PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Sept 10, 2012 12:51:48 GMT
The name Drapers Fields appears to have been applied not only to the PW depot, but to a temporary crossover installed to allow trains to terminate at Stratford and then reverse as the line through Leyton was still in process of conversion. The report into the untimely collision on this section in December 1946 www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_Stratford1946.pdf sheds detailed light on the temporary arrangements.
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PGtrips
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Posts: 113
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Post by PGtrips on Aug 21, 2012 13:30:14 GMT
It's not clear from the sentence, but reading further on you discover that there is no interchange available at Ally Pally to decant pax onto. Also, Ally Pally is entirely unsuitable for mega interchanging between rail and bus due to steps only up onto the (rather narrow) footbridge. The road goes in 3 sides of a square round and over the line just north of the station. There is either a steep path up to the top road or very little road space outside the station building. Although the W3 passes this way, there would be no room for stabling waiting buses and the facilities would not cope with a whole trainload of passengers trying to change, or many mobility impaired passengers. Also, it would be hard to get a bus out onto the rods that go north.
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PGtrips
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Posts: 113
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Post by PGtrips on Jul 19, 2012 14:19:48 GMT
No idea what it's about, but this and this will explain why it wasn't stopping at Mornington Crescent - it wouldn't be going through it! Confused as to how this is done efficiently reversing SB-NB. This diagram www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Euston%20&%20KX-leu5-4.gif would seem to imply that the train would have to traverse Euston Loop, and then enter the NB tunnel in the wrong direction at Kings Cross. Or does it go onto Kings Cross Loop to enable the driver to change ends and not block up the Northbound Service?
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Sept 6, 2011 13:56:06 GMT
I would be interested to know the original number of diagrams and how they were deployed by service for the 57x3 car Class 501s when introduced from 1957. As I understand it, they themselves replaced 77 Oerlikon LNWR sets and at that time the later built LMS sets were also still in use, giving a fleet of over a hundred units.
What was the maximum length of train operated - I remember the Watford - Broad St via Primrose Hill workings being 6 cars in the late 70s, but the platforms on much of the NLL were really short at that time - had they been shortened from their length of previous years and if so, was 6 cars the norm on the NLL? Would Euston-Watford have taken 9 cars?
Obviously, the services to Croxley Green, both ways and both routes of Watford -Broad St are no longer operated, but I'm still struggling to work out how all those units were used. Were the service frequencies different then?
Any info from those with historical WTTs, etc would be much appreciated.
Also, when were the earliest 501s withdrawn, did any not get painted blue, and what happened to them?
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PGtrips
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Posts: 113
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Post by PGtrips on Sept 6, 2011 13:28:58 GMT
So what is the rationale for removing all luggage racks, given that they are metal, and therefore of interest to the scrapman and that no other stock has them?
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Sept 5, 2011 13:35:04 GMT
I've just passed 5141 and 5136 over at neasden beaches. ( Sandite road) both are being stripped of parts. So what is the extent of parts recovery given that the units need to be capable of movement under their own power after stripping? What can be taken off, leaving enough left on for the unit to function?
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PGtrips
Ahh... don't you just love PG?
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Post by PGtrips on Aug 18, 2011 13:49:34 GMT
So it has no prospect of ever turning a wheel in anger again? Why was it sent to London Road in the first place?
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Aug 17, 2011 12:26:05 GMT
Which 72Mk1 unit is that that is stabled? And how long has it been there?
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PGtrips
Ahh... don't you just love PG?
Posts: 113
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Post by PGtrips on Aug 10, 2011 12:26:36 GMT
Ladies & Gents, We are launching a new website to replace Dave's original Trainweb one later this month. At the same time we will be giving the forum a full refurbishment, and as part of that, we will require a total of Ten Moderators. Welcome to the new mods and thanks to the existing ones for doing a great job and sometimes having to tread a fine line. I do hope that none of the content of Dave's original site will be lost, particularly the personal reminiscenses/comments about the job from Dave and some other colleagues. These give such a fascinating insight into the daily workings of the District, and the character of those employed working on it.
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PGtrips
Ahh... don't you just love PG?
Posts: 113
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Post by PGtrips on Jul 28, 2011 13:46:00 GMT
[/li][li]Regarding crashworthiness of D stocks vs NR traction, what about East Putney – Wimbledon and Richmond – Gunnersbury on a daily basis? [/quote] One word: tripcocks!!!! And now NR has TPWS and/or ATP (location), there is no reason for them to have such severe crashworthiness either - - oh, except for double occupation of platforms. * Scrap this para and stick with tripcocks!*[/quote] Not sure whether this is an expetive or a safety critical comment. Not everything that runs down either of these routes is tripcock fitted. Therefore the issue with crashworthiness would still arise if a D was run into from behind by an NR train.
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PGtrips
Ahh... don't you just love PG?
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Post by PGtrips on Jul 28, 2011 13:38:24 GMT
What kind of signalling does the line have on it at the moment? Could it be that AC electrification would also retail an entire resignalling, but DC electrification would not? Much of the line itself is still semaphore, as mentioned above. However, it is the signaling at the Leeds and York ends which would probably need modifications for dual DC and AC operation. It's Track Circuit Block from Leeds to the fringe of the York control area with Horsforth Box. Thence Absolute Block all the way, with a smattering of Intermediate Block signals (all running signals colour lights) to the south end of Harrogate. Thence AB with semaphores onwards to Poppleton. Thence TCB into York. Thus the York signaller is in the position of a train leaving their control area only to magically reappear at the other end of the panel about an hour later. They are allegedly putting in some more IBs to break up the otherwise very long Harrogate - Rigton and Rigton - Horsforth sections.
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Jul 26, 2011 13:25:49 GMT
I use this line daily, commuting from Burley Park. There are a number of factors which make this suggestion at least worthy of consideration - When the Northern Rail franchise was let, it was on the basis of zero growth and no increase in rolling stock. There is already a chronic shortage nationally of pacer/sprinter type stock. Northern did well to procure some additional 150s and 158s but has experienced a huge growth on all routes. Even the influx of 172s to LM releasing 150s will not yield much stock for Northern, as ATW and FGW are equally struggling to keep up with growth and such 150s as have been released have been eagerly snapped up by all these operators.
- Harrogate line platforms were lengthened to 92 metres to take 4x23metre sprinters in 2003. Longer trains were duly introduced but are now regularly severely overcrowded (to the extent of leaving people behind). Harrogate is booming, with a very buoyant conference and hotel market – making people get there on an overcrowded 142 is unlikely to enhance the experience for this sector of the market.
- The topography of the line is key. Most services/diagrams are self contained on the Leeds – Harrogate – York axis. There is one daily HST each way to London. The gradients are severe in both directions up to the summit near Horsforth and from Crimple Viaduct into Harrogate. There are a number of PSRs and frequent station stops. Therefore what is needed is a train with good acceleration rather than a blistering top speed, so the D Stock would fit the bill on that front. In terms of OHLE, as was said in the BBC article, Bramhope Tunnel (long), Knaresborough Tunnel, and the viaducts over the Wharfe, Crimple Beck and at Knaresborough would put up the cost of electrifying at 25KV overhead enormously.
- In terms of the interface at Leeds and York and people suggesting complete segregation, it should be pointed out that DC 3rd/4th rail trains and 25KV overhead have co-existed quite happily in the same location since the 1960s – the approaches to Euston, the NLL at Camden Road and changeover points at Drayton Park and Farringdon spring to mind.
- Regarding crashworthiness of D stocks vs NR traction, what about East Putney – Wimbledon and Richmond – Gunnersbury on a daily basis?
So if the consortium behind the bid have done their sums, then I say good luck to them. Incidentally if you haven’t travelled it, the Leeds – Harrogate – York line is a wonderful piece of railway – stunning scenery through the Wharfe Valley and still all semaphore north of Harrogate, with single line and crossing loops east of Knaresborough.
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PGtrips
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Posts: 113
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Post by PGtrips on Jun 24, 2011 14:26:12 GMT
IIRC the arrangment allowed the two companies to run trains in numbers proportional to their ownership of the track. As the Met owned more than half the track, it ran all the trains on one diection, and a few in the other. The MDR ran the rest. I guess that would not be too marvellous for evening out tyre wear. It would be interesting to know if Circle diagrams of that period stayed on the Circle all day. Are there not some moves today round both available triangles to ensure units get turned regularly to even out wear?
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PGtrips
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Posts: 113
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Post by PGtrips on May 17, 2011 15:10:07 GMT
Well I suspect I have had my last 67TS haulage. I was travelling from Leeds - High Wycombe on Friday and back again Sunday. Went looking for 67s at about 16.40 and had 3178 northbound from KX - Highbury. The motors on the rear car appeared to be cut out as no noise from them and performance of the train was very sluggish. I thought that was my lot and a sad way to finish.
However, on my return on Sunday, I had not factored in the Circle/Met closure, so had to go Marylebone-KX via Oxford Circus. Amazed that there are still booked workings for 67s at non peak times and what should roll in but 75+78, with 3178 apparently restored to full health. So my unexpected final ride was in a set that was fully functional and so I could enjoy all the 67 noises in full for one last time.
I don't live in London, and will not be back down until late June, so I guess for me that is it.
I shall very much miss them
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Mar 21, 2011 13:50:49 GMT
So sorry to hear of the untimely passing of District Dave – as has already been said, this is incredibly sad news and a total shock to me as I had no idea he was even ill.
I had the privilege of meeting Dave for the last unrefurbished D Stock working. That this was even a commemorative and public event was, I have no doubt due to Dave’s indefatigable ability to do ‘more than just the job’ and to enthuse colleagues and management alike so that everyone involved was galvanised into going the extra mile in terms of preparation which enabled a great night to happen. From the greetings he received on entering the train at Earls Court right through to the last rites at Ealing Common, the esteem in which Dave was held by colleagues and forum members alike was clear to see. What remains with me was how Dave and the other staff on duty that night went out of their way to share the evening with all present. Dave exhibited such a charming and patient manner with everyone and it was a real pleasure to be able to share a conversation with him.
As a visually impaired person, who would have dearly liked to have been a career railwayman and who has been a frustrated enthusiast ever since, I am deeply grateful to Dave for having the vision to set up the present forum, thereby enabling the means for many to share so unselfishly the inside view of the job and for those of us on the outside to gain just a little more insight into the complexities involved.
At least the Richmod – Upminster section of the splendid ‘East London & District’ DVD is a permanent and fitting record and reminder of Dave’s driving prowess, and the passion he clearly had for the job.
My sincere condolences to Dave’s wife and family at this time.
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Mar 4, 2011 14:26:48 GMT
There is a very interesting accident report here www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=1402 pertaining to a collision at Faringdon in 1939 which clearly illustrates how the process of signalling development, including draw up signals, has been influenced by the need to guard against adverse operating incidents being repeated. It serves to illustrate how the overlap on a starting signal was inadequate for a train starting halfway down the platform - obviously not a problem that could occur now, but running in at too high a speed could without the aforementioned protection. A most interesting read.
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PGtrips
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Mafias
Jan 20, 2011 13:27:48 GMT
Post by PGtrips on Jan 20, 2011 13:27:48 GMT
....you have to go to the "mafia man". The mafia man is a driver who co-ordinates the whims and wishes of the mafia members, taking their duties off them and redistributing the work so that all of the mafia members get what they prefer. So at what point does the Mafia Man square up the changes he has agreed with drivers with management? Are there any times that management may intervene and require a driver to work a certain shift - e.g. for assessment or to maintain road knowledge? What happens if someone who has been swapped then goes off sick? Does the arrangement fall by the wayside, or is it honoured? Presumably, Management wants to be assured that all duties are covered, so what is the process for ensuring this? Also, presumably mafia co-ordinating can be time consuming - does the mafia man have to do this in his own, or the company's time? And ditto same question in respect of those drivers who compile duty books. Thanks PJ
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PGtrips
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Mafias
Jan 18, 2011 15:20:34 GMT
Post by PGtrips on Jan 18, 2011 15:20:34 GMT
Profuse apologies to Colin for my posting in the wrong place, and many thanks to him for his comprehensive explanation. It's clearly a subject of key importance in achieving a reasonable work life balance whist working in an industry that requires covering just about 24/7. As I recall there was a management attempt 10 or so years ago to enforce the title of "changeover syndicate" rather than mafia. Clearly it didn't stick! I guess it is more of a descriptive title, but much more boring! ..... Metropolitan Fluffy Link (don't ask - I think there was a thread on this some time ago!) I'm asking!! Or at least a signpost to the thread in question. Cheers for all the responses PG
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PGtrips
Ahh... don't you just love PG?
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Mafias
Jan 17, 2011 14:54:52 GMT
Post by PGtrips on Jan 17, 2011 14:54:52 GMT
As you probably know Acton doesn't have a Mafia so any change over of duties that you might want has to be done on the basis of mutual changeovers, but again I emphasise that earlies are in short supply. Mafia? Sounds dodgy, but probably isn't. Please could someone explain what this is and how it works, and the Acton alternative? Thanks, PG
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Jan 12, 2011 14:01:24 GMT
It could be renamed "Church Street" or "Paddington Green". ;D I'd plump for Paddington Green as it is right opposite Paddington Green police station! If you went for Paddington Green, would that not add further confusion for the (much busier) Paddington mainline, Praed St, H&C and Bakerloo complex, which I'm sure has been discussed in one of the sub-surface threads. Surprised that no one has yet mentioned the arch anomaly of all of these of 'Monument for Bank'. Surely the way to manage this in a helpful way is with DVAs and possible extra signage saying 'this is XYZ, alight/change here for ABC'?
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PGtrips
Ahh... don't you just love PG?
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Post by PGtrips on Jul 26, 2010 22:35:52 GMT
So they are wedgelock then. I find that really surprising and interesting. Quite something that a coupler whose original design is over 70 years old has been specified for a brand new train. I guess it's a case of if it ain't broke, don't fix it....
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Jul 26, 2010 13:35:04 GMT
On page 1 of this very thread, set numbers 271 and 272 are mentioned a few times - that suggests to me that it's quite deliberate to run two together.... But 271 and 272 are not timetabled to run consecutively - the Vic doesn't have self contained set numbers which run consecutively. In fact, in the off peak, 271 and 272 run exacrly one hour apart. Could it be that they are running 09s consecutively to mitigate against problems if one of them fails and requires a pushout? What is the situation if a 67 has to push out an 09 or vice versa? Presumably, the couplings are not compatible?
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PGtrips
Ahh... don't you just love PG?
Posts: 113
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Post by PGtrips on Mar 30, 2009 14:32:43 GMT
reganorak is correct. DR men did Sunday Circles. So where did they get relieved, then as the trains wouldn't go near PG in the course of the day?
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Mar 24, 2009 15:06:52 GMT
No doubt this was used as a last resort as the CO/CPs on the circles went from 5 to 6 cars in 1959-60 as a result of overcrowding - so I guess a 5 car R stock in the mix was fairly unpopular.
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Mar 17, 2009 15:48:27 GMT
So prior to 1970, was it all semaphore all the way from East Putney - Wimbledon? Are there any pictures around of the old signalling?
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Mar 9, 2009 14:16:58 GMT
It will be removed for a few months. As it has been out of commission for over a year now I don't think it will cause any more problems than it does today. ........but I go back to my original question - WHY has it been out of commission for over a yera?
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Mar 9, 2009 14:12:26 GMT
IIRC the District stopped working the top Circle Saturday trains sometime in 1972, just after LT had spent a fortune on new R stock blinds with them all on; this was about the time the R stock was reformed to 7 cars, another waste of money. This, presumably, is what prevented all the football specials continuing, as they would have had to be only 6 cars maximum for the platforms between High St - Baker St. They could presumably be resourced from stock that was only required M-F for 'mainline' DR work and not limited to the 6 car sets for the Wimblewares, of which there would not have been enough. On that basis, wasn't the ceasing of DR uncoupling Oct 71? There was a very interesting thread on here with lots of pictures of uncoupling portions at PG, but it seems to have disappeared.
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PGtrips
Ahh... don't you just love PG?
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Post by PGtrips on Mar 2, 2009 14:41:05 GMT
What is the problem with it currently that requires this interim solution of plain lining it? If a component is life expired, isn't it easier to replace it either like-for-like or with a direct equivalent (I'm sure the answer to this will be 'no', but can someone please explain why?).
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PGtrips
Ahh... don't you just love PG?
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313101
Feb 4, 2009 15:15:10 GMT
Post by PGtrips on Feb 4, 2009 15:15:10 GMT
.....Why did the NLL EMUs have bars on their windows?? Limited clearance in Hampstead tunnel And also over Camden Road bridge, where the clearance was only 2-3 inches each side. Fantastic Broad St pics, ATO, thanks for posting. I used Broad St regularly at this time. The 416s were introduced in late 1984, I believe. The NLL service was diverted to run to N Woolwich in 1985, replacing the Camden Rd - N Woolwich DMU service which was the stronghold of some of the roughest 105s on the network. The third of the three pictures is very interesting as they had already agreed to close Broad St and sell the land to build the Broadgate development, but there were issues with the statutory closure notice about having a direct service from the Watford line to the City. So, as can be seen, they reduced the line from Dalston to a siding and retained the signal box and one starting signal and built a temporary platform just long enough for 3 cars whilst they demolished the rest of the station. This arrangement had to stay until the Graham Road Curve in Hackney was completed, and the Watford - Broad St service could be diverted to Liverpool St. At that point, the dual system/votage capabilities of the 313s got used in service on these lines for the first time. There were not enough spare 313s around for the NLL to go over to 313s at the same time as the Euston - Watford DC, so the 3 car 501s got replaced with 2 car 416s until the early 90's.
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PGtrips
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Posts: 113
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Post by PGtrips on Feb 3, 2009 14:36:16 GMT
Weren't some cars actually horse-drawn through country lanes? Yes,I thought so,too,but wasn't sure enough to say it out loud!! Was this in a book? Does anyone know which one? There is a series of pictures certainly in the late 1970s edition of 'Tube Trains Under London' by J Graeme Bruce. These clearly show Standard Stock cars being delivered hauled by steam traction engine on road bogies. There was a set of gantries at Morden (and, I believe Golders Green also) to lift the car bodies so that rail bogies, delivered separately, could then be inserted underneath. The Kerr Stuart mentioned is clearly visible on at least one of these pictures. It was engaged on moving the bogies and shunting the completed cars around the depot. The reason for all this is that at that stage, the Northern in general was still isolated from the rest of the system as the connection to the Picc was not then finished, and specifically the Morden extension was still under construction until after most of the stock for it had actually been delivered to Morden.
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