metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Dec 10, 2008 20:37:30 GMT
My father often tells me that as a child (in the 50s) he remembers a steam train puffing through his local station Tufnell Park. I can't work out which steam train it would have been, and why or how it would be in tube tunnels. My dad's not gone mad (yet), can anyone help?  |
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Post by Tubeboy on Dec 10, 2008 21:39:54 GMT
There was steam hauled freight trains North of East Finchley [which were diesel worked in the last year]
Maybe he meant a steam loco being hauled by battery locos?
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 10, 2008 21:45:55 GMT
That's what I thought. He says it was a condensing tank engine! The Central London Railway had a tube gauge engine but I think that had been scrapped by the 50s!
Any other ideas?
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
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Post by slugabed on Dec 10, 2008 22:52:18 GMT
There's always a truth in these stories,but it isn't always the one that's exactly as described.
My uncle told me that Steam trains still ran on the tube,late at night,pulling goods trains,he'd often seen them after a night out,waiting for the last train.I thouht this was nonsense until I remembered he'd moved to Herefordshire in 1969/70 and had previously lived in Leigh-on Sea.He'd seen steam engineering trains on the Eastern District,I'm fairly sure.
Not goods trains,not the tube,but distinctions lost on a layman.
AFAIK all LT steam engines were sub-surface loading-gauge,so couldn't be towed through Tufnell Pk Northern.BUT- Engineering trains would've been quite common. Steam trains would've been all over the LT sub-surface lines at this time,and would've been a daily sight on the T&HJ through Junction Rd (Tufnell Pk) as well.
I've found myself that we can build fragments of memory,individually utterly correct and accurate,into a whole which never happened.
I may be wrong,and would certainly love to see a photo of a tube-size,condensing steam loco on the Northern,but......
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Post by CSLR on Dec 10, 2008 23:19:58 GMT
I may be wrong,and would certainly love to see a photo of a tube-size,condensing steam loco on the Northern,but...... There was actually a steam locomotive on the line in the 1920s - before it became the Northern. I am pretty sure that I posted a picture and details of it in a thread here a couple of years ago. Maybe Colin can remember where it is? If not, I will try to locate it or post the details again; but I am a little busy with something else at the moment  so it may be a week or two before I can get round to it. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 11, 2008 9:20:14 GMT
There were indeed several tube-size steam engines; the Central London had (I think) a couple; and then there is L.45 (or was it L.44), which was a Kerr, Stuart Tattoo - the only picture I've seen of this engine is in the commemorative book for the last steam workings. Here is a 2'3" version, being fired by yours truly, here, and here. This example is just a little smaller than the tube size version, the cab was bigger. |
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Oracle
In memoriam
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Post by Oracle on Dec 11, 2008 9:54:57 GMT
If the thread can be found, I mentioned dates for N7-powered 'last Northern steam' trains which I found in one of my UndergrounD issues on the Northern Heights.
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Post by CSLR on Dec 11, 2008 10:04:15 GMT
and then there is L.45 (or was it L.44), which was a Kerr, Stuart Tattoo - the only picture I've seen of this engine is in the commemorative book for the last steam workings. This is the one that I am talking about. It was a 1922 Kerr Stuart Brazil type (builder's number 4215) built to tube gauge. It was 9'6" when measured from rail height to the top of the chimney. Introduced on 13 Sep 1922, it was initially used for marshalling works trains at Stockwell Depot, although it appeared elsewhere when that site was closed. It moved to Morden in 1925 and stayed there until 10 Jun 1927. After that it was numbered L33x and subsequently renumbered L34. It was withdrawn on 31 Mar 1949. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 11, 2008 10:33:41 GMT
Aha! The picture I was thinking of has it in LT maroon, with L.34. There's not a lot of difference between the 'Brazil' and 'Tattoo' classes; small Kerr, Stuarts are much of a muchness once you get bigger than a 'Wren'.
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Post by CSLR on Dec 11, 2008 10:40:52 GMT
Aha! The picture I was thinking of has it in LT maroon, with L.34. There's not a lot of difference between the 'Brazil' and 'Tattoo' classes; small Kerr, Stuarts are much of a muchness once you get bigger than a 'Wren'. They all look pretty much the same to me. The picture that you posted is a fair representation of what the tube loco looked like. |
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
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Post by slugabed on Dec 11, 2008 10:46:19 GMT
Well I never! Thanks,guys!!
I've just dug out my copy of "The Last Drop" and there,large as life,is a picture of L34 made by Kerr,Stuart,for use on the Northern line.
Also,a picture of one (No.2) of the two CLR steam locos.
As No.34 was withdrawn in 1949,I suppose Metman's dad culd've seen it on its way to its fate......?
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Post by CSLR on Dec 11, 2008 10:52:01 GMT
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 11, 2008 10:55:59 GMT
Are you sure that is L34? That looks more like 3' gauge - was the cab rebuilt at some time during its life?
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
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Post by slugabed on Dec 11, 2008 10:56:42 GMT
Presumably as it moved toi Morden in 1925,it was involved in the construction of the depot there? I've seen a series of amazing pictures of the depot progressing from being a field in near-open country,to tube cars being delivered by road.Does anyone remember where these pictures were published? And perhaps L34 appears "in action" in some of those pictures?
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Post by 21146 on Dec 11, 2008 11:13:56 GMT
Presumably as it moved toi Morden in 1925,it was involved in the construction of the depot there? I've seen a series of amazing pictures of the depot progressing from being a field in near-open country,to tube cars being delivered by road.Does anyone remember where these pictures were published? And perhaps L34 appears "in action" in some of those pictures? Weren't some cars actually horse-drawn through country lanes? |
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Post by 21146 on Dec 11, 2008 11:17:08 GMT
My father often tells me that as a child (in the 50s) he remembers a steam train puffing through his local station Tufnell Park. I can't work out which steam train it would have been, and why or how it would be in tube tunnels. My dad's not gone mad (yet), can anyone help? Junction Road for Tufnell Park on (today's) North London Line? |
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
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Post by slugabed on Dec 11, 2008 11:18:34 GMT
Presumably as it moved toi Morden in 1925,it was involved in the construction of the depot there? I've seen a series of amazing pictures of the depot progressing from being a field in near-open country,to tube cars being delivered by road.Does anyone remember where these pictures were published? And perhaps L34 appears "in action" in some of those pictures? Weren't some cars actually horse-drawn through country lanes? Yes,I thought so,too,but wasn't sure enough to say it out loud!! Was this in a book? Does anyone know which one? |
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
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Post by slugabed on Dec 11, 2008 11:19:53 GMT
My father often tells me that as a child (in the 50s) he remembers a steam train puffing through his local station Tufnell Park. I can't work out which steam train it would have been, and why or how it would be in tube tunnels. My dad's not gone mad (yet), can anyone help? Junction Road for Tufnell Park on (today's) North London Line? On the GOBLIN line,a little West of Upper Holloway. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Dec 11, 2008 11:37:19 GMT
Where Junction Road goes over the Goblin, is where the station was located. West of the station was Junction Road Junction [Hmm, I know! ;D] where straight ahead lies the line to Gospel Oak, or bearing left takes you to the Midland Main line.
The station closed in 1943. In 1902, it had sold approx 150,000 tickets, 20 years later it was only 30,000.
The Hampstead tube, as well as the numerous tramways were the cause. WW2 was the final blow. Hornsey Road and St Anne's Road [Further East] were closed roughly at the same time.
The Middleton Press book "St Pancras to Barking" is an excellent read. Only one photo of Junction Road though, not many pictures were taken whilst it was open.
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Post by CSLR on Dec 11, 2008 11:42:08 GMT
Are you sure that is L34? That looks more like 3' gaugeNope. The photo was taken at Stockwell Depot and that was always standard gauge. - was the cab rebuilt at some time during its life? The photo that I have posted shows the locomotive in its Kerr Stuart ex-works livery. As it was not used for passenger service, nobody seems to have bothered about what it looked like. The crew appears to have used their initiative to modify the otherwise basic cab to make it more comfortable. There cannot be many UK examples of wood panelled steam locomotives! By the time that it was numbered and repainted, it had acquired a more conventional cab. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 11, 2008 12:09:19 GMT
When I return to Wales; I'll search out the later picture I have of L34, and web it up.
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Dec 11, 2008 14:50:47 GMT
Where Junction Road goes over the Goblin, is where the station was located. West of the station was Junction Road Junction [Hmm, I know! ;D] where straight ahead lies the line to Gospel Oak, or bearing left takes you to the Midland Main line. Interestingly (?) the "Junction" in Junction Rd has nothing to do with,and in fact pre-dates the railway by many years. The road was built as a short length of turnpike to provide a junction between the Old North Rd (Brecknock Rd) and the Turnpike at Archway Rd. With Fortess Rd,upgraded from the old Fortys Lane,it enabled Northbound traffic from the western City to circumvent the steep hills into Highgate village without making such a diversion. |
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Jan 31, 2009 23:41:44 GMT
I seem to remember a Terrier being run at Morden Depot for an open day about 10 years ago, but don't know which Terrier or when!
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Post by bassmike on Feb 2, 2009 14:57:44 GMT
L 34 finished up at drapers fields leyton on the central line extension scrapped about 1948 I think
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Feb 3, 2009 14:36:16 GMT
Weren't some cars actually horse-drawn through country lanes? Yes,I thought so,too,but wasn't sure enough to say it out loud!! Was this in a book? Does anyone know which one? There is a series of pictures certainly in the late 1970s edition of 'Tube Trains Under London' by J Graeme Bruce. These clearly show Standard Stock cars being delivered hauled by steam traction engine on road bogies. There was a set of gantries at Morden (and, I believe Golders Green also) to lift the car bodies so that rail bogies, delivered separately, could then be inserted underneath. The Kerr Stuart mentioned is clearly visible on at least one of these pictures. It was engaged on moving the bogies and shunting the completed cars around the depot. The reason for all this is that at that stage, the Northern in general was still isolated from the rest of the system as the connection to the Picc was not then finished, and specifically the Morden extension was still under construction until after most of the stock for it had actually been delivered to Morden. |
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so it may be a week or two before I can get round to it.
