roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jan 7, 2023 19:28:47 GMT
Having thought about this a bit more and having just found the Harsig plans on here, I reckon that on arrival in platform 4 the loco would propel the train into the spur siding which according to Harsig approaches from the opposite end shown in the earlier NLS maps! so, in the spur, uncouple brake van, back clear of the spur points, and propel wagons up the incline and pull them back to the top level. It could be any number of means of propulsion, loco, gravity, hors, capstan, handraulic..
Wagons to be collected may have been assembled on the headshunt by the same means. the loco would then couple onto the south end of the wagons the propel them down the slop towards the outlet signal. Meanwhile, the guard could have let the brake van roll out of the spur to stop at the outlet signal, or maybe run into the platform if the signal was clear. the loco would propel the train onto the brake van then couple the brake van on, ready to depart back to Brent sidings.
I can't see a second loco being provided to shunt the yard when cheaper options were available.
Edited to add there was mention of a Jinty shunting the old Hammersmith & Chiswick goods yard. I've recently seen a picture of a Stanier 8F on a freight at Hammersmith & Chiswick Station. Over-powered I suppose, but a case of using whatever loco Cricklwood or Willesden had spare at the time!
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jan 7, 2023 19:14:56 GMT
Having blagged a cab ride on a C stock on training trips on the DR in July 1970, the instructor said they were only designed to run in 6-car formations. He reckoned there were about 28 modifications needed in the cab alone, thinks like it being impossible for the driver to blow the whistle if he's making an emergency brake application.
It was very rare to see a 2 car unit except in a depot. I don't recall seeing one anywhere. They always ran as 3x2-car units. It was also false economy to couple and uncouple units as a spare crew would be needed to do that in service.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jan 7, 2023 19:05:05 GMT
There's another week long closure during February half-term week. As a driver on the service from Watford to Harrow/Wealdstone and Harrow on the Hill, yes, traffic was awful in Watford at certain times. but we done our best and with a resilient timetable it worked well. Or would have done if there hadn't been emergency road worked just south of Weadstone Station that caused up to an hour's delay to buses! It was taking more than that to get from H&W to HotH and back so some journeys were cut short. I understand there ended up being at least 3 sets of emergency rad works from Harrow to Queens Park which caused considerable delays to other services.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jan 7, 2023 18:44:43 GMT
I was lucky enough to have a friend who was station inspector at South Ken in the mid to late 1980s. A couple of times I called in there at night and we explored "forbidden" bits of the station, including a walk up the "District Express" tunnel to its end a short distance from where the e/b Picc branches off, and a visit to what was the training school tunnel. I've mentioned on here before there was a platform there with "suicide" pit. some said it didn't exist but as it was part of the school it certainly did. It's now part of the lower concourse and escalator tunnel.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Nov 15, 2022 1:49:36 GMT
Thinking about the question, it would have been right hand drive going one way, left hand drive going the other way!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Nov 15, 2022 1:45:54 GMT
I worked on the Q/CP/CO stock on the District 1970-73. No speedometers on them. As others have said, shunt would give 10 mph, series would give about 20 mph, parallel whatever the conditions would allow.
Later on I worked on BR on the Waterloo & City which had speedos fitted and that confirmed what I said above. However the SUB stock upstairs had no speedo, but the same speed ranges applied. Driver's judgement.
On a Bakerloo tour of the Met in about 1973 I was in the leading cab on the trip from Amersham, and that train achieved over 60 down Chorleywood bank. The speed of all heritage DC electric traction is restricted by the speed at which the motors can turn caused by the back electromotive force (emf). The way to get a higher speed is to reduce the emf by using the field weakening switch!
As an aside there's a prohibited post above about a spy film featuring a Routemaster bus based in 1957. there was only 1 in service in 1957! The rest didn't appear until 1958/59, so much for historic accuracy. Maybe someone should have told the author.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 29, 2022 22:19:00 GMT
Remember the goods trains hauled by these locos were unbraked, stopping the train relied on the loco brake and the guard's handbrake in the brake van! I used to have the works drawing for the F class as I produced a cast metal kit for it many years ago.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 29, 2022 22:10:46 GMT
I'm certain I've seen the term "arbor lights" fairly recently in an ancient publication. The term "arbour" referring to tree. Assume (ignoring railway rule 1, never assume anything) the signal post is the "tree", if there were 5 routes that could be taken, the top of the signal post would look like a tree with 2 indications possible on the left, 2 on the right, with a proceed aspect for straight ahead. The maximum number of routes could be 7! any more than that on the big railway required a numerical indicator.
The term "stick" probably referred to the semaphore signal arm, or on single lines the token or train staff. Board was probably from earlier signals where there was a rotating board on top of a pole. If the driver could see the board he would stop at it. If he didn't see it, he kept going! the last signl like that was actually in operation until fairly recently on the Southam branch from Rugby. It controlled the entry to Bilton Cement Works. the line was operated on the one-train in section principle with a token being kept in the Rugby shunters' bunk. The loco required that to be on the branch. At Bilton a line branched off to the cement works across a main road. The signal was a board mounted on an OHLE lattice post. The board rotated and the driver could see it over the trees. when the shunter had closed the leve crossing gates and the loco pushed the train over the crossing. when the train went "bang" it had hit the works diesel shunter which then coupled to the wagons and took them on into the works. The loco and any other wagons the reversed back onto the branch. The board was turned back and the leve crossing opened to road traffic.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 29, 2022 21:51:51 GMT
WW Maxwell (head operating manager) used to live on the Wimbledon branch in the 1960s/1970s. A memorable occasion when one evening the legendary PG Motorman Harry Mason got gapped on Putney Bridge. There was a knock on the cab door, and a man enquired "what's the problem driver?" "Run out of electricity, got a shilling for the meter guv?" It was WW Maxwell asking the question!
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 29, 2022 21:37:11 GMT
NR purists will be happy that there's NR branding at Whitechapel. Whitechapel Station was jointly owned with the LTSR and later the LMS and BR.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 29, 2022 21:34:59 GMT
At PG LT own the land alongside the north side of the railway. It used to be occupied by the works and Buildings Department and was a haven for bus spotters wanting to "cop" the service vehicle fleet based there. On the south side the railway boundary is quite wide. Refer back to the early plans for 4-tracking from Fulham Broadway for proposed extension.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 1, 2022 8:41:57 GMT
That is more or less what I assumed. none of the track plans I've seen show a run-round facility in the goods yard. If anyone has the District Line working instructions for the pre-1965 era they ought to show what the arrangements were for entry and exit from the coal yard. There's very few people around now who would remember what they were either!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 1, 2022 8:20:48 GMT
I sometimes wonder if all these modern enhancements are worth it or are more reliable than the seat of the driver's pants? When I was a driver at Waterloo in the early 1980s with an 8 car SUB unit fitted with only a Westinghouse brake, coming into Clapham Junction on morning rush hour, I made the usual brake application just before the road bridge. It was a dry rail, sunny day, it seemed the brake didn't bite. The platform was crowded, I stopped on the 14 car mark. Which considering it was a 12 car platform was a bit embarrassing. what I didn't take into account was the train in front was cancelled and I had a full crush load on! Fortunately I heard no more about the incident.
Fast forward a year, with the introduction of the all-singing, all dancing 508 with Westcode brake, regen brake, wheelslide protection..running into Hampton Court one autumn day, checked the speed to 15 mph for the crossover, train didn't slow down very much. The WSP operated for the length of the platform and the train ended up in the sand drag. I heard no more of that incident either. But it shows that man and machine can make mistakes.
I'm certain there's a limit to how much the system can be optimised to match trains and signalling to the time it takes to load and unload trains. Remember on the Metropolitan District Railway they were running something like 36 TPH through Charing Cross in steam days pre-1906 and that was with mechanical signalling.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jul 4, 2022 19:33:20 GMT
I would imagine the owner of the EOR, also being a "property developer" as I understand it, may have an interest in local developments.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on May 30, 2022 14:21:59 GMT
Not according to the track plans I've seen, using the NLS large-scale maps of the are which have pretty accurate track plans. Unless good old gravity and horses were used for certain shunting moves. I can't see a second loco being based there to shunt the yard and assist with the run-round, it simply wouldn't have made common sence despite railway modellers wanting to provide locos everywhere for every purpose!
Which is why I'm still trying to find local working instructions for this yard and the West Kensigton coal depot which also seemed to lack a run-round facility!
Cricklewood had a small number of Jintys trip-cock fitted for working over the DR. From what I've heard they were put in the "own" position but rarely cut in. the reason being the train does not have continuous brakes, so the application of the "emergency" steam brake on the loco would result in a very rough ride for the guard rather than a gentle application of the brake to buffer up the wagons. There was a picture published recently of an LMS 8F 2-8-0 shunting the yard at Hammersmith & Chiswick! 1965 or 66 I think. It seemed a bit of a big engine for a dozen or so wagons.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on May 30, 2022 14:10:07 GMT
I had a message on FB from someone at about 10.30 saying what you say above, cable damage at Barking.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Apr 21, 2022 22:54:06 GMT
I remember seeing the new alignment tunnels being built when I used to bunk of fschool in the period 1965-1968, seeing the old brick tunnels being demolished, also the new Tower Hill Station being built. I learnt more in those days on the Underground than I did at school! I believe I travelled over the new track before the tunnels were boxed in.
The boxing in of Moorgate incorporated fan-powered vents in the Barbican end of the station over the loco spurs and the point where departing locos would stand. I am one of the few who has worked on the Met/Circle side as a guard at PG and later on the Met, and the Widened Lines as a 2nd man at KX in 1976-78.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jan 18, 2022 0:43:32 GMT
Another in my quest for information of the workings of the Midland Railway coal depots at West Kensington and Kensington High Street. Both closed to traffic in the mid 1960s, dates vary according to different sources, but basically the unfitted goods trains were steam hauled from Cricklewood using LMS "Jinty" tank locos via the Dudden Hill branch to South Acton, then round the now lifted Gunnersbury Triangle to West Kensington, using the lifted double junction just west of the station, on the site of what is now Ashbury House, and onto the coal depot that is now a housing estate.
Other trains ran via the same route and on through Earls Court to platform4 at High Streett, then a double shuffle up the incline to the coal depot, the site now occupied by a hotel. From track plans I've seen there's no apparent run-round at High Street so I'm still baffled as to how the loco would run round its train to go back to Cricklewood. The answer may be in a pre-1965 District Line local instructions book or if anyone has a British Railways Midland section "Working Over" book for the London area, that may have the answer. The working time ables would be handy as well as these would show the paths available, usually early morning or after the morning peak for eastbound trains and early afternoon for the westbound empties.
Maybe any ex High Street signalmen from that era would remember?
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jan 18, 2022 0:34:12 GMT
The bulbs were wired in series and as Dstock7078 says were covered with sliding or pivoting shutters. One light in the series was switchable to feed either the cab light or the air gauge light. 38/COP etc were low voltage lamps fed from battery or MG at 110v if I remember correctly. Q and standard stock were the same bulbs but with 6 or 7 in series, probably 7 to take into account over-voltage. Trying to rememebr this from 1970 is sometimes difficult!
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jan 17, 2022 13:22:50 GMT
As far as I remember proper headcodes were carried until final withdrawal. Old traditions die hard. The lights on the standard stock weren't individually switchable as they were wired in series from line volts.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Oct 4, 2021 18:36:14 GMT
The DR must have had to go some to build the curve in one day! And all that without the machinery we have these days.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Sept 27, 2021 17:26:20 GMT
Certainly, the Rother Valley Railway, the extension to the Kent & East Sussex Light Railway is being promoted under a Transport & Works Order.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Sept 27, 2021 17:14:10 GMT
Meanwhile omnibus replacement services were delayed between Greenford and Northolt w/b by the great unwashed queueing to buy road motor spirit, mainly at the Northolt roundabout on the A40. When the supply expired conglomeration of road vehicles dispersed until replacement supplies were delivered late on Sunday afternoon. However, similar situations existed later on Sunday just east of Park Royal and other locations.
There was a lovely collection of engineering support vehicles at North Acton for thos interested in such thinks.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Sept 20, 2021 23:00:41 GMT
We at Sullivan Buses will be doing rail replacement buses from Willesden Junction to Northolt this weekend 25/26 September 2021 for the Central Line. Notebooks at the ready...
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Sept 6, 2021 3:17:30 GMT
The lines on the left were the connection to the LSWR Chiswick loop with a connection towards Hounslow. these would have been used by trains from Waterloo to hounslow via Clapham Junction, Addison Road, shepherds Bush, Hammersmith Grove Road and Turnham Green. That line between Addison Road and Hammersmith closed during WW1. The viaduct between the current District and Picc Lines in the lasting memory of it, as is the bump in Brook Green Road near the junction with Shepherds Bush Green.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 2, 2021 8:38:32 GMT
I have copies of the Acts enabling the extension of the Piccadilly Line aldwych branch to Waterloo dted in the mid 1960s. the same Act also enbled parts of the Victoria Line extension and other bits and bobs of access tunnels in various places. I've put extracts of these on here before.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 12, 2021 7:54:44 GMT
The District Line has always been eastbound/westbound. It certainly was in 1970 when I worked on there.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 5, 2021 9:16:30 GMT
They tend to allow more over-run on engineering work these days.
As others ay embankment is now not fit for purpose for motor vehicles, making any rail replacement bus service impractical. I remember about 25 years ago doing those with London General when we had up to 40 buses lined up on the Embankment running a 2 minute headway to South Ken. these days there's also no spare capacity on TfL spec buses to run such a service midweek.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jul 5, 2021 9:08:36 GMT
I thought all announcements were done by Sonia. More disturbing are the Thameslink announcements, when a woman's voice suddenly changes to a man for the next bit!
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jul 5, 2021 9:02:01 GMT
Are any of these computer controlled systems any cheaper to run than a man in the signal box with levers, or the programme machine with relays? Are they cheaper to install? Are they more reliable or safer? ISTR when the Vic was opened reading that it required more ATOs than guards for one-man operation. The ARO's pay was higher than that of a guard.
Axle counters in open sections are susceptible to "things on lien line" such as the local yobbos pressing them up and down to give false readings (several cases in Lincolnshire on the main line). Can computers deal with things a driver might have to contend with such as someone who chucks a load of barbed wire on the track that gets tangled round shoe gear? Remove dead animals stuck between juice rails and running rails causing a dead short on the 750volt side? Real life situations that I had to deal with as a BR driver.
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