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Post by theblackferret on Aug 28, 2014 21:55:57 GMT
The train describers at Earl's Court and other SSL stations will have to wait for the new signalling system. Is Earls Court not listed? If so, is there an obligation to maintain the describer in a usable state? In the context of a multi-million (?billion?) pound project, a bit of wiring to interface the describer with the new system (in parallel, of course, with the new describers) shouldn't break the bank. Come to think of it there can't be many left - I know Stepney still has one, presumably there are a few more knocking about at quieter stations. Yes, it's grade II. This is English Heritage's general guide to that: How will listing affect me?
Listing is not a preservation order, preventing change. Listing is an identification stage where buildings are marked and celebrated as having exceptional architectural or historic special interest, before any planning stage which may decide a building's future.
Listing does not freeze a building in time, it simply means that listed building consent must be applied for in order to make any changes to that building which might affect its special interest. Listed buildings can be altered, extended and sometimes even demolished within government planning guidance. The local authority uses listed building consent to make decisions that balance the site's historic significance against other issues such as its function, condition or viability. Find out more from our Planning Advice page.
I suspect from that, and having worked for EH in the past, you might be advised to take this matter up with TfL pretty soon and see what their plans are. I'm with you about their preservation being a must, so if we can get more details about their plans, we might be able to let them know the historic importance, because I can see an argument being presented that these are outdated, inefficient and can't be worked in parallel with modern digital describers.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 28, 2014 14:52:10 GMT
I thought the whole point of the passimeter was that it doubled as a ticket selling booth and barrier. Why would there be a separate barrier? Not necessarily. On stations that had ticket machines and passimeters, you often bought your ticket and then proceeded to another barrier to get it checked. I can give two former C&SLR stations as examples. Oval had this layout and was a really crowded station. The next station up, Kennington required passengers to buy their ticket and then either present it at the lifts or at the ticket collection box at the top of the emergency stairs. Yes, having attended on every possible playing day(Thurs-Tues)of one Oval Test or another between 1957 and 1976, I would say crowded is the right word. Both for exiting and entering.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 28, 2014 14:47:50 GMT
And many stations had a Finlays Tobacco booth that could generate queue's/obstructions. And those without Findlays, invariably had an Angel Botibol's kiosk or booth, newspapers and tobacconists to the many.
Also, just as 'handily' placed to make peak period travel an 'experience', which today might be described as 'character-building'.
Hopefully, neither selling Black Twist shag tobacco still, sworn by my late Mum(who smoked Du Maurier)to be the worst smell she ever experienced, albeit on a tram from Camberwell; though I should think it would have be even dandier on a packed Tube carriage!
On the subject, although very much tidied and refurbished, does Clapham Common still have just the one narrow Island platform?
And Goldhawk Road hasn't changed much-wonder if the weed on the top left of the Eastern Entrance(in the daily quiz recently)was there in the 50's & 60's as well.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 28, 2014 10:33:51 GMT
Of course, they would look very changed to anyone coming straight from the 50's because the automatic gates dominate the smaller spaces. They certainly are different. There is generally a lot more space now. 1950s/1960s booking offices were very much like an assault course, but you had problems before you even got into the station. There was a newspaper seller at the entrance of almost every station taking money and giving change to little groups of passengers, which sometimes caused more of an obstruction than today's freebie distributors. There were three evening papers in the fifties (Evening Standard, Evening News and The Star) sometimes with different vendors selling each one. Sometimes there were even flower sellers, and the person making a selection invariably stood on the side of the stall that caused the greatest obstruction to the station entrance. On entering the booking hall you almost certainly had to push past the people who were queuing at banks of wooden telephone boxes positioned around the walls and past others trying to get tickets from the rows of upright single fare machines that dominated the middle of the floor. You probably had to stop there to buy a ticket yourself.* Regular travellers knew which ticket machines to use, but others had to walk up and down the banks reading the names of the stations on each machine until they found the one they wanted, which was not easy if people were crowding round the machines trying to be the next to use it (the layout did not make it easy to queue or to find the machine that you wanted on a strange station in a crowd). Once you got through all this, you were confronted by the bulky passimeter(s), usually bounded on each side protective wooden barriers placed there to prevent the incoming passengers from knocking over those trying to buy a ticket at the window. Then and only then did you reached the final barrier with its wooden ticket collectors boxes that was stretched across the floor roughly where the ticket barriers are today. With no mobile phones, people often visited tube stations just to make phone calls (there was a good supply of phone boxes inside stations and they were more likely to work). Add to this the fact that there were no travel cards, although you could get a station to station season ticket in the 1950s if you filled in an application form. People therefore used tickets, but the equipment required to supply them and the struggle trying to get them during peak times meant that 1950s/1960s booking halls were certainly 'booking halls' and not 'circulating areas'. * Except on very rare occasions, LT Underground tickets could not be used on the buses or from different stations. A lot of regular travellers therefore bought single tickets so that they could vary their journey if necessary, which is why the booking halls were so busy. Yes, and the three different sellers for the three different London evenings persisted elsewhere. Like on Greenwich High Road, nowhere near a railway station. When I was young, I was regularly sent down by Dad to buy all three for the classified football results of a Saturday evening.
As this happened after we'd already heard the results on Sports Report, you may wonder why. I can't tell you!!
The single fare machines were like the computers of the day-big and very boxy indeed. I liked them, because when they worked they were excellent. Unfortunately, in the rush hours especially, 30 or 40 consecutive passengers using the same one was often the case, with less than efficient output occurring for those at number 29 or so in the queue. Otherwise known as a foul-up in the trade.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 27, 2014 22:05:30 GMT
Well now, my wife watched that series and remembers that episode! Especially the padded cell, the dimensions portrayed making her grateful she'd only commuted on the Northern Line between Kings Cross & Bank long after they might have been about.
She wondered at the time how authentic that carriage was, I'd completely forgotten about it, but she's happy that my alleged 'probably quite' at the time was fairly accurate.
I must say HG Wells was a little over-imaginative with Lord Of The Dynamos, as he placed the generating station in my neck of the woods, Camberwell. Still, he did give us War of The Worlds, The Time Machine etc.
A couple more-Agatha Christie's The Man In The Brown Suit(1924);the mystery begins with a passenger's death at Hyde Park Corner station.
Tobias Hill's Underground(1999)involves South Kentish Town a great deal.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 27, 2014 21:32:41 GMT
Yes, Grade II listed, as it's the only surviving original(ie 1890) CSLR T Phillips Figgis design, complete with faux cupola. Which-well, we have a resident expert here who will tell us what the cupola was for. Until the right person comes along, I can add a few facts to what BF has already said about Kennington. There have been some alterations, but it is a pretty close external representation of the first C&SLR stations. The original lifts were hydraulic, so there was only the need for minimal overhead equipment. As built, the dome was therefore pretty much decorative, complete with a weather vane on the top. The design came into its own when electric lifts were installed and there was a greater need for space. At around that time, some horrible utilitarian extensions with access doors were added to the side of the dome. These were finally removed when the station was 'restored' in the 1980s. The restoration involved a complete re-cladding and adding some new woodwork, particularly at the points where those ghastly extensions were taken out. Thanks, I knew you'd provide the full and correct facts!
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 27, 2014 19:08:27 GMT
Another one nearly on the map is 1957's Night of the Demon. No, it isn't actually Clapham Common whence Niall MacGinnis meets a bad end-it's Brickett Wood Station, Herts. But, the interesting thing, listen to SW trains EMU's today and they still, when starting to accelerate away from a station stop, produce exactly the same opening notes as the demon's appearance introduces to the film. The EE507 traction motors still found under SWT's Class 455s were originally developed for the 4SUBs in 1936, so that is not as unlikely as it might seem. (There is a programme about to start to replace the motors with ac ones - the supply will of course still be dc!) There were of course no electric trains at Brickett Wood in 1957, but film soundtracks often muck about with such things. (BBC Newsreel footage at one time clearly had a "train" soundtrack which was stuck on any train footage they had available, be it a "Western" diesel or a TGV: unfortuantely it was the distinctive whistle of a class 40 at idle, which made for some very incongruous images. Thanks-it's very nice to know it actually could have been the case. So, we might as well all see the end! You might notice the lack of a 3rd rail at Brickett Wood in that, so quite how Nial MacGinnis ends up smoking by the track..................!
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 27, 2014 18:56:38 GMT
Rickmansworth avoided the 90s update Isn't there a preservation order on Kennington, as its basically as originally built? Yes, Grade II listed, as it's the only surviving original(ie 1890) CSLR T Phillips Figgis design, complete with faux cupola.
Which-well, we have a resident expert here who will tell us what the cupola was for.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 27, 2014 18:35:33 GMT
Caledonian Road & Russell Square(albeit with newer but not ultra-modern lifts).
Both are very much cleaner than they were then, but are basically unaltered.
Helped by both being Grade II listed as well as excellent examples of Leslie Green's work.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 27, 2014 16:09:41 GMT
A couple of others which I can't name.
Both are British black & white B-movies of the 1950's and both with Tube shoot-ups very much modelled on the sewer shoot-up in The Third Man. Apart from the lack of a visibly-ginger and white station cat!
In one, the villain steps out to finish the hero, who's slumped against the tunnel wall with a bullet in his shoulder, but the villain didn't consult the timetables, so............
In the other, it's the villain that's winged, but somehow manages to board the Tube train which stops when it sees figures on the track & then accelerates away again!
Anybody help? I can remember both clear as day, because of the ridiculous endings to the shoot-outs.
And, for fans of Ealing Films, guess which budding youth actor from 1947, who in that year starred alongside Alistair Sim(as the editor of a boys' newspaper) AND Jack Warner(as a cackling greengrocer with a dark alter-ego-I kid you not ), was another leading lady-chaser astronaut in Fire Maidens From Outer Space------------------?
Yes, you knew, Harry Fowler, another Renaissance romantic leading light-and a full two years before The Army Game, too!!
Plus, yes, Susan Shaw turns up as Hestia, the friendliest of the 'Daughters of the New Atlantis', only she is interested in American leader of the space flight, Anthony Dexter.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 27, 2014 14:43:25 GMT
Pimlico, vide Wiki: The outdoor scenes were actually shot about a mile away in Lambeth and not in Pimlico. A set was built on a large Second World War bombsite just south of the Lambeth Road at the junction of Hercules Road. Thankyou - that had always confused me - I had assumed it was filmed somewhere under the Brighton lineas that passes through Pimlico (although I guessed a site in Battersea was used) and that the trains seen on the viaduct were mainly PUL/PAN stock, but they didn't look quite right. I'll look at them again now I know we're on the SWML. Trams are seen in one scene - I don't think they ever got to Pimlico Still, at least the set was a good replica. However, at least one external shot was taken using a real G stock train polishrail.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/film-competition-%e2%80%93-part-11/#commentsThanks for that-the process shots emphasise just what a good job they did do on the set replica. Ealing Films' reputation was well-deserved. And that brings me to It Always Rains On Sunday(1947), Jack Warner as the cop pursuing escaped convict John McCallum, whilst the ex-apple of John's eye, bairmaid Googie Withers, has problems with her eldest daughter(Susan Shaw) being attracted to the charms of a handsome gigolo/musician. Whether the problems are with the unsuitability of such a romance for her daughter, or the unsuitability of Sydney Tafler+(honest!)a year before HE appeared in Passport to Pimlico for that sort of role is immaterial, because the film is based in Bethnal Green and has a climax on the rails, about which reelsites.com tells us: The climax to the chase at the end was filmed at Temple Mills Marshalling Yards, Leyton. In those days they were a mish mash of various yards but were completely modernised in the 1950s. Not much left now, and the new Eurostar depot has been built on the site.So, at least the right bit of London & nearly on the Tube, although don't take Wiki too literally on this about Jack Warner effecting an arrest to finally end the chase. Afraid the film version has the obvious and unpleasant cliché you expect when someone goes on the train tracks without authority, as the moderators would be the first to echo as a warning, I'm sure Another one nearly on the map is 1957's Night of the Demon. No, it isn't actually Clapham Common whence Niall MacGinnis meets a bad end-it's Brickett Wood Station, Herts. But, the interesting thing, listen to SW trains EMU's today and they still, when starting to accelerate away from a station stop, produce exactly the same opening notes as the demon's appearance introduces to the film. We stayed at Twickenham 18 months ago & our Travelodge was right by the station. This sound was so familiar to my wife & I, we couldn't put a finger on it, but after three days, the penny dropped and we suddenly realised where we'd heard it before. The film would doubtlessly have played around a little with a tape recording of it, before the finished soundtrack was laid down, but that was the definite source of it. += To be fair to Sydney Tafler, he did get to appear in Criterion Films' 1956 magnum opus Fire Maidens From Outer Space and therein not only manage to 'pull' from a veritable bevy of beautiful but naice & proper English Schoolgirls(finishing school, style!) who originate from the lost continent of Atlantis, but pitches his woo on their home, the un-named 13th moon of Jupiter, the surface of which satellite bears an extraordinary resemblance to the Hog's Back off the A3 at Guildford.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 27, 2014 11:52:33 GMT
Off the top of my head, surely there was a Bulldog Drummond film in which he rode down the emergency staircase of a tube station on a tea-tray, followed by shots of standard stock? Also did not Passport to Pimlico have a scene where a Distict (?) line train is stopped for a customs check at the Pimlico border; although I cannot remember if this was a studio set. No-one mentioned Lord of the Dynamos by H G Wells (1894), which he based on a visit to the C&SLR generating station at Stockwell or the TV series in which an episode centres around a train accident in the tunnel near to King William Street station............ Pimlico, vide Wiki: The outdoor scenes were actually shot about a mile away in Lambeth and not in Pimlico. A set was built on a large Second World War bombsite just south of the Lambeth Road at the junction of Hercules Road. This has now been built on by 1960s municipal flats; however, the buildings on the junction of Hercules Road and Lambeth Road can still be recognised from the film as can the railway bridge going over Lambeth Road, particularly from the scenes where food is thrown to the "Burgundians".
And, from the Grauniad in 2012: Still, at least the set was a good replica. Think Bulldog Jack(1935)is the Drummond film. This is set on British Museum station(CL), but set is the operative word, as it's Bloomsbury Station. Thank you, JE Connor & London's disused Underground Stations for this: As for the man from Bromley, we are still working on the TV series & King William Street; can state it was not the awful efforts on the Invisible Man in 1958/9: in which Johnny Scripps provides the body under the crepe bandages, nor the David McCullum revival(1975-6), in which he should have adopted that disguise strategy to hide his embarrassment!
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 27, 2014 10:10:49 GMT
Edgar Lustgarten to you, mate!
Here's a link to the entire series of Scotland Yard mysteries out of Merton Park.
edgarL
Remember the allegedly awful mistake in Isadora, as Glenda Jackson pulls into a terminus simply called "London"? Well, the first ECR terminus at Shoreditch was originally called-London, from about 1842-44! Just 80 years out of date in the film.
Would have been intriguing if Chaucer's Canterbury Tales could have started on the Bakerloo Line at Lambeth North before reaching Charing Cross for the Canterbury train?!
Back on subject completely, Aldwych also features as a backdrop in Superman IV, The Krays & Patriot Games.
Meanwhile, Iris Murdoch's 1975 'A World Child' has a very evocative passage about the two remaining station buffets on Underground platforms.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 27, 2014 9:30:48 GMT
According to the Subterranea Brittanica site(source Nick Catford), BR original proposed to close Lea Bridge on 1 October 1984, but after receiving several objections, this was deferred(my underlining) until 8 July 1985.
The Richmond <====> North Woolwich service was electrified and commenced as that in May 1985's timetable. Tottenham from North Woolwich remained a diesel service and there were 4 morning/3 evening services through Lea Bridge from Stratford Main for the 8 weeks from then until Lea Bridge's closure to passengers.
The question is also when would the map have been prepared & proof read. I suspect it was before the closure was formally confirmed by whoever the Sec. of State was then-could that have been dear old Ceecil Parkinson?-otherwise Lea Bridge would have a dagger or star against it on the map.
Anyway, as this map was on the Tube, and Lea Bridge wasn't, any footnotes on the original pocket-map were unlikely to be bothered about by LT staff who were not advertising connections with a BR station.
I'd suspect it went up in May 1985, just possibly June, but not July, simply because of when the tourists start flooding in to London. That is who the map is primarily for, and with less of them around at non-peak times, there would be a better chance of putting it up unhindered by hundreds of our wonderful Japanese friends, who love to photograph anything to do with London & especially its' transport system.
And who can blame them?
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 26, 2014 20:28:02 GMT
If so, what would the opening Autumn 1986 station be? At a guess based on Antje's image - Heathrow Terminal 4? It did open in April 1986 I believe, but it may have been early? According to Wiki: The station opened on 12 April 1986 to serve the then recently opened Heathrow Terminal 4Splendid, thank you, tut!
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 26, 2014 20:19:06 GMT
According to the National Library of Australia, if that is Thirkell Cooper designers I see on the latest photos, this might be the original source of our map: Author
Network SouthEast
Scale Scale indeterminable.
Description SouthEast, [England] : Network SouthEast, [1985?] 2 maps on 1 sheet : both sides, col. ; 36 x 51 cm. on sheet 42 x 62 cm., folded to 21 x 9 cm.
Full contents Title on map: Network SouthEast / designed by Allan Cooper. On verso: London connections / designed by Cooper Thirkell.
Notes
Both maps show suburban railroad and subway lines diagrammatically.
Panel title.
Includes Customer information.
Maps of SouthEast and London showing principal interchange stations, ships, hovercrafts, jetfoils, stations for airports and new station opening Autumn 1986.
"CAS/PO3258"
Subjects Railroads - England - London - Maps. | Railroads - England - London metropolitan area - Maps. | Subways - England - London - Maps. | Subways - England - London Metropolitan Area - Maps.
Time Coverage 1985
Other authors/contributors Cooper, Allan | Thirkell, Cooper
Also Titled
Network SouthEast
London connections If so, what would the opening Autumn 1986 station be? The other interesting part is why Lea Bridge Station didn't get blocked off, as in this 1981 example: Intriguing!
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 26, 2014 15:18:47 GMT
Yes, the pre-1981 service(Mon-Fri & Saturdays)was restored in 1991 on SLL.
Even if it's 'only' 1986, it's still over 25 years old, and no mean artefact-hope it gets back to the museum, as, if you are correct, it's from one of those at-the-crossroads dates, immediately before Thameslink, H & C being branded as such(which is exactly what it was called when built) and a separate line, etc.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 26, 2014 14:27:49 GMT
[quote source="/post/393460/thread" timestamp="1409045692" I notice the South London Line and Queens park - Stonebridge Park - (Harrow?) is shown as peak hours only: when was the offpeak service restored? It seems to go beyond Stonebridge Park, which would date it after 1984 (or possibly pre-1982) The Stonebridge Park <======> Harrow service was withdrawn September 1982 & restored June 1984-LUL services, that is.
This, from Mike Horne's The Bakerloo Line book, is what the 1983 map showed of that service and Queens Park to Stonebridge, for which service reduction to peak-hours only, I'm so far unable to find a date:
However, the WHOLE Stonebridge Park <=====> Harrow shows on 1985's map as peak-hours only & the entire Stonebridge Pk. <===============> Watford Junction section is on 1977's map as peak-hours only. Sorry I can't locate other years at present.
As for SLL, the peak-hours Mon-Fri only service ceased in May 1991 ,having gone into that mode in May 1984(from the Middleton Press album on SLL-Vic Mitchell/Keith Smith), Sunday trains ceased 1976, Saturday trains 1981.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 26, 2014 9:34:52 GMT
It is-great photos.
Aldwych on there, so must be pre-1994.
No City Thameslink station or even services, which started in 1987, so must pre-date that.
If we can get another go further east, if Blake Hall is still on the Central, it's pre-1981 & if Hackney Wick is not on the overground lines, then it's pre-1979.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 24, 2014 15:06:22 GMT
Yes, but I think the ambience of a station is there for us all.
The only thing precluding everybody from grasping it is the time problem.
One thing about taking early retirement in December 2008 was that I had more time to make journeys, to linger on a station and contemplate, and to remember all the past impressions of them, which were lodged as brief, hurried glimpses when I, too, had to hustle and bustle to work.
Which, of course, also gave me an excuse for doing naff all once I got to work. As long as you can look contemplative and earnest at the same time, can carry the right size of file about with you(thin, because you can always tell the bosses you are astonished there's been so little achieved on the subject for so much input, so you are about to change that), and can avoid giving anyone the impression that quick and correct answers to difficult problems come naturally to you until nearer reporting time, you could get away with it.
The best example of ambience is somewhere that did have a station until 1968, but the ambience was there before then. The Culloden battlefield. We went there mid-afternoon in late September, with a cool breeze around. Once we were about the Clan Cairns, where most of Bonnie Prince Charlie's lot fell shot to bits in a suicidal sword & bayonet charge on the English cannon, the wind completely stopped, the sun went in, and the temperature seemed to drop from around 13 to 4 or 5, if that.
As soon as we went back to the visitor centre, the sun stayed in, but the temperature went back up to 9 or 10, and the breeze returned. If it had been just me, fair enough, but my wife was just as forcibly struck by this, and she'd never had that feeling about a place before.
And, once she revisited Victoria last October, she now had the time to feel the ambience or aura of it, without me chuntering on about it, too.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 23, 2014 22:28:53 GMT
Sir John Betjeman, in 1951, read a story on the radio late at night about an unsuspecting commuter who inadvertently gets off at the closed South Kentish Town station when the train stops there for a signal and...................
Aldwych(where else?)was the scene for shooting our very own Prime Minister's favourite pop video-Firestarter by Prodigy.
And there was even a series in 1897's To-day magazine about a disgruntled mechanical engineer who bore a grudge against the District Line, and so murdered an unlucky passenger thereon every Tuesday evening.
Fictional, but convincing enough for the series to be dropped after strong entreaties from the District Line.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 23, 2014 19:52:02 GMT
Broad Street went 30 years ago, but it sure was a terminus by any stretch of the imagination. And had its' own ambience, so it's perfectly suited to this thread. Ditto Holborn Viaduct. Yes, and a quite different one to Broad Street.
Even though both were once intensely busy with commuters every rush hour, the ghosts of past times spoke in different voices at each.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 23, 2014 19:44:53 GMT
Yes, I used the Savoy Grill once, two young ladies with me as well. Few years before I met my wife, happy to report!
Remember the Civil Service stores well and the original frontage of Brompton Road station, which went west about 1972, around 40 years after the station itself closed for custom.
At least we can console ourselves that H Gordon Selfridge failed to get Bond Street(CL)renamed as Bond Street for Selfridges. Not for want of trying!
So, looks like Aldwych is still in the running for me after all. We shall see what others bring to our memories about fondly-remembered termini.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 23, 2014 16:29:30 GMT
Broad Street went 30 years ago, but it sure was a terminus by any stretch of the imagination. And had its' own ambience, so it's perfectly suited to this thread.
Well, as for Aldwych-the old music hall song said it all:
'Lets All Go Down The Strand(haveabanana!)'. Written, incidentally in 1909!
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 23, 2014 15:58:03 GMT
Wondered if any of you have a favourite terminus?
Doesn't have to be on the London area rail map, btw, but does anything tend to bring a smile or warm feeling to your soul whenever you use it, including through stations where short workings often terminate?
I'm stuck for choice between Victoria, which, over 80 years after they knocked down the dividing wall between the original LCDR & LBSCR stations, still gives off the ambience of two very separate stations within one contiguous whole.
And Aldwych, which was on the map once. No less then six attempts to turn it into a through station went to the wall, so was it really all along just somebody jogging the draughtsman's pen at the wrong moment in 1905 & creating the branch from Holborn? It always had the feeling of distinct possibilities faintly in the background of the overarching feeling of a melancholy 'This is the end-of-the-pier show' as per Archie Rice in The Entertainer.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 21, 2014 10:22:38 GMT
Probably stating the obvious, but if any of the original tickets also show a specified time of train departure, the user has to catch that train, otherwise they are invalid.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 20, 2014 21:03:45 GMT
Volk's runs daily for 6 months of the year & has done for 120-odd years. It's not a preserved railway, just a rather wonderful survivor.
You do get some diesel power on preserved railways as an alternative, eg West Somerset Railway, but I'm pushed to think of any that've tried electric power. Suspect the cost would indeed be a factor, and especially health and safety measures if the juice is around, because these are volunteer organisations not aspiring to run a fully-commercial modern railway, however excellent and professional they have become.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 19, 2014 22:20:22 GMT
Thanks, CSLR, this now makes sense.
It's a little like the way the original CSLR was engineered in & out of its' original City Terminus at King William Street.
Built for the expedient of cable traction, which it was meant to be, and then they actually opened as an electric railway and moved on to Bank etc within a decade.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 19, 2014 18:00:14 GMT
Yes, but the ticket offices were built for one purpose only, surely?
Whether they were even necessary, given your dates, is open to question, but allowing through ticketing is clearly the sole purpose for which they were opened:
link-Subterrania Brittanica
So the question now becomes, when they did they fall out of use at these 3 venues? Do the CSLR records tell us this?
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 19, 2014 11:55:25 GMT
Through ticketing between the 3 Yerkes lines that formed UERL wasn't even available until 1910, when Parliamentary sanction was sought and granted to form UERL from the 3 separate companies that had been forced to operate so far.
Also, when did the other companies start accepting the CSLR tickets referred to? It may perhaps have been 1910/11/12, but I can't see it would have been there from the start of the interchanges noted above.
There would be no other reason to have an underground ticket office unless the street buildings were bare of them, and I don't believe that was the case at Euston, Tottenham Court Road, or Elephant. The one illustrated is clearly a ticket office & not a passimeter checking window.
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