metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Dec 18, 2016 18:08:54 GMT
Yes it made a trip to Amersham this lunchtime.
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Post by patrickb on Dec 18, 2016 21:31:38 GMT
The RAT no longer worked the trips shown on the Leaf-fall WTT after Friday 16th. It made several journeys between Neasden - Amersham - HOTH - Uxbridge both yesterday and Today.
Several sources pointed at the RAT finishing it's Leaf-fall duties today, on the basis that Sandite is running a little thin?
Is this definitely confirmed? Or are there chances that it may run again, given that Rail head Conditions may be poor...
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Dec 18, 2016 22:52:25 GMT
Crew are booked on till the 23rd so if there is the need and the sandite I guess it will run (I hope!).
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Post by patrickb on Dec 19, 2016 14:01:36 GMT
Crew are booked on till the 23rd so if there is the need and the sandite I guess it will run (I hope!). Would be nice, but very unlikely at this point. |
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
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Post by a60 on Feb 20, 2017 1:26:41 GMT
Sorry to bump this thread folks. I was just wondering if anyone had any idea what was happening to the last 3 sets left on LU metals? Have their fates been sealed now, or is there any active movement wither within or outside of the company to put one aside for preservation?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 16:45:33 GMT
I know the current plan is to keep one set and sandite car for use next year during sandite season. If both D78 are fit to be used for sandite duties, the A stock RAT will be kept on as a 'just in case' solution.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 20:04:17 GMT
Does anyone know if the A60 RAT is likely to work a final time, in the autumn of 2017?
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Post by Chris W on Feb 21, 2017 20:54:16 GMT
Does anyone know if the A60 RAT is likely to work a final time, in the autumn of 2017? How bad will the next leaf fall season be ?
Will both D Stock RATs be fully operational and available throughout the leaf fall season ?
Will the A Stock RAT develop an unsolvable fault ?
My point being that no-one knows and there are too many if's, maybe's and possibly's...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 21:44:00 GMT
Thanks for responding.
I appreciate the points, but wondered if anyone knew for certain that the A Stock RAT had been withdrawn, or if any definite information was known either way.
It looks like I'll just have to wait and hope...
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 21, 2017 21:58:25 GMT
Why has LUL apparently gone to the expense of equipping a D stock train for Leaf fall instead of the presumably cheaper option of keeping the A stock one going? Even if the D is 18 years younger than the A, there must be a lot of work involved, even if the sandite equipment were to be transferred across rather than a new installation built for the D stock.
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 21, 2017 22:05:34 GMT
Thanks for responding. I appreciate the points, but wondered if anyone knew for certain that the A Stock RAT had been withdrawn, or if any definite information was known either way. It looks like I'll just have to wait and hope... At least one four-car A stock and the Sandite car should remain for the next season, largely as a back-up in the event of problems with the D stock. Beyond that, at the moment, nothing is confirmed. |
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Post by tjw on Feb 22, 2017 7:46:17 GMT
Why has LUL apparently gone to the expense of equipping a D stock train for Leaf fall instead of the presumably cheaper option of keeping the A stock one going? Even if the D is 18 years younger than the A, there must be a lot of work involved, even if the sandite equipment were to be transferred across rather than a new installation built for the D stock. Has the D-stock got a larger number of permitted routes than the A-Stock? |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 22, 2017 12:02:32 GMT
It did when both were passenger stock - iirc there was some gauging issues with the A stock (which is wider) at the east end of the District. In theory I think the D could act as a RAT on all open sections of the SSR (and the Picc between Acton Town and Rayners Lane/Northwood) if needed.
I suspect though that the main motivator is that the D stock is 18-20 years younger than the A, and more recently heavily refurbished, and so requiring less maintenance and that maintenance will possibly be easier. This probably means it's cheaper to run.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 12:33:15 GMT
Has the D-stock got a larger number of permitted routes than the A-Stock? Yes. D Stock can go anywhere on the sub-surface lines except Liverpool Street to Tower Hill via Aldgate. It can also do Hanger Lane Junction to Rayners Lane via Alperton and Acton Town to Northfields (including Northfields Depot). Any movements outside of its usual confines have to be empty of passengers. Since the nosing stones were adjusted at Finchley Road to reduce the gap between S stock trains & the platform, A Stock is now confined to Amersham/Chesham/Uxbridge/Watford to Neasden (platform 4 and Depot), Rayners Lane to Barons Court siding via Alperton/Acton Town and Acton Town to Northfields (including Northfields Depot. |
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Post by miff on Feb 22, 2017 15:39:02 GMT
Sorry to bump this thread folks. I was just wondering if anyone had any idea what was happening to the last 3 sets left on LU metals? Have their fates been sealed now, or is there any active movement wither within or outside of the company to put one aside for preservation? Are all 3 sets in working order? I'm aware one is a RAT but have the other two been used at all or were they just retained for spares/backup purposes? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 17:13:22 GMT
Why has LUL apparently gone to the expense of equipping a D stock train for Leaf fall instead of the presumably cheaper option of keeping the A stock one going? Even if the D is 18 years younger than the A, there must be a lot of work involved, even if the sandite equipment were to be transferred across rather than a new installation built for the D stock. I don't know much about the A stock rat, but doubt the tanks would fit into the D stock with its single doors. D stock has stainless tanks fitted. Equipment on the D78 should in theory have a longer life span as parts should not become obsolete as quickly as the A stock parts would. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Feb 23, 2017 21:55:51 GMT
The D stock RAT is formed DM-NDM-T(RAC)-NDM-DM rather than the A stock DM-T-T(RAC)-T-DM so obviously there are a lot more motors on a D stock and hence more effective under ATO so I'm told.
I've heard that 5110 is to be a spare for this year. I don't know if the second D stock RAT will be ready for this season.
For me I really hope that 5234 can be retained as it was the first in service. It is down for scrapping in 2018 however.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 15:20:35 GMT
Are there any plans, rumours of otherwise to do another heritage A stock run?
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Post by Chris W on Mar 2, 2017 16:16:31 GMT
Are there any plans, rumours of otherwise to do another heritage A stock run? I have asked the question of the LTM representative who is a member here, however, wearing a very realistic hat, tours are difficult enough to arrange when stock reach the end of their operational lives. I fear there would be too many challenges to overcome as A Stock haven't covered elements of the SSR since 2012. Due to works undertaken since gauging may have changed, the unit may not be authorised to carry members of the public, probably hasn't been maintained with passengers in mind etc. etc. etc. To line these ducks up would, I suspect, be extremely expensive in man hours alone, not to mention only 4 cars being available instead of 8, which immediately halves any income to cover costs (unless you double the price and the operator runs the risk of not selling seats/losing a serious amount of money). And then there's the planning that would normally take place for the average common or garden tour.... not that an average tour exists  IMO anyone thinking/hoping that a very very final A Stock tour might happen, will merely be a pipe dream, nonetheless, I have asked the question in the most appropriate ear |
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Post by philthetube on Mar 2, 2017 16:42:34 GMT
I know that the platform nosing stones at Finchley road have been moved forward to reduce the gap so that would probably prevent anything south or Wembley.
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Post by brooklynbound on Mar 2, 2017 17:21:12 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 17:39:22 GMT
It would be possible to run the A stock like they did last time (HOTH to Amersham) gauging wise, but yes, the issue is it is not maintained to a passenger hauling state. (iirc, one of the main round train circuits required for passenger hauling has been repurposed so a tour may be impossible)
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Mar 2, 2017 18:24:51 GMT
5110 did operate in passenger service a few years ago in September has the work taken place since then?
Best keep playing the lottery then....
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Post by patrickb on Mar 3, 2017 2:33:56 GMT
It would be nice to see A Stock Tours made into a regular feature as part of Steam On the Met and run services between HOTH, Watford and Amersham/Chesham. If there were some long term prospects, this might help to reduce the overall cost of running the A Stock.
It's understandable that it would cost more than an arm and a leg to bring a four car unit up to spec, but it may just be worth it if it helps boosts income from Steam On the Met on a yearly basis.
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Post by number35 on Mar 3, 2017 8:13:00 GMT
To all those fans of the A stock I'm sorry to say the Museum has no plans to run any passenger tours as the works A stock units are retired. Chris W's earlier thoughts about the logistics are well observed. If you've had the fortune to see the Rail Adhesion Train in service (on the rare occasions when it stands long enough at a station to see inside) then it will be apparent that it long since ceased to be a passenger carrying vehicle. Alas I can't seem to upload a photo to this post to show this.
Jokingly we might speculate that there may be a niche market for a ride on the train whilst sitting on the floor or the Sandite equipment but it's not something we'd do. Sadly the last A stock tour was indeed on 29 September 2012. I'm sorry if you missed it.
To address what I suspect may be a follow up question for some: we won't be taking the Sandite train into our collection. We already have a DM car for static display - 5034. This will be the only unit preserved by LTM.
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
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Post by a60 on Mar 3, 2017 8:46:41 GMT
I wonder if Cravens Heritage might have an interest in saving one of the three. If funds are a bit tight, then they could always turn to crowdfunding or something of the sort. However, I quite agree that having seen 5110's interior from the platform - much work would be required to get it up to code.
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Post by philthetube on Mar 3, 2017 9:45:08 GMT
The Sandite car would go anyway, as the Rat is currently a 5 car unit, I would have thought that the other four cars , apart from being dirty would be serviceable, however underneath will be a different story.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 3, 2017 10:44:40 GMT
5112-5113 is still in Acton Works and hasn't done much since being withdrawn in July 2012.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 12:25:19 GMT
The A stock was such a massive part of so many of our lives it would be such a shame if some operational units were not retained, even if just mothballed for future heritage use. It would be great to see it in use for the Amersham heritage days for example (did they not do this once with a 4 car set??)
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Post by MoreToJack on Mar 3, 2017 12:40:35 GMT
As mentioned, the A stock ran (with the 1938 stock) in 2013 for one of the heritage days - I forget if it was Amersham and Rickmansworth.
The difficulty is that these are increasingly elderly trains, with all the problems of obsolescence that comes with. Heritage operations have to be financially viable - not necessarily turning a profit, but the benefits have to outweigh the costs. In an increasingly congested and over-capacity railway environment that becomes difficult - cancelling timetabled trains for a 'jolly' isn't politically acceptable nowadays, and nor should it be. The railway exists first and foremost to move people from A to B in the most efficient manner.
Other issues of course exist with regards to stabling arrangements (the engineers sidings at Neasden are needed for the replacement RATs!) - what depots connected to the Met and within the permitted routes for the A stock have capacity?
And then there's resignalling - I won't open that can of worms...!
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