roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2010 6:20:37 GMT
Having just finished the first restoration of RFW14 too, though the seats haven't been done yet! Sorry to go a bit off-topic.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2010 6:18:54 GMT
Don't forget there were 2 coal depots, one at High Street and one at West Kensington. I only ever saw the trains from platform level or waiting in the loop just west of Turnham Green. I wouldn't have known what to look for in that line of detail.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Aug 5, 2010 6:14:19 GMT
1923 as it was a 50 years of the Met book.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Aug 4, 2010 22:03:34 GMT
Only thing I miss of the A stock is being able to sit nice and cosy in the forward facing seats at the back of a car with one of my girlfriends on a fast to Amersham. Now I will just have to lean on her side by side. I remember when I was a guard on the Met in 1973, my first mrs used to like riding on the A stock. she found the compressor cutting in was "quite exiting"...
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Aug 4, 2010 21:59:39 GMT
Digging through the clutter in my railway room today, I found my long lost copy of the 50 years of the Met book, rather faded round the edges, but some wonderful piccys in there, including dual gauge at Hammersmith; inside the factory where the electric locos were lined up being built; a photo of the original contractors' train and much more.
I don't know if it's still in copyright so if anyone can tell me how, I'll try and post it here bit by bit.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Aug 4, 2010 21:56:30 GMT
Not sure if the LM locos used on the Kenny coal trains were trip cock fitted. I reckon they were Cricklewood locos, so probably yes.
As for the 31's, only the FP and Hitchin fleet were tripcock fitted.
I've made some postings on the RMweb about their exploits, including a run of 102mph on a Cambridge buffet train, and lifting a 900ton ballast train out of Kings Cross one Sunday.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Jul 31, 2010 23:41:10 GMT
Not really, you released the brake, applied power, and away she went. The 31s were quite powerful.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jul 31, 2010 23:39:03 GMT
Yep, in 1969 I wanted to buy a GS bus; I saved £100 to buy GS67 from tillingbourne and still have the same bus today, 41 years later! after several rebuilds, it's back in works for a nother refurb before going back into revenue earning service.
Pity about the F class though! A handsome loco.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Jul 20, 2010 7:31:53 GMT
Certainly the Finsbury Park class 31s had tripcocks for CWL use. the secondman had to nip down the side of the loco ayt York Way and reset the trip if the trip tester light didn't go out at the end of the platform. the2nd man would also have to cut the trip in at York Road. On the return trip, he'd cut it out on arrival at Kings Cross.
The effectiveness of the trip cock on an unfitted freight train is a moot point, as useful as a chocolate kettle, handbrake on a canoe etc. There was little point in putting the brake into emergency on the loco when there is no continuous brake on the train.
ISTR the sectional appendix for the GN said that non-tripcock locos could work over LT lines, but had to be double manned. I don't think the CoBo's would be small enough to fit on the widened lines.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Jul 20, 2010 7:19:38 GMT
In my view the current elfensafetea culture seems to rule out the individual styles of driving that were prevalent in the past. Everyone these days too afraid to run "hard" for fear of a spad.
In my days at PG, there was the handbrake shift and the handbag shift! I was on the handbrake shift! Some motormen could make up time if they were finishing; if it meant running late to get out of a trip, that too could be arranged...
In my days on BR, I worked with many different drivers as a secondman and no two were alike in their driving style and technique. My last regular mate was totally mad. On one memorable occasion we left Leeds with the 1700 to KX, stop at Wakefield and Doncaster. 17 late Doncaster due to signal failures, right time KX 1936. But we also had 17 minutes recovery time for track renewal. Luckily, that wasn't needed as the work had finished. The loco was a Deltic plus 8 Mk2's. 128.6 down Stoke bank was recorded by someone on the train...
It just couldn't be done these days because of the black box and jobsworth mentality.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Jul 6, 2010 5:28:26 GMT
The same sort of arrangement would have prevented the Ladbrook Grove tragedy; the Northwich collision in the WCML and probably more...
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jun 22, 2010 23:34:25 GMT
Can't help with the digital speedo, too modern for me!! Back to Sarah Siddons, she was dual fitted in Met and LT days, you can tell by the air pipes on the ends of the loco. ISTR the duplex gauge for the air brake was on the left side, in the same sort of place it was on most other stock of that era.
The Ashburys were vacuum braked for working with steam locos. The GCR and BR stuff in that area was not generally air braked. I suspect the Dreadnoughts were vac braked only, again to run with steam locos.
To answer MRFS42, it is perfectly possible to work single and double pipe air braked stock together, providing you only use the train pipe. The main reservoir pipe would not be much use on a single pipe vehicle. Also, you can mix distributors and triple valve stock, as long as the driver is aware. you only get 3 brake applications with the triple valve, and needs a special driving technique! Not for the faint hearted.
The purpose of the main res on the 2 pipe system is to recharge the distributors quickly. the main res on LT stock was to operate the doors, control equipment and EP brake; LT stock was all single pipe Westinghouse air brake.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Jun 22, 2010 6:36:29 GMT
It may be that the new Con/Dem government will be rather more lax about elfensafetea issues!
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Jun 22, 2010 6:23:56 GMT
It's been a long time since I was trained on the Met electric locos and the T stock, ESL118A&B. 1973 to be precise!
Dual brake technology has been around an awful long time. the LBSCR Terriers were dual braked as the LBSCR used air brakes, the rest of the railways, vacuum brakes. The KESR Terriers have air brake on the loco, and vac brake for the train. The IoW Terriers only have the air brake as the Island railways used air brakes.
Similarly, the Met locos were dual braked. I remember two brake valves in the cab of John Hampden, the one i learnt on. The standard Gresham & Craven vac brake, and the standard (?) Westinghouse brake valve.
Remember Sarah Siddons was a brake test loco, it used to say so on the side, so would have had loads of additional fittings which were nothing to do with the original equipment.
From memory, you would have had the usual Westinghouse duplex gauge, and a vacuum train pipe gauge.
I suggest to get things "right", you look at the other surviving loco in the museum!
As for the technical operation of the brakes, it depends whether the loco is air over vacuum or vacuum over air! On air over vacuum, like the Terriers and Met locos, the air brake works on the loco and a valve reduces the vac for the train. Humm you say, as some steam locos have a steam brake. They all work in a similar way, the valves cause a drop in the train line air or vacuum to apply the train brakes regardless.
The only time this doesn't apply is when the loco is fitted with an independant loco brake, such as BR diesels which have a separate loco brake; on those, when the vac or air for the train is reduced, the loco brake still applies. Use of the loco brake will not apply the train brake.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Jun 9, 2010 5:49:17 GMT
In my days at Kings Cross we only worked DMUs into Broad Street, only about 4 trains a day each way, can't remember where from. The units were usually the Rolls Royce engined ones. We certainly never worked loco hauled services there in the latter years, 1975-78.
Remember the NLL was an early candidate for closure under Beeching, and again in the 1970s due to lack of use. Though the trains would have been cut, most of the line would have to stay open for the amount of freight traffic carried. It would have been very short-sighted to have withdrawn passenger services.
You could compare that that idea with the proposed closure of the Wimbledon-West Crodon line. In BR days, the one train every 45 minutes carried few passengers; Tramlink is now chokablok with a tram every 7 minutes! where did all those people come from?
It goes to show if you improve the service, people will use it.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Jun 9, 2010 5:33:27 GMT
There's certainly clearance for the OHL at West Brompton. when they rebuilt the bridge in about 1970, the bridge was made to Berne loading gauge for that very purpose.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on May 27, 2010 10:50:02 GMT
Who wants electronic boards when those wonderful old blue enamel signs with an illuminated arrow work quite well?
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on May 22, 2010 22:02:49 GMT
Does this mean the end of the A stock then??
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on May 13, 2010 8:59:39 GMT
Browsing through the above book again, there's a complete track plan of the Grove road connection, the H&C station, and the lines to Turnham Green in the same book. diagram XIV
The signal box I mentioned above seems to be the LSWR one.
Thinking about it, the section north of Olympia would make an interesting models, with a vast variety of rolling stock whatever era you model.
ISBN 1 873793 84 7
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on May 13, 2010 8:13:57 GMT
You may find some diagrams in the book on the West London Railway; istr that has plans of Hammersmith in the early days.
from my memories, the signal box at Hammermith lasted till well into the 1970's to the west of the H&C station and some way back from the running lines, about opposite the car sheds.
Further up the line, when I learnt the H&C in 1973, they still had the connection and diamond crossing at Westbourne Park for Crimea sidings controlled by an X signal at the west end of the H&C platforms.
Near royal oak, the BR goods sidings adjacent to the H&C lines were fitted with derailment protectors, which consisted of angle iron about 6" above rail height and inside the running rails on the siding nearest the running lines. If any wagon derailed, it would place to danger the signals on that stretch of the H&C. Crude but effective.
Maybe I should also mention that Olympia was used for WR main line trains during the 1960's resignalling of Paddington. It was quite impressive seeing a sand coloured Western on an express set next to a Q stock at Olympia!
Re loco changes at Paddington H&C, from posts in District Dave's memory section, the Met kettles used to work through to Farringdon on goods trains. Remember the widened lines were not electrified, nor were Farringdon goods depots to my knowledge.
Edited to add you need the book West London Line by Vic Mitchell and Keith smith, published by Middleton Press. Diagram XII is a track plan of the very area you want, the Grove Road link, albeit in the very early days.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on May 12, 2010 22:26:07 GMT
As an aside, emergency vehicles operated by Gothenberg Tramways (GS) have had blue light status for years.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on May 12, 2010 8:20:50 GMT
I've got some 8mm cine of a standard stock cab ride in 1968/9, which includes a bit of PS Ryde and the last other surviving 02, which was cut up the week after my cine was taken. Can anyone convert mit to video for me?
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on May 3, 2010 21:30:16 GMT
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Apr 29, 2010 8:14:50 GMT
We had early turns at PG starting from 0445 and lates finishing up to 0130 in the 1970-73 period, plus at least 6 night shifts which included Christmas and Boxing Day too. So nothing new there, but we didn't have the level of night buses then that we have now.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Apr 29, 2010 8:11:04 GMT
Going slightly off-topic as someone mentioned DMU brakes, approaching fiunsbury Park one day with a 2-car Cravens at 70mph, my driver hit the platform at 70 and stopped bang on the 2 car mark! Quite a feat for a DMU with vac brakes and an experience I wouldn't like to repeat.
As for the comments on the A type EP, as said above, all or nothing. Remember the Q stock was fitted with that too, and my first official experience of training on the District was with an e/b Q stock in the am peak!
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Apr 29, 2010 8:05:22 GMT
ISTR the Met electrics were dual braked, so there would have been a duplex gauge for the Westinghouse and a vacuum brake gauge. It was a long time ago since I was trained on them, 1973 in fact! I don't recall them fitted with loco brake pressure gauges, but by 1973 we only had 2 in service.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Apr 29, 2010 7:54:38 GMT
ISTR the LT pannier and T stock will be in service on the Spa Valley this summer.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Apr 29, 2010 7:49:27 GMT
Used to be a constant problem on R stock, they were notorious for pilot lights going out. I was notorious for tipping out for the same reason!
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Apr 22, 2010 7:11:51 GMT
Which is why R stock had additional handbrakes in the guard's compartment. the rule book at the time stated that the handbrake must be applied if reversing at Bow Road., or if held at the signal on the bank for any length of time.
ISTR the Mansion house bay was taken out when the new Tower Hill was opened.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,256
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Post by roythebus on Apr 22, 2010 7:00:30 GMT
Why build one when there's a perfectly good kit available from Finecast. I make a kit back in the 1980's under the GS Models name and sold it to Finecast about 8 years ago. ISTR they do a chassis for it as well. I've still got the waterslide transfers including LT lining.
I still have a few sets of castings lying around, and may still have the Met drawing somewhere. the original is in the LT collection.
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