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Post by Alight on May 24, 2022 23:23:09 GMT
A marked improvement! Thanks for sharing.
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Post by Alight on May 24, 2022 15:38:25 GMT
Are the new LED lights flush as per the unit they refreshed 10 years ago, or have they retained the horrible lamp shades?
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Post by Alight on Oct 4, 2021 18:13:27 GMT
Thank you, that is very interesting. It'll be interesting to see how they process the clips for the Jubilee line as well, as Celia's tone is slightly different. Interesting, have you witnessed ... mind the gap ... at London Bridge both NB and SB? The table I'm looking at only lists SB, but it does have at least one other anomaly... You are right, it is just the SB. I checked again today.
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Post by Alight on Sept 24, 2021 9:01:35 GMT
The wonders of modern technology!
It does make you wonder if some of the previous Celia recordings we've spoken about were tinkered with during post production? For instance, some of the phrases such as "please mind the gap between the train and the platform" (and indeed her recordings for the Jubilee line) sound considerably deeper to the extent some may think it's a completely different voice altogether. For now it remains a mystery, but your contact may know the answer!
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Post by Alight on Sept 20, 2021 11:29:06 GMT
That's helpful, thanks.
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Post by Alight on Sept 20, 2021 11:13:43 GMT
Whenever I’m on the central line and it comes into Wanstead, there is always an announcement telling people to “use the full length of the platform and let customers of the train first”. Could be Pauline in this instance and the way of telling is she says "it will be a.. central line train.. calling all stations to" before going into the use the full length and let customers off. She was relatively short-lived though; once Metronet ceased, the BCV stations with Pauline have been changed over to the legacy Tubelines system, voiced by Elinor Hamilton. This is what Henrietta Bass says, so could be her. The way of distinguishing is Henrietta has a more mature voice. In my view she is superior, but she is being phased out as some of her recordings date back to even the days of LRT... indeed I recently heard a reference to "no smoking at London Regional Transport stations" (or something along those lines) at Highbury & Islington! The way in which they splice and stitch the recordings together on the Voice Perfect system that uses her voice is so much better than the jumpy/pitchy/disjointed legacy Tubelines system.
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Post by Alight on Sept 20, 2021 9:46:43 GMT
I heard the new announcements this morning. As discussed already, they are all voiced by the new voice (with the exception of "this train terminates here. All change." which is still Celia), including some of the platforms at Kennington, depending on direction or travel / branch.
There is an "exit here for National rail services from Battersea Park" at Battersea Power Station. This is only played at the station and not on the approach.
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Post by Alight on Sept 20, 2021 9:06:04 GMT
I was down there this morning too. There was a choir singing The Jam's 'Going Underground' and everything!
A day or so ago I posted about there being a High Barnet / MHE destination bias for the branch. I can confirm from observations this morning (and I was down there for a good while) that there were no Edgware branch destinations. It was all High Barnet with the odd MHE.
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Post by Alight on Sept 17, 2021 18:34:06 GMT
That makes sense - thanks for explaining. I also recall seeing the odd East Finchley terminator during the AM peak.
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Post by Alight on Sept 17, 2021 16:43:08 GMT
Haven't off peak services been Edgware (via Charing Cross) & High Barnet (via Bank) for some years? Indeed, but I could have sworn someone posted on here recently that the distribution of the 5tph BPS originators specifically were all going towards High Barnet (and MHE), with presumably Edgware via CXs services still provided for by some of the Kennington originators. That being said, I cannot find this post so maybe I imagined it or it was deleted!
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Post by Alight on Sept 17, 2021 14:10:32 GMT
I think the original rumours were suggesting 5tph to MHE, but as others are saying, the timetable confirms this won't be the case. In fact, what's interesting is there appears to be a lack of Edgware branch in the distribution!
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Post by Alight on Sept 17, 2021 13:44:28 GMT
Maps (allegedly) being "confusing" for tourists is an assumption. Actually it's just a pretty lame excuse for not running the best possible service pattern. I don't think the confusion is limited to tourists - it's most passengers. We have a Tube map that shows a complete split (accentuated by the unusually wide interchange symbol at Kennington!) and then we have line diagrams showing a pecked section of line to denote through services. In reality, there won't be many through services - not enough to really justify making the diagrams appear overly fussy. Maybe I'm one for efficiency and simplicity, but I appreciate others may prefer a more complex diagram.
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Post by Alight on Sept 16, 2021 23:38:14 GMT
You're probably right. Also, maybe through services will come in handy next year during the temporary closure of most of the Bank branch.
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Post by Alight on Sept 16, 2021 20:20:48 GMT
Agreed, at an initial glance I instantly wondered whether or not they've broken any Beck rules... I'm guessing not if they went ahead and published it. That being said, I rather like its appearance - a lot 'sexier' than some of the previous mock ups of the Battersea branch awkwardly spurring off at a sharp right angle. extract from new Tube Map: Well, looking at the new map, there will be no way for Morden trains to run through to Charing Cross branch, and even the Kennington interchange will be a long walk between branches! And I thought Kennington station was to be unchanged except for a few new passages. ;-) Yet, the line diagrams still refer to through services to Morden during the peak... not that I think this should be a thing, as most regular users are used to changing at Kennington, so I don't see what good a few through trains every now and then will do... surely the benefit cannot outweigh inevitable confusion to tourists and the like as they try to get their head around the complexity of the Northern line?!
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Post by Alight on Sept 13, 2021 16:51:48 GMT
It now looks like all trains via Charing Cross travel to/from Battersea Power Station. No it doesn't. There are plenty of stations short of the end of the line where trains regularly terminate and no specific indication of that is shown on the in-train line diagrams.
Apologies if this has been asked already, but I thought the plan was to do away with the through trains to Morden from Kennington via CX once the Battersea branch opened? I thought the proposed frequency was for there to be a train to Battersea every 10 minutes (initially) and then run the rest of them via the Kennington loop?
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Post by Alight on Sept 9, 2021 23:02:15 GMT
According to an FOI request, the S Stock and 2009 stock announcements are managed by Global Radio Services Ltd.
Just going back to the topic of the Northern line updates specifically, I noticed they have added "please mind the gap between the train and the platform" on the approach to London Bridge (both northbound and southbound). They have used the existing Celia file for this.
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Post by Alight on Sept 3, 2021 8:35:13 GMT
The Bank announcement was amended as stated earlier to replace Docklands Light Railway with DLR. This aligns with current TfL practice. Anyone navigating with the Tube Map only sees DLR. Nowhere on that is it shown other than by the initials. Curiously, the standard practice was 'DLR' back when the previous version was recorded in 2015, so I am not sure why back then they used 'Docklands Light Railway'... I am guessing this was done in error. Still, I don't mind the new Bank announcement as the previous one sounded a little dreamy... I think we should all be grateful that this new voice sounds relatively similar to Celia, which means the whole series of Celia announcements can be retained. Better that than wiping the whole thing and starting afresh with Sarah Parnell. Mind you, I don't think there was ever a risk of it being Sarah, at least, as I don't think the supplier for legacy JNP trains (Ketech Systems Limited) use her; Sarah is used by the legacy BCV and SSL supplier.
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Post by Alight on Aug 31, 2021 10:19:21 GMT
I don't think the new voice is that bad. Sounds more or less like Celia. I am grateful they haven't started afresh with a new voice, but instead have retained as much of the older recordings as possible, with updates only where absolutely necessary. We had quite an interesting discussion on this in a previous thread: districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/31393/new-announcements-extension
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Post by Alight on Aug 3, 2021 18:21:24 GMT
I am still a little confused: was the 'international' mentioning at Waterloo always there and they have blindly copied the old script without using the opportunity to correct it? Or have they added in the international reference for these new recordings by accident? Either way, there clearly wasn't any quality control!
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Post by Alight on Aug 3, 2021 18:13:17 GMT
Was that not the second style of digital platform signs on LUL Indeed, that picture is the second style manufactured by Thorn, which in my view look a lot more streamlined than the original Northern line style - I say original, technically there was a style before that, which were the ones trialled at St. James's Park in 1981. The example photographed above as seen on the Bakerloo line doesn't have the 'futuristic' feel of other examples such as the one shown on page 3 of this edition of Undergound News, which has that flexible trunking at one end and then uses clear suspenders on the other end for that bit more finesse. Incidentally, these displays would have had the aeroplane symbol for Heathrow, prior to having to differentiate between T4 and T5. I also thought the Central line project DMIs were nice. The style must have fallen out of favour quite quite quickly though. When we suggested that font for the D78 Refurb, we got very much a flamethrower rejection from LU! Agree with the sentiment many of you have said about the Central line DMIs, particularly the contrasting green text. My only criticism would be the capitalisation of 'Mins' as it does look a bit ugly. Then again, I have an issue with 'mins' across the board on LU/DLR as it should really be 'min', which thankfully LO and buses adopt. The Central line variant is the ones with the "here" and "held" indications, correct? Or are they the Metronet type I am thinking of?
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Post by Alight on Jul 31, 2021 11:30:35 GMT
Thanks for the update. It sounds as though phase 1 is quite minimal then. I was expecting the lighting to be in scope; while not essential, I do think they'd look a lot better in flush (as per the LED trials a number of years back on one Central line unit) rather than the ugly 'trough' housing currently deployed.
Daft question, but what are 'direction of travel line maps'?
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Post by Alight on Jul 7, 2021 19:08:53 GMT
For the Elizabeth line announcements on the 95TS it is the "The next station is ... . Change here for ... ." and "This station is ... . Change here for ... ." that have new recordings. Only those and things for the NLE will have new audio. The rest are unchanged.Played amid the full suite the new ones are clearly by a different voice, but to me at least don't seem objectionable. In any case, differently voiced changes have been made before such as the addition of platform numbers in the interchanges at Camden, Euston and Kennington. Thanks for confirming and good to hear most of the original Celia recordings will live on! The variation you refer to for the changes to scripts at stations such as Euston was in fact voiced by Celia but at a different time; in hindsight they should have probably asked her to record those bits after refamiliarising herself with her original work so as to match the pitch! My thinking was these were recorded in the early-mid '00s around the same time she recorded the Jubilee line announcements, but were then never used (save for a few trains such as this one, which have since reverted back). Then an additional tranche (such as the new Bank recording) was done around 2015/16 when the system was updated, which also reused some of previously axed ones from the early-mid '00s I am guessing you've previewed them from a computer? How will they get the new updates onto the trains I wonder? Will someone have to go around and insert a new floppy disc(!), or are they loaded on by transmitting from a laptop directly onto each train via a cable? The same is true at Canada Water. My guess is that the recorded phrase was "London Overground replacement bus services" or something like that for when the ELL was closed, but that's just a guess. You're along the right lines! I recall during the ELL closure of used to play the original "Change here for the East London line" followed by a newly recorded phrase "replacement bus service" bodged on to the end.
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Post by Alight on Jul 7, 2021 11:13:20 GMT
Thanks t697, very insightful. Yes the audio recordings are done. No, I don't know who! Sounds fairly similar to the existing ones. I wonder if it is just the "Elizabeth line" phrase that sounds slightly different to the rest of the recordings, hence a similar feel? Or are you suggesting the whole set has been re-recorded by someone else? Another one that breaks the rules is West Hampstead of the Jubilee line, which says "National Rail services and London Overground" rather than the other way round! The way in which Celia says "London Overground" would have leant itself better to go before "National Rail services" as bodging it on the end sounds rhetorical!
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Post by Alight on Jul 6, 2021 13:18:18 GMT
Celia did not record the new announcements for the Battersea extension. You may think that they could just have someone else do the battersea extension (like the new announcements on the Central line including TFL rail which Sarah Parnell now does but the parts that stay the same is still Emma Clarke) but you have to remember that these announcements will be at all stations when they say “This train terminates at Battersea” and also the announcements will soon include Crossrail (refusing to call it Elizabeth Line) so sadly she will not be on the Northern line for much longer but she may still be on the Jubilee for a while. Is this for definite then? That's a real shame. I suppose she might have recorded 'Crossrail' back in 2015/16, but this would have been superseded by the the name change to 'Elizabeth line', mid-2016. On the subject of the Elizabeth line, it'll be interesting to see what ordering they go for for stations where there is both LU and Elizabeth line. At TCR, for instance, will it be "Change here for the Central and Elizabeth lines" (from a tourist's perspective, they're just two lines cut from the same cloth) or will it be "Change here for the Central line and the Elizabeth line" (so as to distinguish between the two TfL 'modes')? If the former, then presumably at stations such at Moorgate it'll end up being in amongst the alphabetical order: "Change here for the Circle, Elizabeth, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan lines..."
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Post by Alight on Apr 10, 2021 11:09:10 GMT
Just to add to your examples there, there is also the small tunnel at the very end of the Down Street siding, which links through to the Hyde Park Corner crossover. That's not to mention Down Street station itself, though the main beneficiaries of its signage and designated escape route are more likely to be the contractors working down there on the IMR as opposed a T/Op using the siding or indeed having to evacuate a train (I don't think there have been any recorded evacuations down there).
I suspect in the case of Somerleyton Road on the Victoria line, the T/Ops are more likely to leave the train by performing a track walk back to Brixton once the traction current is switched off. Certainly this is what happens on the Bakerloo line at E&C.
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Post by Alight on Apr 9, 2021 11:06:24 GMT
Thanks all for your informative responses and also the continuation of some of the interesting discussion about the Drayton Park - Finsbury Park tunnels - one thing's for sure, I really hear/feel the gust of air whenever I travel past this stretch on the Victoria line, as they serve as natural ventilation... arguably more effective than some of the purpose-built intermediate fan shafts, many of which you don't hear/feel when the train goes past them (maybe because the fans are switched off these days?) I know there were some complaints about the Pulross Road shaft when the fans were upgraded back in '09: brixtonblog.com/2019/12/resident-protest-sees-giant-brixton-fan-switched-off/?cn-reloaded=1In general the answer is very much no. However, there is of course the Netherton Road shaft which is setup as an escape location, and has always been so since day one. There’s a couple of other fan shafts on the Vic Line which I believe are set up for man access, though for security reasons it’s probably best I don’t post which ones. I’ve no idea what they actually contain (the ones concerned happen to be on the only section of Vic Line which I’ve never had the opportunity to explore at track level!), but going by what exists elsewhere I’d suggest it’s probably something like a small metal spiral staircase. The size of the head house will generally be for two reasons - firstly the tunnel fans are quite large, and secondly because the tower needs to be taken up to whatever is the prevailing roof level. Thanks North End. Without meaning to breech security myself, I note on the TfL Property Asset Database Map linked above by Quex, the Somerleyton road shaft in Brixton is labelled as emergency escape, perhaps for safety reasons because it is at the end of the running lines, and potentially for T/Ops to escape from there if they find themselves 'trapped' in the siding in the event a train terminates there? I don't believe there is an equivalent set up on the opposite end of the line at Walthamstow. On the topic of that Property Asset Database Map, unless there is a layer switched off that I am not aware of, it's a shame that many of the other lines aren't as detailed as the Victoria line is. For example the Victoria line sidings are displayed, complete with the emergency escape cross passages at the end of the sidings to connect with the mainline running tunnels. Whereas the Piccadilly line, for instance, lacks any such detail. -- For those interested, there's a useful diagram in the following ICE article entitled 'Squeezing the heat out of London's Tube', which shows where the shafts are and how they work: www.icevirtuallibrary.com/doi/pdf/10.1680/cien.2010.163.3.114?download=true
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Post by Alight on Apr 7, 2021 9:23:27 GMT
The Vic has a lot of cross passages. Some of these are intermediate fan shafts, however there’s also plenty of former construction sites where there might be a cross-passage or two complete with the remains of an infilled former construction shaft. Especially south of Victoria there’s quite a few. Thanks North End. For the intermediate fan shafts, do these include emergency escape up to the head-house? I'm always surprised by how big some of the head-house buildings are, particularly the one at the end of the running lines at Somerleyton Road.
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Post by Alight on Apr 6, 2021 20:22:06 GMT
Thank you very much. Going by the asset map, I suspect the opening I saw must have been the Pulross road shaft and the opening farther up must be the cross passage level with the top of Hubert street, which from a passing train appears to be currently lit up for some unknown reason!
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Post by Alight on Apr 6, 2021 19:21:17 GMT
The other day my Victoria line train waited outside the crossover on the southbound, as it quite often does while awaiting platform availability. On this occasion I happened to be standing at the first right-hand set of double doors in the fourth car in direction of travel; when peering through the window, the train on the adjacent northbound illuminated a cross passage. I wondered if this was the Pulross road shaft but I am not sure it is, as I'd have thought the opening for that is the one slightly farther up the line (which I've never stopped by but can be spotted because sometimes the light has been left on, though blink and you'll miss it!) Or does the Pulross road shaft have two openings (albeit roughly a train length apart?) If not, what is the purpose of this cross passage?
I have tried to see how these appear from a driver eye view in the following video: <<rincew1nd: video removed>>
There appears to be crossover/vent openings at: 27:22 (closer to Stockwell) 28:48 29:02
Unfortunately the video doesn't go all the way to Brixton, but my assumption is that 29:02 is the opening I spotted from on board the train from which I could see into the cross passage as the northbound train passed and illuminated it.
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Post by Alight on Feb 23, 2021 18:23:26 GMT
I believe the platform announcements you are referring to are spoken by Elinor Hamilton who is also the voice behind the automated Customer Service Update announcements amongst many others. Indeed. Unfortunately for Elinor, her service update announcements are so badly stitched together, they make me cringe every time. The installation of the Elinor Hamilton system across many LU stations has been at the expense of the superior 'Voice Perfect' system (voiced by Henrietta Bass), which - as the name suggests - is stitched together seamlessly. Notwithstanding how such clips are stitched together, in my view Henrietta's voice and diction carries far more gravitas and authority than that of Elinor's. Only a handful of stations have the 'Voice Perfect' system in place - off the top of my head these include Pimlico, Vauxhall and Highbury & Islington. As i know there is still one 95 with the original announcements and i think a complete redo of the announcements would be best since as you say the execution is worse since they kept the station but changed details however they could have executed it better without it sounding bodged I get the feeling the 2016 update used a combination of new recordings (presumably recorded in 2016) and recordings from the early '00s when some of the trains had a deeper variant of Celia - listen in at 0:22 here. It does make me wonder if Celia was charging by the word, because to my mind it would have been easier to record a lot of the sequences from scratch, such as what they have done for Bank. Unfortunately, Celia passed away last month. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Sad news. Fingers crossed she recorded the Nine Elms and Battersea announcements during the 2016 recording session so we can keep Celia on the Northern line for as long as possible. I actually believe the jubilee line is the only one which follows that style of announcements, i.e. it is the only one which does not state it is a "Jubilee line train to x" I have never quite understood why they retained the original announcer for the terminus rather than using Celia - does anyone know?
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