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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 29, 2008 16:57:45 GMT
The describers at Earl's Court are starting to come back, although not working as yet. They were away for "refurbishing" but unfortunately they have ruined the original look by changing the font to 'old Johnston' rather than the 'Gill Sans' used by the District Railway in 1908 when the describers were erected. They have varied the sizes of the lettering too. The arrows, (which DO look correct!) are to be lit by fluorescent tubes, rather than bulbs. I think these should now be classed as 'replica' rather than 'refurbishments' as nothing much has survived the refit. images.fotopic.net/yvifj1.jpg |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 17:04:21 GMT
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Post by upfast on Oct 29, 2008 17:08:32 GMT
I have to say that the new ones do look very poor in comparison!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 17:28:52 GMT
Oh dear. Why are Metronet so bad at restoring old items like this?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 29, 2008 17:35:25 GMT
The surviving indicators were replated with 'Sans' font in the 1950s - the replicas look a pretty poor effort IMHO, but the originals were a mix of fonts as the non-stopping patterns were introduced and then waxed and waned. Other terminating points went - Gloucester Road became 'Special' in the '20s; West Ken and Addison Road also led a rather peripatetic existance on the boards.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 29, 2008 17:41:23 GMT
I noticed the other day that you can now start to see the train shed roof as the scaffolding starts to come down, from the Warwick Road end of the high level walkway.......looks rather modern for a station with listed status  The describer boards were certainly 'listed' independently, to my knowledge - in any case though, aren't listed buildings/items supposed to be restored to original condition as far as possible? It would appear that there has been a rather poor effort put in with regard to staying with original designs in these two instances... |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 29, 2008 18:06:18 GMT
Even the TOWER HILL in the above pic was tastefully added in the late '60s replacing BOW ROAD.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 20:25:00 GMT
With restorations it depends if and when it was listed by English Heritage. I am on the committee for the Friends of Upminster Windmill and we are having to restore items as it was when it was listed by English Heritage when they recorded it about 30 years ago. www.upminsterwindmill.co.uk |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 20:28:04 GMT
I noticed the other day that you can now start to see the train shed roof as the scaffolding starts to come down, from the Warwick Road end of the high level walkway.......looks rather modern for a station with listed status The new exposed metalwork is all unpainted - I hope it is going to be painted! Wasn't the metalwork all painted red before? |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Oct 29, 2008 20:43:38 GMT
I noticed the other day that you can now start to see the train shed roof as the scaffolding starts to come down, from the Warwick Road end of the high level walkway.......looks rather modern for a station with listed status The new exposed metalwork is all unpainted - I hope it is going to be painted! Wasn't the metalwork all painted red before? Yes the metalwork of the roof was red. |
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Post by ribaric on Oct 29, 2008 20:55:17 GMT
Having not (yet) contracted this strange malaise called "Railway Historia" I guess I'm in a position to comment from a different perspective. So, let me get this straight: The EC describers had been earmarked as some kind of heritage piece and so Metronet were required to retro-fit them into the updated (doubtless computer controlled) train destination system. So they go to all this trouble to make them work .... and then get the fonts wrong!
To me, they now look kind of new, certainly not something I'd immediately recognise as being saved from the past.
Is it me?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 29, 2008 20:57:51 GMT
No. Your take on the situation sums it all up, really.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Oct 29, 2008 21:26:31 GMT
The old font looks like a condensed Johnston to me - similar to that used on bus destination blinds. I do know which firm did the refurb work on the signs - the same one who provided the temporary ones. Sadly, I can't help feeling that Tubelines would have done a better job. |
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Post by happybunny on Oct 30, 2008 15:58:31 GMT
Why didn't they just put them in the original condition, on display in the museum ?
Also are they planning to install dot-matrix indicators ? I understood this was going to be standard at all stations to 'future-proof', even ones where they won't be put into use straight away.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 30, 2008 16:07:11 GMT
Why didn't they just put them in the original condition, on display in the museum ? They can't go in the museum because of the listed status - they have to stay put. I don't think they have to work, but of course it'd be silly to have something and not make use of it. Also are they planning to install dot-matrix indicators ? I understood this was going to be standard at all stations to 'future-proof', even ones where they won't be put into use straight away. There was a plan to install dot matrix indicators in addition to the boards being discussed, however their usefulness has always been questioned against cost. Given the junctions in the Earls Court area, the current state of the TD system and the number of reforms that can occur; there are many with the purse strings that are not convinced about the suitability. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2008 16:30:44 GMT
I don't see why we can't have dot matrix at Earls Court, even if it only ever shows the first train. Then we could have the scrolling messages for service disruption etc.
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Post by londonstuff on Oct 30, 2008 16:33:26 GMT
Just seen these for the first time: they look SO rubbish! Someone within LU must have ok'ed this before it was done. Shocking  |
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Post by happybunny on Oct 30, 2008 16:36:15 GMT
I don't see why we can't have dot matrix at Earls Court, even if it only ever shows the first train. Then we could have the scrolling messages for service disruption etc. Exactly, some dot-matrix's on the East End do not even show the destination of the train in the platform. And although I have questioned there usefulness in the past, they can be used to display information. Sometimes I notice the staff at Gloucester road use the DMI on the Circle line to manually provide train arrival info. They get it to scroll something like "Next Circle line train on this platform due to arrive at 1727hrs" or similar. A good idea ! At Ravenscourt Park Picc platforms I have noticed dot-matrix destination screens are installed. The staff choose to display information "For the correct Heathrow terminal text your flight no to xxxxx" ... rather silly considering the Picc doesn't (usually) stop at these platforms. A much more sensible scrolling message would be "STAND CLEAR - Fast trains often pass through this platform - stand behind the yellow line at all times" And whilst were on the subject, didn't Turnham Grn Picc platforms get DMI's when it was refurbed? I was sure it did, and notice they are missing (or was on the WB at least the other day) ! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2008 23:08:25 GMT
pdated (doubtless computer controlled) train destination system I doubt it very much. It will be exactly the same principal as before unreliable and cheap |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2008 23:27:00 GMT
Sorry to harp on my earlier message, but it might be worth checking if it Earls Court was listed by Englsih Heritage. If it was then they would be a big support in getting it right.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 31, 2008 2:02:24 GMT
Well I was there in my station staff days and I can assure you much of the District part of the station is definitely listed; I suppose a check with English Heritage would confirm the exact nature of the listings.
The front (Earls Court Road entrance), train shed roof and destination boards are for sure. I think it has to be said that they actually did a good a job with Earls Court Road exterior - a nice change for a Metromess refurb.
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Post by Chris W on Oct 31, 2008 12:34:47 GMT
OMG!!!    The "refurb" is appalling IMO - at least if they had scrapped it and introduced dot-matrix it could have been argued that it was the price of progress!!! Apologies for posting a link to one of my own photos, but a last look at the old describers in their former ORIGINAL glory... cjw.fpic.co.uk/p42754048.html |
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Post by tubeprune on Oct 31, 2008 14:19:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2008 15:14:18 GMT
There is another station that had a dot matrix installed and it's now gone .... Dagenham Heathway w/b I think (one of the island platforms anyway). One that never showed anything useful.
Meanwhile those installed east ofBbarking are of less use than the old light boxes, they at least used to show if the next train was an Upminster or a Dagenham East, the dot matrix just shows "Check destination on front of train". The bay road at Dagenham East permenantly shows first train from platform 1 ...even when the next train is from the bay.
Whilst the very nice original arrowed indicator at Gloucester Road w/b now fails to illuminate an arrow for either Ealing Broadway OR Richmond ....
frankly ...the whole effort is just rubbish ! (and I haven't even noticed the new refurbished indicators at Earl's Court) !!
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Post by happybunny on Oct 31, 2008 15:39:41 GMT
Also I never got why a Terminating train is described as "STOPS HERE" on the arrow boards. All the bloody trains stop there (except the one or two a day that are not in service) !
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Post by Chris W on Oct 31, 2008 15:40:22 GMT
Whilst the very nice original arrowed indicator at Gloucester Road w/b now fails to illuminate an arrow for either Ealing Broadway OR Richmond .... frankly ...the whole effort is just rubbish ! (and I haven't even noticed the new refurbished indicators at Earl's Court) !! At least Wimbledon still works then cjw.fpic.co.uk/p53004441.htmlWhat would have become of the originals at Earls Court... on the scrapheap one assumes |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 31, 2008 15:59:13 GMT
What would have become of the originals at Earls Court... on the scrapheap one assumes The LT Museum were supposed to be heavily involved in the "restoration" of these describers and assurances were made that things would be 'done right' ! So perhaps the plates were removed for safe keeping by them? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2008 16:07:12 GMT
Having now looked at the picture linked in the first post ...i missed that on first view .... the font is wrong ...but at least the font used is Johnston and it does look nice in my view !
I'm a bit concerned that the arrows look so clear they may appear to be "present" when not lit !
I loved the link to that old indicator by Tubeprune .... the refurb indicators do look better than that font wise !!
Much better these refurbished ones than none I'd say ! Some dot matrix may be useful hung at the foot of each end stair case. I'd be happy if the temporary blue ones remained ... when they finally remove the scaffolding it may be possible to see them !!!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 31, 2008 16:14:09 GMT
I'd be happy if the temporary blue ones remained ... when they finally remove the scaffolding it may be possible to see them !!! I understand that some of those will be staying to compliment the 'originals'. I just hope that they turn them around so that the arrows face the track to which the destination refers, to match with the arrows on the 'originals'. The scaffolding may be about to dismantled, at last! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2008 16:20:41 GMT
I understand that some of those will be staying to compliment the 'originals'. I just hope that they turn them around so that the arrows face the track to which the destination refers, to match with the arrows on the 'originals'. Ahh good ! Yes, I agree ! |
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