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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2010 10:37:15 GMT
I saw an empty Gatwick Express going through Clapham Junction yesterday and I would assume Heathrow and Stansted services must be the same because of the ongoing volcano related problems, is there any point in running these services?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 19, 2010 10:44:03 GMT
On the face of it probably not, but I would not be surprised if there is no mechanism in the performance figures to take account of situations like this. So that it probably works out cheaper for them to run empty services than to pay the financial penalties arising from poor reliability figures.
AIUI Heathrow Express effectively runs as an open-access operator between Paddington and Airport Junction, and Heathrow Connect certainly does so between Hayes and Harlington and Airport Junction. They are probably under some requirement to actually use their timetabled slots if they want to keep them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2010 11:24:05 GMT
The Gatwick Express has had some people travelling. Many people from south of Gatwick (or Horley) also use it, plus those people who are being put up in hotels waiting to fly away have been travelling up to London for the day.
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vato
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Post by vato on Apr 19, 2010 12:48:54 GMT
There will be people showing up at the airports if their tour operators manage to get them back to the UK, via coach for example. They will usually be dropped off at the airport as that is what the tour operators obligations demand.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2010 14:30:37 GMT
I guess airport staff need transporting too so at least when the restriction is lifted they are already in place to deal with the backlog
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Apr 19, 2010 22:06:14 GMT
'Gatwick Express' is now just an ordinary timetabled service on the line so has to run whatever.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2010 23:10:28 GMT
'Gatwick Express' is now just an ordinary timetabled service on the line so has to run whatever. It always has been AFAIK. It is now a brand of Southern, but still operated seperatly from their main routes (though they do make extra stops sometimes now when the service is disrupted, and sometimes the 442s are used by Southern and 377s by GatEx, the latter being rarer). Anyway I wandered off. When the UK airspace around London reopens, it is expected that flights will land at Heathrow (not sure about other airports) around the clock. LU will be running a 20 minute service from Heathrow as far as Hammersmith. If all goes to plan that is... |
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Post by happybunny on Apr 20, 2010 9:44:41 GMT
'Gatwick Express' is now just an ordinary timetabled service on the line so has to run whatever. It always has been AFAIK. It is now a brand of Southern, but still operated seperatly from their main routes (though they do make extra stops sometimes now when the service is disrupted, and sometimes the 442s are used by Southern and 377s by GatEx, the latter being rarer). Anyway I wandered off. When the UK airspace around London reopens, it is expected that flights will land at Heathrow (not sure about other airports) around the clock. LU will be running a 20 minute service from Heathrow as far as Hammersmith. If all goes to plan that is... What all night ?? Can they do so ? I certainly hope no T/Op's work overtime or do agree to any sneaky deals to make this happen !! |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 20, 2010 10:06:56 GMT
'Gatwick Express' is now just an ordinary timetabled service on the line so has to run whatever. It always has been AFAIK. It is now a brand of Southern, but still operated seperatly from their main routes In the peak hours several of them are extended to/from Brighton. Ther extra stock needed for this has seen a welcome return to service for the Class 442 Wessex electrics, which it is rumoured will shortly replace the Class 460 "Darth Vader" gatwick sets will which be used to strengthen SWT's technically similar Class 458 fleet. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2010 10:35:12 GMT
It always has been AFAIK. It is now a brand of Southern, but still operated seperatly from their main routes In the peak hours several of them are extended to/from Brighton. Ther extra stock needed for this has seen a welcome return to service for the Class 442 Wessex electrics, which it is rumoured will shortly replace the Class 460 "Darth Vader" gatwick sets will which be used to strengthen SWT's technically similar Class 458 fleet. There was (and occasionally still is) an Eastbourne peak train that is a 442 (not stopping at Gatwick though!) And the other evening a late night Brighton Express was a 442! I'm led to believe that at the end of the year when the Junipers are withdrawn (which is still happening) many Brighton Expresses will also be 442s! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2010 10:37:33 GMT
It always has been AFAIK. It is now a brand of Southern, but still operated seperatly from their main routes (though they do make extra stops sometimes now when the service is disrupted, and sometimes the 442s are used by Southern and 377s by GatEx, the latter being rarer). Anyway I wandered off. When the UK airspace around London reopens, it is expected that flights will land at Heathrow (not sure about other airports) around the clock. LU will be running a 20 minute service from Heathrow as far as Hammersmith. If all goes to plan that is... What all night ?? Can they do so ? I certainly hope no T/Op's work overtime or do agree to any sneaky deals to make this happen !! Night shift train operators will be used. Ironic that effort is being put into running this service, which is in my opinion pointless as the last thing these customers would want is to do lots of changes of mode. Shame the same effort can't be made at weekends! |
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Post by mcmaddog on Apr 20, 2010 10:39:49 GMT
What all night ?? Can they do so ? I certainly hope no T/Op's work overtime or do agree to any sneaky deals to make this happen !! Why not? Wouldn't they be helping out the public at a time of need? |
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cso
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Post by cso on Apr 20, 2010 10:41:52 GMT
What all night ?? Can they do so ? I certainly hope no T/Op's work overtime or do agree to any sneaky deals to make this happen !! Why do you hope that? Surely it would make sense to be seen to be providing a service, at least from the customer perspective.... |
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Post by andypurk on Apr 20, 2010 10:55:51 GMT
In the peak hours several of them are extended to/from Brighton. Ther extra stock needed for this has seen a welcome return to service for the Class 442 Wessex electrics, which it is rumoured will shortly replace the Class 460 "Darth Vader" gatwick sets will which be used to strengthen SWT's technically similar Class 458 fleet. There was (and occasionally still is) an Eastbourne peak train that is a 442 (not stopping at Gatwick though!) And the other evening a late night Brighton Express was a 442! I'm led to believe that at the end of the year when the Junipers are withdrawn (which is still happening) many Brighton Expresses will also be 442s! There still is a pair of 442s diagrammed on an Eastbourne - London Bridge return trip, to London in the morning peak (07.14 ex Eastbourne) and returning in the evening peak (18.22 ex London Bridge). It is quite surreal when the train is announced as a Gatwick Express service to Eastbourne calling at East Croydon, Three Bridge etc. with no stop at Gatwick. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 20, 2010 13:34:14 GMT
Back on topic, the national rail website says that Virgin and East Coast are each running three extra Anglo-Scottish trains each way (most of the EC ones are existing services extended from Newcastle/diverted from Leeds). Most operators will honour dated tickets to/from Stansted or Manchester Airports on future dates. (I didn't see similar conecessions for Gatwick or Heathrow though) Interestingly, the TfL site says that the Heathrow Express has been reduced to hourly, but there is nothing of this on the National Rail site or HEx's own site, with the live departures board showing all services running and on time. Is this a cunning plan to drum up traffic for the Picadilly line? |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Apr 20, 2010 17:49:18 GMT
What all night ?? Can they do so ? I certainly hope no T/Op's work overtime or do agree to any sneaky deals to make this happen !! Subject to the hours and meal reliefs for the handful of Night T/ops, there is no reason why they can't. As to your second comment, I believe that any decision related to working voluntary overtime is for the individual in question to make without external interference. |
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Post by 21146 on Apr 20, 2010 19:56:20 GMT
What all night ?? Can they do so ? I certainly hope no T/Op's work overtime or do agree to any sneaky deals to make this happen !! Why do you hope that? Surely it would make sense to be seen to be providing a service, at least from the customer perspective.... But who wants to be dumped at Hammersmith in the middle of the night, presumably then to hunt for a taxi that would have been more easily sourced at Heathrow? Semi-fast operation to Kings Cross would be a better bet. I heard the same rumour about an all-night service today but doubted it would "fly", pardon the pun... |
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Post by Tomcakes on Apr 20, 2010 20:49:27 GMT
What all night ?? Can they do so ? I certainly hope no T/Op's work overtime or do agree to any sneaky deals to make this happen !! The concept of "public service" seems to pass some people by. Aren't there drivers scheduled overnight for such "out of course" events, anyway? |
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Post by 21146 on Apr 20, 2010 22:53:11 GMT
What all night ?? Can they do so ? I certainly hope no T/Op's work overtime or do agree to any sneaky deals to make this happen !! The concept of "public service" seems to pass some people by. Aren't there drivers scheduled overnight for such "out of course" events, anyway? Not many, the Company Plan (yes, that again) deemed a lot of night turns "unproductive" and replaced them by earlier starts (e.g. Acton Town District moved from 0530 to 0445) and later finishes at depots. You reap what you sow. |
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Post by 21146 on Apr 20, 2010 23:00:09 GMT
The concept of "public service" seems to pass some people by. Aren't there drivers scheduled overnight for such "out of course" events, anyway? Not many, the Company Plan (yes, that again) deemed a lot of night turns "unproductive" and replaced them by earlier starts (e.g. Acton Town District moved from 0530 to 0445) and later finishes at depots. You reap what you sow. Going off-message now but I'm thinking the "10-Point Plan" was the greatest step forward for LT staff, and the "Company Plan" the biggest disaster. Third time lucky maybe in the future? |
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Post by happybunny on Apr 20, 2010 23:26:03 GMT
Exactly... and latest I heard is that for cost-cutting they want to further reduce night turn drivers or get rid of them altogether (having transplant/depot staff run sleet trains when necessary (which is actually a very small % of nights per year)). This would mean either later first trains starting, or LUL trying to move framework to allow booking on before 0445 (would be v.unpopular with staff, 4.45 is early enough for anyone to be starting work!!)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2010 3:23:55 GMT
This would mean either later first trains starting, or LUL trying to move framework to allow booking on before 0445 (would be v.unpopular with staff, 4.45 is early enough for anyone to be starting work!!) I doubt that will happen soon. Boris admitted only last week that he has scrapped plans for late night trains on Friday and Saturday evenings because the unions are not willing to negociate on later finishes. |
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Post by 21146 on Apr 21, 2010 9:42:18 GMT
Exactly... and latest I heard is that for cost-cutting they want to further reduce night turn drivers or get rid of them altogether (having transplant/depot staff run sleet trains when necessary (which is actually a very small % of nights per year)). This would mean either later first trains starting, or LUL trying to move framework to allow booking on before 0445 (would be v.unpopular with staff, 4.45 is early enough for anyone to be starting work!!) When I see staff getting staff taxis as early as 02:55 in order to arrive in time for an early turn I wonder if it's really expected that, say, a T/Op can remain vigilant for the whole of his/her shift as it stands, without starting these even earlier. |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Apr 21, 2010 11:20:34 GMT
4.45 is early enough for anyone to be starting work!!) Oh how times (and attitudes) change! Back in 1970 early starts at Edmonton bus depot started at around 0315 and there were several buses on the road (to Smithfield for example for the workers) by 0445!!! On the normal roster too. And BTW the last lates finished at 0215 the next day - and that on the same ordinary roster. I thought it was accepted by ANY public transport worker that earlies had to start early enough to get the early shift workers to their jobs........ (And yes, there was a separate nights roster as well) |
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Apr 21, 2010 14:56:54 GMT
Thinking to my time on the buses, a 0415 booking on time wasn't at all uncommon, there would be a dozen or more of us there at that time of day to run various staff buses. For me, it meant leaving my house just after 3am, obviously with no public transport at that time of day, I had to walk. This in turn meant being up not long after 2am and struggling round the house in the dark!
The bonus of an early turn means an early finish, some of the early turns had a finish time of 1030.
However, this is way off topic now......
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2010 18:29:43 GMT
Stansted Express is running an all night service tonight. No word yet on either Gatwick Express or Heathrow Express.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2010 21:51:35 GMT
Stansted Express is running an all night service tonight. No word yet on either Gatwick Express or Heathrow Express. HEx last night was running a train every 45 minutes last night. With flights expected overnight tonight (rather than the break from 0100-0400 or thereabouts), they might run more, but I have no information on that. Southern run trains every hour from Victoria and First Capital Connect every hour from London Bridge (or north of it) down to Gatwick Airport (and Three Bridges) overnight anyway. |
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Apr 29, 2010 8:14:50 GMT
We had early turns at PG starting from 0445 and lates finishing up to 0130 in the 1970-73 period, plus at least 6 night shifts which included Christmas and Boxing Day too. So nothing new there, but we didn't have the level of night buses then that we have now.
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