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Post by theblackferret on Sept 26, 2014 14:52:35 GMT
bassmike - Ah but that was then! Ou sont les wagons-lits d'antain? SouthWest Trains regrets the cancellation of all services due to les neiges d'antan. Mais, peut-etre les neiges d'antan etaient des mauvais types de neige; selon BR. Et merci pour Le Guardian ici-interesant! Nice to know the Mayor of Paris has an eye solely to commerce, seems we are not alone in philistineism or worshipping Mammon before nature.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 25, 2014 18:58:00 GMT
Actually, I understand that City Hall is still used to reverse service and stable trains overnight Well, that's the next best thing to actually being used for passengers, I suppose!
Let's also hope the proposed sales over here end in a Tube-related 'experience' of some sort, rather than simply being a sad reminder of something or other that either never was or never materialised.
It is also fascinating to know from the article that at least we never built an entire system that was destined to not carry a single passenger at all ie Cincinnati. Great article indeed.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 25, 2014 15:33:43 GMT
Thanks.
That NY station City Hall's tiling is certainly in a wonderful state of preservation now, after nearly 70 years of disuse. Does rather put our efforts in the shade by comparison, even if City Hall hasn't (presumably?) been the subject of a conscious preservation effort.
Fascinating stuff!
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 23, 2014 10:03:12 GMT
Historically, a considerable number of poor people (probably over 250,000) were decanted from their living 'accomodation'(not just from their place of work) when the main line termini were built. As a result, in 1877, Parliament had to pass legislation making the railway companies rehouse the poor AND offer cheap fares in the form of workmen's tickets-some companies only put a cursory one or two on at sort of 04:45 times, others like the original GER through to Walthamstow ran 6 or 7 an hour for 3 hours. In the meantime, most of London's middle-class and artisan working population had decanted from the Square Mile to Inner London and beyond towards what was then Metropolitan Kent etc. So, it's all happened before & no riots. Let's hope, though, people actually use Crossrail, and not just the suits to Canary Wharf. Otherwise, people might just start to question what is going on. I've no doubt this being Party Conference, instead of this type of Party, time: journos everywhere will be striving to pluck at the heartstrings of their readers, in their own inimitable fashion. We should bear in mind, to be fair, there are 73 constituencies in Greater London, and quite probably over 100 if you include those where 10% or more of workers travel to London as well. So, whatever the answer is, it may indeed matter next May. And I usually read---------------- without my reading glasses-pure vanity, I'm afraid!
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 22, 2014 8:47:11 GMT
Probably, but let's not forget the royal connection of 45029 should add a few bob to the price of tickets, plus the Jubilee bit is built to a wider bore than the original Piccadilly Tube at Aldwych, and, as the Jube never reached there, the bit beyond Charing Cross could easily be enlarged. What Royal connection? 45029 has no royal connections. It is an LMS design built by British Railways in the 1950's. The one used for the Royal Wedding was a converted 'Hastings' unit with flat sides. According to the blog quoted in the thread-opening post: Back in 2010, TfL acquired heritage coach DM45029, which is notable amongst railway buffs for being the last coach upon which the entire Royal Family travelled together. Minories Tube Station, which is around half-way down or up or round that wee bit of Circle Line-exclusive track between Tower Gateway [sic, surely you mean Tower hill?] and Aldgate; We haven't opened it yet, as we await the nod from TfL, of course.. Have you actually seen the stretch of track between Minories Junction and Aldgate - you couldn't get a train as long as Sarah Siddons plus DM45029 in there! - picture of district Line train taken from the platform at Aldgate There's 1/3 of a mile of track between the stations, surely the 2 vehicles aren't that long between them? Minories is just the most obvious name for such an intermediate station on that stretch. the Jubilee bit is built to a wider bore than the original Piccadilly Tube at Aldwych, and, as the Jube never reached there, the bit beyond Charing Cross could easily be enlarged. three problems - 1. how do you get the train in there in the first place? 2. the scenery isn't very interesting 3. the journey time would be less than three minutes: 1. Shunt it on to the Jubilee at Stratford, run through overnight to Green Park. 2. Illuminate the tunnels with holograms of Tube life from the past. 3. Extend the heritage railway to Ludgate Hill & Fenchurch Street and further as needed. Dining trains on present day heritage railways shuttle back & forth, so this one can also stop at the specially-restored intermediate stations.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 21, 2014 21:20:28 GMT
I wanted to do as far west as the Heathrow Loop, so that was what I wanted. I clearly stated the lower priced ticket that I wanted but was told the £12.50 was what I needed. Being the person that doesn't like to cause a scene unless it is very well needed, I caved in. Does anybody have any advice on what i should do if anything? I dont know if the man in the ticket office thought I was an easy picking or something because I am a tourist... Also, any help with part 2 of my question? Hmm-can I suggest you try watching a few episodes of The Sweeney & adopt a proper Sarf London accent next time? I am not a suspicious person by nature, but it does begin to appear to me that your East Riding accent (am I right?) may have given the ticket office the green light to take you for a ride unconnected with trains.
If you want to add to the effect, when they next try and sell you something you don't need, just add, in the Sarf London accent:
"You're out for a larf son! You're after the flaming foreman's job in the ruddy giggle factory! It don't rain much in Camberwell, mate, and I didn't come down in the last shower, either!, thanks!"
No need to create a scene, I agree, I wouldn't want their job, but it does tells them they are not dealing with a numpty.
And, yes, the one-day travelcard 1-6 option is best for you anyway, or 3-5-7 day if you are staying longer. Those were what we've used on our last 3 holidays up there & they also chop the price if you, for instance, want to go on a day trip further out to Kent, Sussex, Surrey, etc.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 21, 2014 20:10:17 GMT
If they are serious, they should consider:
1) A special Circle Line service, non-stop.
2) Both ways round the Hainault Loop on the Central Line.
3) Reinstitute Jubilee Line from Green Park through Charing Cross & go onto Aldywch, as the extension was originally meant to-make it a pure heritage Tube, too.
If it doesn't stop, does it go thru' stations with the doors open and you jump on & off? Well done, you spotted the deliberate mistake ( )-it loads & disgorges on Minories Tube Station, which is around half-way down or up or round that wee bit of Circle Line-exclusive track between Tower Gateway & Aldgate. We haven't opened it yet, as we await the nod from TfL, of course. I'm not sure that 45029 would be able to visit aldwych without some major re-engineering. Probably, but let's not forget the royal connection of 45029 should add a few bob to the price of tickets, plus the Jubilee bit is built to a wider bore than the original Piccadilly Tube at Aldwych, and, as the Jube never reached there, the bit beyond Charing Cross could easily be enlarged.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 21, 2014 19:10:28 GMT
If they are serious, they should consider:
1) A special Circle Line service, non-stop.
2) Both ways round the Hainault Loop on the Central Line.
3) Reinstitute Jubilee Line from Green Park through Charing Cross & go onto Aldywch, as the extension was originally meant to-make it a pure heritage Tube, too.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 20, 2014 15:58:35 GMT
I'd like to know why they can't ask themselves the obvious question:
Does anybody, on a need-to-know basis, need to know it?
If not, just keep it schtum until such time as that need arises.
And in the meantime:
ensure there are enough platform staff around for those whose need-to-know suddenly arises.
have fun amongst yourselves well outside the control/ops room with the unwanted information.
That way, we'll all be happy & elf n safety will be duly satisfied!
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 19, 2014 19:00:48 GMT
So do Tescos.
So presumably the technology is now tested in the field already.
If TfL has a problem, is it because Oyster is a specific system in its' own right, and not a generic card system ie debit/credit etc. within which the supermarket's software has to recognize a number of different types of card and a whole lot more card issuers?? The problem TfL has is nothing to do with Oyster being a closed proprietary system. It is all about having to recognise *three* forms of smartcard - Oyster, ITSO and now CPCs. Supermarket readers have to recognise one - CPCs for low value transactions. Anything else card based involves the contact element of the card being placed inside the reader. The other crucial factor is how people interract with the readers. I have never seen people tap their purse, wallet or handbag or jacket pocket on a retail card unit. People specifically choose the card they wish to pay with and use that on or in the reader. Transport is different because people are inevitably in a mad dash and have for many years adopted a range of behaviours about where they keep their travel ticket and what they keep with it. The ability for a smartcard to be read through a bag or pocket or wallet has reinforced the "don't bother to take the card out" behaviour. Now the technology has been updated those long learnt behaviours have to change. Even if the system was entirely CPC based there would still be card clash because many people will have more than one CPC in their wallet e.g. a debit card and a credit card. It is the presence of more than one card and the target being unable to clearly identify one is the issue. I make no judgement as to what is "right". I've always kept my travelcard separate from any other card - even when they were issued on bits of cardboard never mind being a magnetic ticket or an Oyster Card. I'm unfortunately unlike most shoppers, then, because I don't tend to decide which of my cards I'm using to pay until I get to the checkout. Everyone to their own, of course, but I may not be the only one trying to juggle a modest amount of available funds around several credit and debit cards for everyday purchases. I certainly agree most of us keep our travel ticket, in whatever guise, separate and often to hand on a journey. In which case, it's a shame that updated technology maybe isn't benefitting the users on TfL with touchless. So why bother with it, unless it has a truly major benefit for them? Why should we have to learn new behaviours, fps, just to keep the suits happy?
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 19, 2014 13:52:00 GMT
So do Tescos.
So presumably the technology is now tested in the field already.
If TfL has a problem, is it because Oyster is a specific system in its' own right, and not a generic card system ie debit/credit etc. within which the supermarket's software has to recognize a number of different types of card and a whole lot more card issuers??
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 17, 2014 19:38:17 GMT
(my italics)Which was revived during the Railtrack era "Leeds 1 st" project, when there was a "Leeds City" and "Leeds Whitehall" with a connecting bus service betwixt the two. It took a few years for the "Leeds City" wording to disappear from the luggage trolleys. Regarding the OP, the terminus to end them all is (for me) the one that created a turning point in my life. I was 17, it was mid-summer, the air-con had failed on the Transpennine 158 and I remember sweating profusely as I passed through Manchester Picadilly. As the twin plug doors moved out then separated I stepped onto the platform and experienced the cool breeze blowing through the dump of a station that was; Liverpool Lime Street: Ya gotta love concrete and brutalism. However the city carried me - the station, like I, has risen like a phoenix and now we are glorious: I lived in Liverpool when that station was, as Rincew1nd correctly says, a dump. They slowly kicked out the tacky shops in the concrete at the front and started it, I think, around 2007, in time for the Capital of Culture in 2008. I appreciate Liverpool more now I'm away and recently took a friend round there for several days and there were parts that really were great. It could still improve but couldn't everywhere. Now my father worked on the railways starting in Birkenhead North, the roughest part of the solar system, but that's a completely different story... Er, actually, Birkenhead might be just the ticket (groan!) for this thread. Hope your father's still with us and if so, just ask him about Birkenhead Woodside, the ex-GWR terminus, closed to passengers in 1967 & upon which the CSA built one of its' centres (yes, I worked for them, too!). Quite an evocative station, I believe.
And, I must confess, on my one visit to that CSAC, we in the CSA were on to outside smoking areas only and yours truly was the only one out there a couple of times. I couldn't visualise the train shed, quite, but the ambience of that being the northernmost frontier of the GWR, and where doubtless some passengers disembarked before going under the Mersey to emigrant ships to the New World (I believe Liverpool & Southampton were the major such ports in England) was lingering, which I remember was more than my cigarette smoke did in a keen March wind.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 17, 2014 19:19:33 GMT
Hope he wasn't tempted to try it underground, though!
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 17, 2014 17:34:17 GMT
Isn't there one in either Plymouth or Portsmouth that dates back to the Tudor times? Seem to remember seeing it on the 'Coast' programme. IIRC The ones at Chatham date back to the 17th century. Yes, that was one of the Dockyard features English Heritage were busy scheduling as an Ancient Monument just before I started at EH in 1984.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 17, 2014 15:45:18 GMT
They are fireworks - how are you going to stop people outside the payzone from seeing them? 500-foot high screens? And that's how the Crystal Palace lost money hand over fist in its' later years-Brock's massive firework displays being viewed by a few hundred paying punters, and tens of thousands of 'free admissions' across the rest of South London, Metropolitan Kent, and the higher parts of Surrey!
Hopefully, someone can organize free viewing points well outside the ticketed area this time, too, for those unable to settle for watching it on widescreen TV in their own living rooms.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 17, 2014 10:59:55 GMT
Isn't the widest timber roof that at Westminster Hall? Could be, because Brunel's Temple Meads 1840 station, according to NR's site: The original Brunel train shed functioned for 125 years until its closure on 12 September 1965. His mock hammer beam roof, built of wood to emulate Westminster Hall in London, can still be seen as part of the car park at today’s station.
And, incidentally, Paddington(1838) was originally a wooden roof too. The 1854 rebuild incorporated iron and glass throughout the roofing. Both were Brunel, although the second station's detailing was mainly the work/inspiration of his assistant, Matthew Digby Wyatt. So, I wonder if a major switch to iron and glazed roofs coincided with the erection of the original 'Crystal Palace' in Hyde Park in 1851 and the Great Exhibition therein from May-October that year? However, Phillip Hardwick seems to've been off to the foundries for Euston a little earlier than that. His original 1837 roof was wrought-iron. It was planned by Robert Stephenson & designed by Charles Fox, so I bet they tried out a few ale-houses on the way with Phillip!
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 16, 2014 21:44:42 GMT
Yes, how much better that one looks today!
One heck of a lot more to appreciate than whenever I used it once or twice a season between 1969-1986, when my lot were at Anfield or Goodison.
Not that I wasn't able to then, even if my attention was mainly on the match, witness my remembering Hull Paragon.
It's just that now, it's a bit easier to drink in the full flavour of it without the tatty shops there, so you can actually let your imagination rise to the fore as you climb up the entrance steps. So now, function and form have got reunited properly. Good!
And I believe the Liver Bird itself was meant to have phoenix-like qualities, so that's a highly-appropriate image.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 16, 2014 19:29:38 GMT
Stations frequently have names that have fallen into disuse - Nottingham Midland, Leeds City, Sheffield Midland etc all come to mind. King's Cross is the terminus with which I am most familiar, and the recent refurbishment has greatly improved its appearance and amenities, although it is very different to how I remember it. Looking back, how did everyone ever fit onto that tiny 1970s concourse? Yes, yours has been enhanced, without losing its' ambience or atmosphere. It still mirrors that jacket-lapel clutching certainty of purpose inherent in the Great Northern Railway honchos who built it, which is doubtless why the Great featured in the company's name, instead of Up-and-coming, Quite Good, or Moderately Beneficial & Efficacious Northern Railway!
In view of the spaciousness it now has, I'll therefore limit it to a brace of Scammell Mechanical Horses; on plinths next to an eating area!
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 16, 2014 14:20:03 GMT
Thanks, folks, that's what I wanted to see & hear about Paragon.
And it's kept it's name, too. Unique amongst British stations for being the only Paragon station ever?
I know the DLR and Jubilee extension tried to use steel & glass to make a sweeping statement in their stations, but the original iron work of the roof here and at some of the others we have mentioned so far still surpasses these sterling efforts, ditto the presence of Leslie Green oxblood fiaence tiling on Tube stations.
There is something spiritual in the roof of a terminus, even amongst the pigeons. I suppose the Victorian engineers thought their passengers would probably be looking skyward unto our Lord, so might also marvel at the skill in designing and erecting the roof as to what talents God gave man?
Now, over 100 years on, we can marvel at it and its' endurance, too.
There's only one thing unfortunately missing from all our termini now, which would make the ambience of Kings Cross, St Pancras, Paddington, Victoria and Liverpool Street complete, though I doubt that this:
is about to make a comeback. Maybe rockorange can find a place for them alongside PRT's?
Cowes certainly had charm, looking at the photos around of it. Which is considerably more than what replaced it could be said to 'possess'-
Yes, that 1975 Aldwych proposal was the 5th of the 6th and it did indeed receive Parliamentary approval, which I doubt any of the others did, except the 6th and the last, the Jubilee extension originally scheduled to be going on from Charing Cross via there and Ludgate Circus to Fenchurch Street.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 16, 2014 11:52:30 GMT
We very nearly lost Marylebone before Broad Street was needlessly culled, having been intentionally run down, I'm sure, in both cases. Marylebone does still have enough of its' original aura left, though, to be worth travelling to today.
Hull Paragon I have actually travelled to-23 November 1974 to be precise. I thought it quite impressive at the time and I hope the 40 years since have treated it kindly.
What was clearly missing from the Yerkes' era was an Edwardian version of rockorange, who could have made the three Tube lines instead of one. Because Yerkes died in 1905, and that's when someone with imagination was sorely needed.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 15, 2014 20:49:49 GMT
Well now, I love this bit of the BBC News item: Commuters have been urged to avoid paying twice in "card clash" by making sure only one card touches the reader.Rather inspires confidence in the system, that does. Still, item 3 on the national news headlines on the right hand side is better reading: "Goldfish has brain op".(and it was successful, folks!) So, there's now at least some chance of someone somewhere in authority understanding that mixing the two systems is the cause of card clash, not the PBI of Tube travel-the commuters .
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 15, 2014 17:59:26 GMT
Thanks for the photos-loved the timewarp on the signs (British Rail??)!
Character is the word. "Change for British Railways" must date it to pre 1964. I wonder if this is the original signage installed when the extensions were opened after the war. With a little thought they could have made this the Central Line's heritage station. I find the modern signage has all the allure of a dentist's waiting room. The 3rd of your photos looks original-not even the line coloured in, no interchange with anybody painted on, either. British Railways began 1-1-1948, and the enabling Act was dated 1947, which is when this CL extension started opening. So they may not have known exactly which entity they would be connecting with, or the Bill hadn't passed its' third reading in the House yet.
The 5th is also a possibility; could be from 1948, not forgetting CL didn't reach Ruislip until 30.6.1948, but even if it is '48 & not '47, it's still an amazing artefact-to me, the clue is the red arrow pointing to West Ruislip; I've definitely seen that exact design on public hand-outs about the extension from Leytonstone to Epping coming into service, and that was on 25.9.1949, so it's very much the right era.
The modern signage is sometimes too cluttered, as well as being dreary. Neither form nor function is being served as well as in the past, what a surprise
As for the Heritage station, Holland Park also has something it shares only with Queensway which makes it the best choice-it retains its' original Harry Bell Measures' frontage.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 15, 2014 10:46:51 GMT
Thanks for the photos-loved the timewarp on the signs (British Rail??)!
Character is the word.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 13, 2014 11:37:53 GMT
Having now watched the film, I'd like to say to the bloke who proposed 24-hour Tubes (no names, no packdrill) just watch this, pal, and realise you are spouting rubbish, rather than getting it cleared up and keeping us safe on the Tubes!
A propos of the 'wasn't it dull in the 50's', please excuse this off-topic video, riding through London streets in the 1950's:
Because it does actually convey, via shop fronts, displays, people's clothing, colours of cars, that same sense of dreary and weary in the black and white film, at least compared to the era from around 1970 to now.
PS-so as to not drag this off-line, I'm starting a new thread over in the mess room area for some other entertaining 50's/60's vids of London that DON'T revolve around the Tubes!
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 12, 2014 10:11:50 GMT
Lots to comment on here, I'm sure. Would love to have seen London like this. ClickyWell, I had the pleasure of seeing it, at least from 1952, when I was born! 17-20 all look like they were taken during the 1958 Bus strike, which really did paralyse London Transport, and it lasted over 6 weeks. Rush hour crowds were rarely quite that mental. Did anyone spot Eric Morecambe in picture 21? And yes, it did look drab, even in colour. I can distinctly remember window-shopping in the West End of a Sunday & anywhere with an American-themed window (including the original HMV shop in Oxford Street) had piles of people gawping in, because such outlets (or shops as they were called then) were the only islands of colour, it seemed, in a sea of dingy grey. As adults were gawping along with the wee me, I suspect a lot of other people had the same impression, too. And thanks for putting these up, ferrets et al!
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 11, 2014 19:47:10 GMT
Be interesting to see when the location at which it's been found became the ocean floor?
If recently-melted ice means within the last 20-30 years, then it's possible it was trapped in ice before then, rather than sunk.
Fingers crossed!
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 11, 2014 19:21:19 GMT
I am a user on TS2014 and there are plenty of good add-ons I would like to get BUT, will there be an official London Underground add-on for Train Simulator 2014 possibly from Just Trains? Just Trains has this boxed simulator
Just Trains
which mentions "The recent Hammersmith Extension" if that supercedes what you may already have. They also have it
Just trains-download
as a download.
I can't find a specific add-on that matches TS2014 & LUL, but I did notice TS 2015 is already on Amazon & wonder if they're saving it for the next edition?
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 11, 2014 13:43:39 GMT
In terms of timing the eastbound Central line at Mile End is probably the worst offender I encounter regularly, Liverpool Street and Bank (again eastbound Central) are sometimes nearly as bad. Debden westbound I would consider to be among the better ones. I twice started to write here possible simple changes, but I have realised that actually what needs to happen is that TfL need to have a complete holistic review of their offline information provision (posters, maps, announcements, DMIs, etc) starting from scratch with establishing basic principles about what information people want, when they want it, where they want it, how they want it and when they want it. The provision should be decided based on human factors to avoid information overload. The access symbols on the tube map are a classic example of making things worse - it presents an incomplete message that hinders what most people actually want without really helping those who need the access information. Train approaching messages are useful for a very limited set of people - those unable to see or hear the train approaching who can see (and are looking at) and read flashing messages on the DMIs. This message is only useful if actually displayed only when a train is approaching, at all other times it prevents information that is more useful for more people being displayed. At places like Leytonstone and Stratford eastbound it's not uncommon to see people leaning into (and blocking) doorways waiting for the DVA to tell them where the train is going because the DMI is either not visible from where they are or it is displaying something useless (such as "train approaching"). I think that nails the problem. The present approach seems to be: we are living in a 24/7 etc society; there's a constant media bombardment associated with that(which presumes everyone actively likes living in it and must be kept up to date with all information available all the time)which our 'customers' must therefore feel worried about when we can't keep them up to speed with our travel information. And once, as you say, they start thinking about people & human factors, the sooner they will realise that there are plenty of different types of passengers, too, who need different types of information at different times in different places, and that these needs are what they should address, and then realise they actually can satisfy what the vast majority of the different categories want across a wide range of information sites and modes, without the present tendency towards one size fits all.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 10, 2014 21:53:50 GMT
I didn't say I didn't like the pun, btw!!
And it worked, because that alone made me press your link!
I'm looking forward to the book, that's for certain, too.
Slightly on topic, we went to the Pompeii exhibition last year at the British Museum and were stunned to find the intricacies of faence tiling, as per Leslie Green, were not only on exhibition in the excavated gardens section amongst others, but that the Pompeiians had learnt the technique from Ancient Egyptian papyri.
Wonderful exhibition, and that was an unexpected highlight, even if the examples from the Bay of Naples were azure and aqua blues, rather than the familiar Leslie Green Oxblood/BloodRed/Terracota examples.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 10, 2014 21:26:14 GMT
AIUI (possibly from Tiles of the Unexpected the Great Central tiling was there originally; it may have been refurbished/replaced recently though. What a gruesome pun that book title is!
Thanks for bringing such a marvellous tome to my notice, though, because I just found it brand new on eBay at half the price. Even used my own Paypal and not my wife's to pay for it, too!
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