Circle and District Lines" So any guesses why Bakerloo and Northern cannot be handled similarly during the August? It remains to be seen unless chunks of equipment are being trundled from the actual Embankment through the booking hall
From the various discussions, I haven’t gathered whether the scissors x-ing at Embankment will actually be installed that w/e. Any insight, or have I misunderstood something?
On the subject of temporary safety barriers on the Underground, the care with which the barriers used to protect escalators being replaced, being that the substantial open mesh-work, the last 50cm to 1m, is not only carried to roof level, but trimmed to not even permit the smallest of gaps has always impressed me. Has there been any precedent which made that absolutely snug fit mandatory?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 29, 2021 21:23:40 GMT
My understanding is that it's heavy maintenance of the existing trailing crossover; the proposal for a scissors between Embankment and Westminster was quietly abandoned several years ago.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on May 29, 2021 22:45:37 GMT
My understanding is that it's heavy maintenance of the existing trailing crossover; the proposal for a scissors between Embankment and Westminster was quietly abandoned several years ago. So not a new set of points in the same location, what’s heavy maintenance ?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 29, 2021 23:28:49 GMT
It's open to interpretation, but is anything above regular maintenance and below full renewal. My expectation is that this is at the higher end of the spectrum being little short of a full renewal.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Jun 4, 2021 6:09:42 GMT
It's open to interpretation, but is anything above regular maintenance and below full renewal. My expectation is that this is at the higher end of the spectrum being little short of a full renewal. New stock and switch rails , replacement points machines ?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jun 4, 2021 8:28:32 GMT
Yes, and probably a skim dig and replacement of the ballast too.
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on Jun 4, 2021 9:09:35 GMT
that means the previous works on the crossover few years ago were inadequate
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