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Post by Alight on Apr 14, 2024 10:59:31 GMT
Hampstead does have a crossover 6A/6B to the north of the station, there is a rail gap on the approach to Golders Green. That's it! Sorry, I did receive some responses such as that from Seaeagle, but I meant not receiving "any answers" in the sense the mystery remained unsolved. I don't want to go off topic any further, but I did find it an interesting comparison to Hampstead, which clearly does have more flexibility farther ahead.
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Post by Alight on Apr 14, 2024 0:02:53 GMT
I've seen planned engineering work a year so ago see all NB trains terminated at Hampstead, and I believe in that instance the trains ran empty past the crossover north of Hampstead and then reversed via the crossover to the Hampstead SB platform. I believe this was due to the traction current beint off between GG and Edgware, meaning it was not possible to terminate at the former.
Incidentally, I still didn't get any answers in the Victoria line part of the forum as to why I was once on a Finsbury Park terminator, which tipped out and then proceeded empty on the northbound. The CSAs were poised ready for us on the platform and they had more of this kind to come. I took the next train, which was bound for Walthamstow. My question was similar to this one but the difference is Golders Green has a loop, whereas the Victoria line train would have had to pass the platforms at Seven Sisters in order to get to the depot (where presumably it was heading) so why not tip out at SS rather than the hassle of FB.
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Post by Alight on Apr 13, 2024 17:06:30 GMT
Agreed. They somehow aren't as noisy as other lines also. Or screechy/whiny like the Northern line!
It's a plain yet nostalgic sound compared to the more artificial-sounding S stock motors, for instance.
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Post by Alight on Mar 14, 2024 0:11:44 GMT
'How The New Overground Map Colours Were Chosen' from Geoff Marshall: Interesting response to why the orange wasn't retained, so they would then only need 5 additional colours. The interviewee says it is so there wasn't bias shown to any one of the listing LO lines, however I'd have thought the obvious contender would be the Windrush line, given its ELL history. The interviewee also said it was good to have six lines change colours in one unified change. I am glad the justification wasn't merely because of the orange being used to represent the modal brand; this would have been easily counterweighted by the fact the Central line is in Underground red. The question about "parallel lines" being used for the non-Underground modes on the Tube map (and now the National Rail map too). The justification was these represent longer distances / lower frequencies, but this isn't necessarily true for the tram or DLR. The reality is they're using this technique for all the non-Underground modes, regardless of what type of rail they are, which is is a nod to the former 'Tube' focus of the map, whereby all non-Underground modes are treated as 'other'. However, the consensus these days is the "Tube Map" does not revolve around LU any more than any other mode and why should it when there are a range of TfL services included. The Metropolitan line has different stopping patterns and also covers a vast difference - could this not have parallel lines? Yes it is an LU line, but the interviewee is claiming the parallel lines help the user differentiate between service type e.g. bigger trains, frequency etc. The end of the videos debates merits and pitfalls of the DLR being split out in the future, acknowledging that the in-car diagrams already differentiate and maybe one day the full Tube map could be reviewed again.
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Post by Alight on Mar 4, 2024 21:40:39 GMT
Yes, he is the in-house audio/video person for TfL so it is no surprise he was behind it.
I suspect they will bring Sarah Parnell back to re-record all the Tube ones, and sadly this will probably mean the Jubilee line anomaly too - for instance, she was used to re-record (and frankly butcher) the Canning Town announcements all for the sake of promoting City Hall.
The Northern line currently doesn't mention the Overground and so may just avoid it, however they could re-record Euston using Elinor Hamilton if they really wanted to. The Piccadilly line doesn't have any interchanges with LO, so Julie Berry won't be required.
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Post by Alight on Mar 3, 2024 10:36:14 GMT
Interesting, I've never spotted this at Bounds Green. I too would be interested to find out more. Perhaps a mod could move this post to Station Related Matters where it might receive a bit more attention?
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Post by Alight on Feb 16, 2024 13:19:12 GMT
I suppose the other thing we need to consider here are the colours themselves. I wonder why they could not have kept orange for one of the routes - perhaps for the Windrush line, given that line was orange even back in the days of the ELL?
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Post by Alight on Feb 16, 2024 0:47:43 GMT
Social media is a terrible place to take feedback as it tends to favour angrier and more emotive opinions as an algorithm to boost engagement. Plus, not every Londoner uses social media, and those that do may not use it for political and news discussions. I have also seen a great deal of misinformation on social media around the topic, so everyone's views may not be properly informed. Combine that with the fact that people are generally wary of any change, and the internet was guaranteed to get angry at any names chosen that represent London's history and cultural diversity. The £6m figure is mostly for new signage, new maps, new announcements, and educating the public about the changes, rather than purely deciding the names. You make a very good point there indeed. The reason I mentioned social media specifically is because there is no other form of consultation for one to have their say based on the proposed options (I'm not counting any small-scale focus groups they may have held last year). So really, the only way TfL will be able to gauge reaction from their announcement would be to read forums such as this one, media opinion pieces and social media - not ideal, I realise. The £6mn figure is absolutely for the things you've mentioned, but the point is not everyone thinks they should have been renamed in the first place. Or perhaps they could have gone for cost-effective alternatives such as the NYC-style lettering, which would have only required a few letter signs going up, with no need to replace every sign and map. The lettering option has the advantage it is more precise for each route; the six line names doesn't solve the fact there are multiple branches.
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Post by Alight on Feb 15, 2024 19:21:37 GMT
If the whole purpose is to simplify things, I can't help but wonder how tourists are going to navigate a what is going to be an even more confusing tube map. Not to mention the new colours duplicate existing ones. Conversely, I do of course appreciate the arguments against the existing arrangement of long-winded route names.
Today I have spoken to a cross range of people from different political leanings, "woke" or "not woke", and the general sentiment has been negative / taking the p*ss out of the proposals (particularly the Mildmay geographic screw up!). The £6mn has been the most shocking part of it. I am hoping TfL are going to treat this period as a de facto consultation and take on board the feedback across social media at least today. It's not too late...
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Post by Alight on Feb 15, 2024 11:18:49 GMT
The purpose of naming the lines was to improve wayfinding and make the system easier to use. I don’t see how these names do that over the geographic names that should have been adopted. Indeed, and it'll be even more confusing still when people see an Overground roundel in orange branding and then enter the station with the new line colour branding (the colours being almost the same as existing tube line colours). The average tourist doesn't care if it is Underground, Overground, DLR or Elizabeth line - they're just "tube lines" to untrained. So you're going to end up with more layers of complexity differentiating between Overground and Underground and then within that the different lines, yet the "Elizabeth line" has its own roundel... Yes, us nerds understand the differentiation, but the average person doesn't. As for "DLR", most people don't know what the letters stand for anymore and probably couldn't care less if it was light rail or metro! Anyhow, with no public consultation, we are where we are. I suppose if money was no object, the four aforementioned roundels would be replaced with one generic "London Transport" one and then have the individual line identities within it. That may simplify things a tad under the line identity model being proposed, but won't resolve the issue that we've run out of line colours!
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Post by Alight on Feb 15, 2024 9:11:57 GMT
There is no public consultation in the traditional sense for this project You are absolutely right. Where is the consultation? It is going to be sparking a lot of questions, debate and critique today but the decision has already been made... at the cost of £6+mn.
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Post by Alight on Jan 11, 2024 13:52:03 GMT
Can we just keep the Goblin Line? Please??? The only problem here is the tautology! If the "lin" is short for "line" then calling it the "Goblin line" will equate to "Gospel Oak to Barking line line"!
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Post by Alight on Dec 19, 2023 16:20:06 GMT
I suspect that's what they'll end up doing, not least because Adrian is in house so readily available to update messaging.
In terms of other lines, notwithstanding "see it, say it, sorted", only the Jubilee line used a male and female combo between 1997 and 2017.
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Post by Alight on Dec 19, 2023 13:27:33 GMT
TfL statement:
"These announcements are temporary and are being used for testing purposes on the refurbished Central line trains. Therefore, please be advised that the contents may not reflect our latest customer language and/or insights as they have been recorded for use over a limited time period. We are also actively exploring the use of a female voice for permanent use on the refurbished Central line trains, which will better reflect our customer research findings."
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Post by Alight on Dec 19, 2023 0:04:56 GMT
Unlikely. The Emma recordings were done in 2003 and so Ongar would have long since been gone.
This new Ongar announcement is merely a manually-selectable "Easter egg" goody from Adrian Hiatt, the voiceover. Sidenote, there's no guarantee it will still be him voicing the trains following this trial period because TfL may act on the feedback to have a female voice instead, which I agree with.
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Post by Alight on Dec 13, 2023 9:08:22 GMT
The train was most likely going to be held in the tunnel for a long period, so that's why it would have been terminated at Finsbury Park. Well the following Walthamstow-bound train I boarded was certainly stop, start, stop, start all the way to Seven Sisters, so I am not sure the train ahead would have been held in the tunnel for too long, it would have just been part of the block back of other trains. I don't see anywhere on the track layouts how it could have accessed the depot directly without going via Platform 4.
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Post by Alight on Dec 12, 2023 17:17:58 GMT
We used platform 4 on the northbound today. I wonder if this was due today's points failure at Seven Sisters.
The train I was on originally terminated at Finsbury Park and then ran empty northbound. There were 2x CSAs at the platform to make for a quick dispatch. We were told the train terminated there due to the late running, but wasn't clear initially why it couldn't have just tipped us off at Seven Sisters and continued to the depot from there. Now I am thinking perhaps the points issue meant the regular NB platform at SS wasn't accessible.
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Post by Alight on Dec 11, 2023 10:39:52 GMT
Nobody hired 'her'; it is a text-to-speech voice designed by Acapela Group Babel Technologies S.A. for Siemens. True but the text to speech 'voice' is derived from multiple recordings of a specific real person. Where are you hearing the sample announcement?
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Post by Alight on Dec 11, 2023 10:27:15 GMT
Right you are. Probably consistent for whole trainset.
Well even if Michael Meech was only used for the demonstrations on the Hainault loop, he was to return to the Jubilee some 10 years later!
It is said that Michael was with London Transport for years and was the voice of syndicated travel news back when this was supplied directly from LT itself. So it is possible he was asked to do mock-up announcements for the new prototype trains before they deployed the female voice.
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Post by Alight on Dec 10, 2023 23:06:12 GMT
A bit of a long shot as I'm sure only a small minority of members on here will have rode on the 1986 stock when they were briefly in service on the Jubilee line for a year in the late '80s.
The clip of the stock at Aldwych has a female DVA in use:
Meanwhile, the clip of the stock on the Central line has a male voice in use (Michael Meech?):
Does anyone remember if the DVA was a mixture of male and female along the route? Or perhaps female on the green and male on the red? (No evidence of what was on blue). A third reason could be the male voice was used on the mock up and then they went for female?
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Post by Alight on Dec 10, 2023 22:20:27 GMT
I think when T2&3 is set as a destination it announced on the DVA "This is a Piccadilly service to Heathrow Terminals 2&3 via Terminal 4" as opposed to "... Heathrow Terminal 4 and Terminals 2&3" which is the standard format based on a Cockfosters - Cockfosters programming? I remember this being mentioned on DD a while back. I thought it was as early as the late '70s. Any case, even when they do impromptu turn backs at Wood Green these days, it does take a while. The Wood Green siding sand drag has just been removed, before an arrestor for 2024TS is installed. That was the crew toilet in my day, if no relief crew was available, as instructed by the Inspector. I believe a chemical facility was provided in more recent times! You're saying the sand drag was used as a toilet? I know is an actual staff toilet at Wood Garden station via a cross passage linking both platforms. This is for Physical Needs Relief. I've seen drivers on the westbound at least leave the train for PNR on occasion. What does an "arrestor" do?
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Post by Alight on Dec 10, 2023 22:11:32 GMT
It looks as though the emergency instructions have been updated too. The old ones were white text on a green background, which all looked rather dated and difficult to read. The new ones are clearer in the standard blue background with white text.
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Post by Alight on Dec 5, 2023 21:09:12 GMT
Let’s be honest, everyone is going to hate his announcements. I’m sorry but he sounds really nerdy and goofy. I tend to agree - his sound overly exaggerated, almost Jon Briggs like. For those who don't know, Jon Briggs used to voice the male TTS voice of Siri, and was even the voiceover on The Weakest Link. There was a time and a place for it, but I'm not sure the Central line is one of them, not least because he's replaced a voice loved by many. Let's not forget Emma was selected following 18 month's worth of focus groups; she was chosen for her neutral, breathy and fresh tones and nicknamed "Marilyn". I suppose it all comes down to personal opinion and preference. I'd perhaps care less if he replaced the equally-as-exaggerated Sarah Parnell announcements on the Victoria line. "This station has STEP-FREE ACCESS "
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Post by Alight on Dec 5, 2023 20:51:27 GMT
I notice there are now two "the next station" is announcements: one just after departure and the other on the approach. The latter gives more detail.
The announcements are clearer for sure from an audio perspective, but I do miss Emma Clarke's. His sound almost too performative, whereas hers felt effortless.
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Post by Alight on Nov 19, 2023 17:38:54 GMT
So will Adrian ultimately be replacing Emma Clarke completely?? Yes that is the plan. I suppose he has the monopoly now he the in-house announcement manager - needs to put himself to use! It's a shame as I love the existing Central line announcements - they are very clear and do the trick. A stark contrast to the overbearing '09 stock announcements.
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Post by Alight on Oct 21, 2023 23:52:15 GMT
On a similar note, do trains still stop short at Hillingdon? I recall many of the boards used to display "Uxbridge/Hillingdon" (or vice versa, I forget) and I think this was to cover all basis in case a train terminated one stop short at late notice?
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Post by Alight on Aug 13, 2023 0:52:53 GMT
Thank you for sharing the photos.
Ostensibly 'wasted space' above the single line of LED, so much so I reckon they could have had a screen double that size in LCD. I know we've discussed this before but just saying.
Also I spot an old speaker, which means I take it the replacement speakers either haven't been added yet or fell out of scope.
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Post by Alight on Jul 9, 2023 19:17:07 GMT
You are right, the announcements seem to very clear even without the doors open. On that basis, for once the on-train manually-selectable "let customers off the train first please" announcement will be of use; the people it's intended for (i.e. those standing on the platform) will actually be able to hear it! It sounds like the male who provides secuirty messages on the Northern line trains. Yes this has been mentioned already.
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Post by Alight on Jul 8, 2023 8:18:30 GMT
Indeed and the worst were the newer additions of the Sarah Parnell announcements, which could barely be heard at the best of times. This is also the case for where they've retrofitted her at a couple of Jubilee line stations. I am so glad they haven't continued to use Sarah on these modified Bakerloo line trains - good riddance. My gosh, that sounds terrible, and just does not seem to flow smoothly like announcements on other lines. Indeed, considering they're new announcements, they seem very disjointed. I wonder if they are text to speech? I know that's the aspiration for the new Piccadilly line announcements so that LU no longer have to worry about voiceovers passing away, becoming unavailable etc. That being said, if he is the "see it, say it, sorted" man then maybe not. Another point I'd make is I am not keen on this "please mind the step down" announcement - I am hoping this won't be played at every station else the novelty will wear off quick! There was never a specific "mind the gap" announcement made at Regents Park, so why now?
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Post by Alight on Jul 7, 2023 9:59:27 GMT
Yes, male only is a first. I wonder why they've replaced the announcements entirely, when I thought the plan was the retain Emma? The scope was the DMIs, I didn't think this extended to DVA.
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