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Post by theblackferret on Apr 7, 2024 9:10:36 GMT
On channel 5 at 8pm tonight. Only an overview-style programme, but it was enjoyable & no glaring errors in it-not up to Tim & Siddy levels,but worth looking at.
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Post by theblackferret on Mar 11, 2024 11:22:52 GMT
Hi, First post, please be gentle. I wasn't certain if the DLR board was the best place for this thread, but seemed like a good punt given re-use of infrastructure relative to my topic. If it is misplaced I'm sure admin will move it? I'm trying to find out some information about the former London and Blackwall Railway, specifically any details (with sources) of timetables/operating hours for passenger services between the years 1888 - 1891. It's a long shot I'm sure, but seems like this would be the forum to find answers on. Thanks, Keriz Amazingly, I was reading about Fenchurch Street last night in Alan A Jackson's London's Termini(David & Charles) 1969-revised edition(mine) 1985. First off, the Sunday service to Blackwall ceased in 1908. The weekday service (that included Saturday) is quoted in 1872 as 15-minute interval services all day, and that still appertained at the turn of the century. Around the same time as Sunday trains went(October 1908), Mr Jackson tells us the 4 trains an hour was reduced to three. On that basis, my 1910 Bradshaw's facsimile(David & Charles 1968),gives: Fenchurch Street--->Blackwall first train dep 05:27 arr 05.41;last train dep 23:40 arr 23:56-my use of 24-hr clock,not Bradshaw's throughout) Blackwall----> Fenchurch Street first train dep 05:20 arr 05:36;last train dep 23:48 arr 00:04. Wow-16 minutes with steam locos & with 8 intermediate stops!! Mr Jackson, in his London's Local Railways(David & Charles 1979) mentions the Sunday service went out to half-hourly instead of 15-minute intervals from 1883 & that the weekday 20-minute service in fact started in 1902, so he may have found more evidence since the earlier book to quote that. I hope that helps frame the likely level of service in the years you wanted & the times of service-I can't believe the latter would have changed by 1910. I don't have a 1888-1891 Bradshaw's to clinch the deal-maybe Michael Portillo does?
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Post by theblackferret on Mar 3, 2024 10:53:36 GMT
As a quick guess,was that where the guard originally stood to signal to the driver, as it appears to be roughly in the middle of the platform so he could have seen both ways?
The tiling in that banding looks Leslie Green, too, so does it date from that station's opening in 1932?
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Post by theblackferret on Feb 19, 2024 10:29:20 GMT
The Mildmay Line is the only one I knew nothing about, but perhaps it's a good reason to reinstate a station at Mildmay Park, as it actually mentions a district through which the line passes.
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Post by theblackferret on Dec 25, 2023 16:06:18 GMT
Merry Christmas one & all,thanks especially to the 'staff'-just like the Tube, they're the ones who keep it running.
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Post by theblackferret on Dec 24, 2023 11:19:10 GMT
It might make for some confusing announcements! Turn right for the Wright Line The Wright Line is not running right Yes, that's true, but, as he's still alive, he might easily be persuaded to do pre-recorded announcements! I'm not a Crystal Palace or Arsenal fan, btw, but that voice also has a certain ring to it. On the Brunel theme, definitely a big contender because Sir Marc began the tunnel as well as I K-B taking it over. However, neither of those envisaged or purposed the tunnel as a railway line-ooh, controversy,or not.
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Post by theblackferret on Dec 23, 2023 11:16:12 GMT
Just for once, a reasonable suggestion in the Guardian: linkMay be more luck than judgement that he fits the contours exactly, but that being the case, it wouldn't set a precedent for other lines or branches.
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Post by theblackferret on Dec 13, 2023 10:32:33 GMT
Would be interesting to know what percentage of visitors to London come from other parts of England, from other parts of the UK & abroad, respectively. I'd expect most foreigners would be in fairly-Central hotels,so how much need would they have for all the other stuff on here? Equally,thanks to Dstock7080, we can now see what the end-game will be;just get the app instead & then Tube maps will die out entirely, except on station sites, whence archaeologists will wonder at them around 2250(that's the year, not the time!) and wonder.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 13, 2023 9:52:47 GMT
Small bit for comparison re talk of closing the line:
The City & South London from Euston to Moorgate was closed from August 1922-April 1924 & the Moorgate-Clapham Common section from November 1923 to December 1924-major re-boring of tunnel widths et al.
That all cost City Road station its' life, as it were, and cleared the way for extensions onwards both ways.
The big question now would be whether people forced to find alternative routes would return,because there may be more other ways than there were 100 years ago.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 14, 2023 10:13:40 GMT
Doesn't that set look splendid!
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 12, 2023 12:08:24 GMT
I rather like the fact that, although this is a very modern design, it actually looks like,wait for it-a Tube/London Underground train.
Well done-surprising how easy it is to lose your key brand image in working with today's 24/7/365/everythinghastobedoneatthespeedpoflightworld.
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Post by theblackferret on Jun 22, 2023 9:54:44 GMT
Unfortunately,one of the 'benefits' of Artificial Intelligence is that it makes governmental & public bodies slaves to the idea of knowing what everybody's doing-this now applies pretty well globally.
And anywhere AI has to try and process a cash payment or transaction...............!! So, of course, we'll always be told that card payments automatically make for more efficient use of resources and also much easier for us,and in this context for 'us' read 'them'.
If you remember a time when the great majority of adults paid for everything bar monthly mortgage payments or utility bills by cash, you might now shudder to think that the Tube actually kept running throughout that era and that millions of daily cash payments didn't kill it, LT & even London off.
Well, it didn't did it?
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Post by theblackferret on May 30, 2023 11:20:16 GMT
I suspect mention of the slowest person's speed would apply to escalator access & progress,too.
Even in my more athletic days(yes,it's true!),walking down an escalator to speed up progress was very rarely done, in case some other passenger moved their case/backpack & sent you flying. It was easier to spot that walking up escalators.
I would expect TFL have trialed this literally on foot before most of the figures were added. Maybe some need updating?
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Post by theblackferret on May 14, 2023 17:48:30 GMT
If this was,as per Wiki, delivered to LT in 1961/2 & used on the Met & east London Line, I'd favour the old GC route because:
1) by 1960, that route was beginning to be run down by BR Midland region,both for freight & passengers, so it was more likely to have regular paths available for delivery.
2) Track was still down on joint GC/Met lines allowing transfer across.
3) At that time(pre-Beeching) where BR was charged with saving money wherever & whenever it could,it would make sense to use the ex-GC route.
Can't prove it,of course. Wonder if any railway mags of the time could help?
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Post by theblackferret on May 9, 2023 12:31:43 GMT
I wonder if the creators of this Fredsaw that signal back in the day?
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Post by theblackferret on May 2, 2023 10:42:42 GMT
I used to work in Savile Row(1984-89) & don't recall there or in lunchtime wanderings through Soho or Mayfair seeing any bespoke escalator manufacturers.
Suits,oh yes!
As a serious point, would Kentish Town be better served by installing lifts instead of elevators or would that result in a more-prolonged closure?
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Post by theblackferret on Apr 11, 2023 10:20:41 GMT
Well,at least the project itself lives on: The Projectand with landscape architects GROSS.MAX(their capitals,btw) involved this could be interesting,one suspects. As it's (c)2023 bottom right, we can safely assume it's ongoing. I also note in the text (yes, I've read it) there's a link, so I've clicked on that for all &: The factswe even get a rail map-unfortunately,North Greenwich remains stubbornly that-maybe they should be emailed for further information vide the station renaming.
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Post by theblackferret on Mar 31, 2023 10:03:54 GMT
I'd agree with eliminating names-too complicated for a number of reasons. One of which is,when it comes under TFL's aegis it comes up against all the existing named Underground lines-definite information overload.
Initial letters A-M(I omitted) will suffice-train/timetable head-codes could easily adapt, if desired, to AA full service:AS short:AE express or AP for part ie branch service.
On the map,either print a,b,c,d. etc into the orange line in black/dark blue etc or print orange a,b,c,d etc between black lines.
Alternately, to consider the Mayor's wishes,we could use Roman numerals instead,given they founded London and their legionnaires were from a very diverse background,too.
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Post by theblackferret on Mar 28, 2023 12:06:24 GMT
The Jazz service was unveiled just about the same time as the first London concerts by The Original Dixieland Jazz Band & the Great Eastern Railway's publicity service jumped at the chance of naming their new revised service after this exciting new cultural phenomenon. Wouldn't you? Possibly, though, it was a good job LT's publicity people didn't also go bandwagon-jumping when the Fleet Line's emergence coincided with the rise of punk rock.
After all, the Jazz Service exercise was designed to get far more passenger services by better utilizing the existing steam-hauled train paths by jazzing them up, rather than expensively electrifying the lines, as others had done. That took another 40 years to come to reasonable fruition.
The only comment I'd make on the name of the lines-get rid of Goblin,pronto. Daemonologists will tell you goblins aren't that bad,but they are at least mischievous little gits and not the sort of image that blends with a harmonious & well-run railway.
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Post by theblackferret on Feb 19, 2023 21:18:55 GMT
Looking at @chris M's photo,that's exactly the style of handrail I remember and it was probably on a comparatively short & shallow escalator & maybe in a tucked-away section of an interchange or main-line serving Tube station, thus one that saw less footfall in the working week.
It may also have been a wooden rail-I never used it,just noticed it more than once. Equally, the rail-less stairs could have been a temporary phase between wooden & metal handrails.
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Post by theblackferret on Feb 18, 2023 12:03:12 GMT
I can remember from the late 1960's & early to mid 1970's a couple of locations where there were either metal fixed handrails on the stairs or no handrails at all.
In both instances, the escalators flanking the stairs were the old-fashioned slatted wood style and they audibly chugged away as you used them.
I can't recall either location's name,but as I wasn't working in London then & my regular girlfriends were all down near me in Kent, the locations narrow down to either:
1-Interchange stations from the District to the Piccadilly & less likely Northern or Bakerloo lines from arriving main-line at Charing Cross or Victoria
2-The Tube stations serving those two termini or Euston(when going to Old Trafford for Utd. home games),just possibly King's Cross as an alternate route up North/changing point
3-Stations serving the top football grounds ie Fulham Broadway,Arsenal or Upton Park-Seven Sisters would probably have had modern escalators from the start & in those days I only went to Fulham by car or bus.
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Post by theblackferret on Jan 10, 2023 22:42:43 GMT
Looks to me like three line colours above the station name panels, although the original platforms are only served by two! I see only two colours - yellow and pink Think the blue sign's border is confusing the issue-at the top anyway,at first glance anyway. Only when you look at the other three sides,do you realise the sign colour matches the station name's colour, especially as it's Piccadilly blue.
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Post by theblackferret on Jan 5, 2023 11:59:15 GMT
Thanks to one and all for the technical explanations. I wonder if anyone can set out what the various people symbols indicate(is red next,or does it go further to purple or black if it's standing room only?). Is there an equivalent for lightly-loaded trains ie half a green person or equivalent for completely empty? If they wish to trial it further, audio accompaniment would be useful to assist visually-impaired passengers.
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Post by theblackferret on Dec 24, 2022 22:55:33 GMT
Thanks to all at District Dave's for another year of interesting posts and a well-run forum.
Happy Christmas to one & all and a good 2023 to all.
Sincerely hope the New Year brings tolerance back to the world at large and the ability to listen to what somebody else is saying if it happens to be different to what you think-let's keep hoping, eh?
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Post by theblackferret on Dec 18, 2022 11:18:28 GMT
I know Ickenham wasn't the only station on the present network that was officially opened as a halt or a platform,a fact that was recorded on its' signboards at the time.
I'm interested in anyone's knowledge of such stopping places that were either:
a) scheduled to become part of the Underground but never did:-eg Mill Hill The Hale(was that ever designated halt or platform?) or Denham Golf Club Platform(was that ever included in Central Line extension plans?)
b) at some point mooted to be opened as a halt or platform on the more rural parts of the system but never actually opened at all.
Incidentally, there isn't really a standard definition for halt or platform status elsewhere except a general presumption facilities at such places would be limited compared to stations, though not necessarily the train services at them, nor even that they would be unstaffed.
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Post by theblackferret on Dec 3, 2022 12:26:39 GMT
I can't comment on the technical issues here,but one of the reasons King William Street closed as early as 1900 was the gradient problem at the station site.
It apparently meant,on more than one occasion,trains had to take a 2nd or 3rd run at entering the station! Either that,or two locos could be needed.
This was simply because the approach to it was amongst the first parts of the City & South London Railway to be built & so it was built for the traction power that had initially been planned for working the line-and that wasn't electric locos, it was planned & first built,though never operated, as a cable-hauled system.
Luckily for the future of the Tube, the cable-equipment manufacturers went bankrupt & the CSLR big cheeses saw a couple of electrically-driven railways in action(including Volks in Brighton) & decided to take a chance on the electric.
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Post by theblackferret on Nov 1, 2022 10:54:52 GMT
Well, being sat together with non-Tube services gives the place a different feel to most Underground stations.
And I, for one, like a bit of variety in the stations, as long as the Tube services themselves are consistently reliable.
It does have a certain ambience & I trust that any station should give off its' own, regardless of strictly being a workaday,functional building.
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Post by theblackferret on Oct 31, 2022 21:26:32 GMT
And useage at present is about one-third of pre-Covid levels,still over a million a year,though.
There's no excuse for dirt, if that is the case.
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Post by theblackferret on Oct 12, 2022 9:41:54 GMT
The original CSLR station at King William Street was closed in 1900, together with (I think) 1,300-1,400 yards of track leading off to it after Borough.
So that lot was never re-bored to the now-standard Tube Tunnel width in 1921-3 along with the rest of the CSLR and would therefore presumably present difficulty in being reused or integrated into a new Tube line or extension. Pity-would have been ideal as a starting point for a heritage Tube line.
On Knightsbridge's 'new' passenger tunnels-great idea & I suspect these would need less structural safety-checking than the CSLR tunnels.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 9, 2022 21:23:20 GMT
All I'll say is she'll be an impossible act to follow;if they were all like her, it might be another story.
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