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Post by nig on Sept 8, 2017 12:39:37 GMT
just looked at rotas and there is no less weekends off if anything the 4 day week gets more off and definitely more sundays off.. there are 2 five day long weekends but no 6 day ones but nothing is stopping anyone changing their rest days around Also for those that don't like nights there is no nights on the 4 day week how does a four day week help someone get a senior management position ? But if there was only the 4 day week, then of course there would be nights. So what do you do, 4 or 5? yes there would be then but the idea has always been voluntary so can't see it being all 4 day week as there seems to be about a 50 /50 split of those that want to do it and those that want to stay on 5 day week personally i would love a 4 day week
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Post by nig on Sept 8, 2017 12:25:46 GMT
Has anybody got a copy of the Jubilee line trial roster for the 4 day week? yes but don't think i would be allowed to post it on here
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Post by nig on Sept 8, 2017 12:24:30 GMT
I would guess that one fewer commute would be a big factor is this... Not really 😉 Really i thought that would be a big factor if you got hour commute thats 2 hours less travelling a week
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Post by nig on Sept 8, 2017 12:23:31 GMT
..........Quite what counts as a "success" I don't know, but I do know the uptake was initially poor, at least at the east end of the line. Word is there are mixed feelings both amongst those taking part and those not, one argument being that there were fewer long weekends for the five dayers who followed the roster. My understanding is that ASLEF think it has been successful but RMT not. What the next step is I don't know, so watch this space................. One of the selling points by the particular TFC rep to the drivers on his line was a thu/fri/sat/sun/mon/tue rest day break, which lo and behold, never materialised. In effect, it would be 6 days off every couple months as a 'long weekend' off on a 4 day week is a 6 day weekend. There is no 'long weekend' off and this has pi***d a number of people off, by a number of accounts, there's fewer weekends off than there are on the 5 day week. Another factor is movement between the the link rosters, if a driver opts for a 4 day week, they may find themselves stuck there when they find they want to move back to a 5 day week. Personally, knowing the 'players' involved in the ASLEF decisions here, it's a case of an individual wanting to make a name for themselves and using the 4 day week as a way of bettering their position within the union, but moreover, if he doesn't rise further in the union, then his feathered his bed for a senior management position. just looked at rotas and there is no less weekends off if anything the 4 day week gets more off and definitely more sundays off.. there are 2 five day long weekends but no 6 day ones but nothing is stopping anyone changing their rest days around Also for those that don't like nights there is no nights on the 4 day week how does a four day week help someone get a senior management position ?
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Post by nig on Aug 25, 2017 4:08:45 GMT
Night duties only run sun to Thursday on picadilly line Cap plans can be done on Friday and Saturday 8.30 to 1.30 if an I/op is doing all night they shouldn't be Apparently the agreement is if a Night Tube driver requires an IOp in the cab then management ask for a volunteer to work Friday and Saturday nights with the shifts they would have been working covered by the pool. Don't know what they do in none of the IOps volunteer. could always get an early I/op to do a few hours with them .. Would be interested reading the incident report if a spad or something happened an I/op and T/op on same train but working different days ...
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Post by nig on Aug 24, 2017 22:50:22 GMT
But then I feel that LUL might have to employ more T/Ops, an issue which I'm not too familiar with. I must admit to wondering what effect this would have on the number of driving staff required, and whether or not there would be an increase in the number of drivers as a result. Drivers who would (in all likelihood) be one of the many direct entrants or Night Tube T/Ops and likely to join (or already be a member of) ASLEF. Perhaps that is why they are so keen on the idea. Am I being overly cynical? you wouldn't need any extra t/ops as they would still be doing the same ammount of hours as a five day week and not all t/ops want to do the longer daily hours so it's all voluntary
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Post by nig on Aug 24, 2017 15:57:14 GMT
RMT were never really in favour of it maybe as can't get similar deal for stations they balloted there T/op members before last pay deal to see wether to persue it was a close call 52 percent in favour if I recall
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Post by nig on Aug 24, 2017 11:49:49 GMT
Does anyone know how the 4 day week trial is going as seems the unions have different versions to how it is
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Post by nig on Aug 18, 2017 22:30:31 GMT
Piccadilly line still has full time night turns for first and last trains just like most other lines. When I did my TO training, IO and myself did one night to get a couple of Northfields depot moves done. IO = Instructor Operator TO = Train Operator Well, that explains it. We used to have Sunday to Saturday night turns on Central Line (Hainault and Leytonstone depots only) but after Night Tube started its Sunday to Thursday only so there are no "normal" night duties during Night Tube hours. I wonder what the situation is on the other Night Tube lines?
Night duties only run sun to Thursday on picadilly line Cap plans can be done on Friday and Saturday 8.30 to 1.30 if an I/op is doing all night they shouldn't be
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Post by nig on Aug 17, 2017 13:10:49 GMT
For leaf fall it might be worthwhile suspending the local as only a couple of trains use it save trying to keep 2 lines clear of those pesky leaves But wouldn't that reduce flexibility in the case of disruption. Within the past month or so I was on a train heading for Heathrow T5 when there were delays on the line (I can't remember if they were advertised as minor or severe). At Acton Town there was a (presumably booked) driver change, but with the new driver came a change of destination to Northfields. We were routed down the local line as when we arrived at South Ealing or Northfields (I was reading a good book so not paying much attention to where we were) we were advised to change here as the train to Heathrow (T4 as it turns out, but the driver didn't specify) was in the adjacent platform, I don't know the sequence of arrivals. I think the train on the wb fast arrived in passenger service, but I'm not sure. i was referring to the east bound local the west bound local gets used a lot more as northfields stabler's/ reversers normally use it or if your routed into westbound local at acton you have to use it .. the east bound local gets used once or twice a day unless something goes wrong of course but even during disruption doesn't get used that often as can also effect the district line as can only go into the platform they use at acton town
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Post by nig on Aug 17, 2017 4:36:21 GMT
There is at least 1 booked move on the eastbound local in the WTT every day, early morning. I think there is one late night as well. In theory there's a reversing move possible by terminating an arriving train at Northfields in eastbound fast, it can then reverse into depot. Whilst doing this you may wish another train to run through, thus using the eastbound local line. When the Leaf Fall special timetable comes in and when the District engineering works cause the Piccadilly to run 6tph via the local lines between Acton Town and Hammersmith you can pretty sure there will be more booked moves via the eastbound local. There is a booked move at 23.50 down the local line . If reversing into the depot they normally use the local line (trains can still run down the fast ) although the fast would be used if no relief driver at Northfield's or a train comes out the depot and is defective If the Piccadilly is to run 6tph via the local lines between Acton Town and Hammersmith wouldn't it make more sense for the Rayner's branch cover that as they come through Ealing common part of the district line and if need more trains are needed they can always route them in Acton local from the fast For leaf fall it might be worthwhile suspending the local as only a couple of trains use it save trying to keep 2 lines clear of those pesky leaves
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Post by nig on Aug 13, 2017 12:56:08 GMT
I've just gone onto the TfL website to see if there's any indication of this weekend having a repeat of the same trouble as the last and found "Minor delays between Acton Town and Heathrow Airport due to operational difficulties". Is this the new way of saying they've promoted too many Night tube drivers in one go or something unrelated - the vaguest update message I can recall seeing yes operational difficulties are due to lack of night tube operators on the book the master plan is to have certain trains cancelled to make 4 trains an hour instead of 6 and if a gap of over 45 minutes occur they will suspend the service
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Post by nig on Aug 11, 2017 13:37:26 GMT
looks like they still blaming drivers Brian Woodhead, LU's operations director for the Piccadilly line, said: "I apologise to customers who were unable to use Night Tube services on the Piccadilly line last weekend because some train drivers were absent due to sickness. nothing about they are short of night tube drivers www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40901812
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Post by nig on Aug 9, 2017 20:23:29 GMT
When the normal route is under maintenance for some reason, surely they would use the test track instead?? its not actually called the test track its the east bound local which can be used for testing and yes they do but the problem is trains can only go into eastbound local at Acton town the same platform as district line trains so its not overly used as causes congestion Also there is booked trains that use it think its one in morning and one in evening
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Post by nig on Aug 7, 2017 23:19:38 GMT
My thought, if the whole Jubilee-Northern-Piccadilly lines group was fitted with Track Loop based Seltrac Signalling, as originally intended, it would have greatly simplified matters, as trains could have run under J-N-P Seltrac all the way, once the route was programmed into the Control Centre's Computer(s). For general interest, this is the Manufacturer's Brochure originally produced for the J-N-P Lines Seltrac Installation. www.thalesgroup.com/sites/default/files/asset/document/seltracr_in_london_jnp.pdfThat was probably the plan never got done though the picadilly is still a manual line so no loops at all
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Post by nig on Aug 7, 2017 22:56:48 GMT
Failure to recruit sufficient train operators? Maybe it's the weather at the moment that makes me feel negative, however the atmosphere at LU of late feels like deckchairs being rearranged on a sinking ship. The current senior management just don't seem to have a grip on what's going on. Last year we had the farce of BTP being reportedly called in over the wheel flats fiasco (trains which had been running successfully for over three decades), only for the issue to have now quietly been put down to insufficient removal of vegetation. Why on earth would the BTP get involved? In the 38 years since I left school this truly is the worst company I've ever worked at for rumour, gossip and misinformation.
Read London Reconnections "Wear and Lathing in Northfields" for a full explanation of the wheel flats issue.
www.londonreconnections.com/2016/wear-and-lathing-problem-with-the-piccadilly-lines-trains/
For info,Date: 25 November 2016 Issued to: All London Underground employees An update on current Piccadilly line disruption Not all rumours memo from the boss last year Dear All I wanted to update you all on the current challenges we are facing on the Piccadilly line and the actions we are taking to improve things for our customers. During the last few days, an unusually high proportion of trains on the Piccadilly line have had to be taken out of service as a result of ‘flatted’ wheels. Train wheels that slide on a rail can pick up a flat-spot that can affect the smooth running of the train and in severe cases, can actually damage both the track and the train. There is a greater risk of this type of sliding during the autumn leaf fall season due to reduced levels of adhesion (the rails become more slippery). When the wheel flats reach a certain size, the train has to be taken out of service. This is not unique to the Piccadilly line or indeed the Underground and presents a challenge to engineers and operations staff every year. As of this morning, the Piccadilly line is operating with over half of its train fleet unavailable as a result of flatted wheels. As a consequence, we have had to suspend customer services between Acton Town and Uxbridge on the Piccadilly line and the other parts of the line are operating at ‘Severe Delays’. We have strengthened bus services in the affected areas to help our customers and also introduced ticket acceptance until further notice. Everyone is working hard to repair the trains and get us back to a Good Service across the line as quickly as possible while trying to minimise the effect on our customers in the mean time. However, with so many trains affected, it could take some time for the line to fully recover. Clearly this is having a really significant impact for thousands of our customers and we need to take urgent action to address the root causes and get our service back to normal. To support this, Tony Matthews, the Piccadilly line General Manager has commissioned a Formal Investigation Report (FIR) into this disruption. This investigation will be forensic in its examination of the facts and will involve asset and operational staff, engineering specialists, the British Transport Police, the ORR and trade union representatives. It will seek to identify why this has happened and make recommendations that will stop it happening again. Thank you to all of the teams working hard to repair the trains and those supporting our customers through this significant disruption. Regards Steve Steve Griffiths Chief Operating Officer, London Underground
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Post by nig on Jul 28, 2017 14:53:55 GMT
What I found strange was that the line wasn't operating with an emergency timetable. This seemed to cause very uneven gaps in the service. if i seem to remember with the leaf issue out last year they was still running a normally timetable with certain trains cancelled for weeks before they finally went to an emergency timetable
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Post by nig on May 6, 2017 15:50:01 GMT
In fact, if T5 could cope with the numbers of trains, it would be better to run all Piccadilly trains to T5, and rely on the much shorter HEx shuttle to connect to and from T4. Unfortunately the interchange at T123 is not ideal for this. Why as it's quicker and no changing of trains at moment to get to t4 than 12and 3 plus carry all bags and change to shuttle why would you want to stop all pic line trains running to t4 ?
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Post by nig on May 6, 2017 15:36:52 GMT
Plus t4 is a single track so wouldn't be able to run as many trains as the dual t5 track
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Post by nig on May 6, 2017 11:14:02 GMT
Might of been asked before but why has the underground at t5 got sidings to reverse in and the overground got a crossover ?
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Post by nig on May 6, 2017 9:38:41 GMT
As a matter of interest, of trains leaving Central London westbound during the middle of the day, how many per hour run to Rayner's Lane per hour, how many via Terminal 4, and how many direct to Terminals 1-3? 6tph to T2,3 & 5 6tph via T4 6tph reverse Northfields 6tph to Rayners Lane of which: 3tph continues to Uxbridge services to T2,3 & 5 remain constant throughout the traffic day, all week which means T2 & 3 gets 12tph going back to original question if ran a loop to all stations another reason could be you would have 12tph going to all stations so be very little turn around/ recovery time so delays would probably be even worse than they are in current form and t2 and 3 seems to be the busiest station and gets more trains than 4 and 5 at the moment
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Post by nig on May 5, 2017 23:56:42 GMT
You can't go tunnelling under live runways Can't you? The T4 loop passes under the southern runway and the Heathrow Express under both. There are also road tunnels under the runways. How were they built?. So any extension to the loop would have to ............ approach T5 from the west using one of the pre-installed tunnels - which were put in as part of the T5 project As the T5 extension was built, and opened, at the same time as T5 itself, I see no reason why the Piccadilly platforms could not have been built on a different alignment, allowing a shorter loop than the one you describe (eg passing just beyond the western end of the south runway, under the terminal at 45 degrees to the runways, and then turning to run parallel to, and south of, the northern runway back to T123. and the same could be said for the overground looking here carto.metro.free.fr/cartes/metro-tram-london/index.php?station=heathrow-terminals-1-2-3 that does the same cant do all stations on one route .. the way it is it gets passengers to terminal they want quicker without stopping at all 3 and works well so cant see why you would want to put the loop to t5 train would have to have turnaround time before going on to 123
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Post by nig on Apr 17, 2017 6:10:28 GMT
Well I know they are in the tunnel section from Earls Court to Barons Court on both roads Well maybe so but the newly installed "lamps" are brighter than the sun :-) Didn't they take all the led ones out last year as they kept causing Signal failures the ones on manor house east bound are a trial for new ones
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Post by nig on Feb 26, 2017 12:14:48 GMT
Last Friday I had an interesting peak evening trip on the tube using sections of several central area lines. To say the least it calls into question the idea I have seen floated on here that the Bakerloo has slack capacity, and also emphasises the need for the Bakerloo stock to have a serious update or early replacement. Leicester square to Charing Cross on the Northeren proved quick and easy even if it was standing room only. The northern line train arrived and departed very swiftly from very busy platforms. After a rather serious hike at Charing cross over to the Bakerloo platforms, I squeezed onto a very crowded platform for a train to Baker Street. The display showed three closely spaced services - +1 +3 and +5 minutes. Given the huge crowd I was not surprised the train crawled into the platform and then suffered an extended dwell time (presumably the reason why following services had bunched up). I managed to board at the front and after a while, the driver came on the tannoy and asked people to stand behind the yellow line (which seemed a physical impossibility with the platform still so crowded), and as his announcement was only inside the train had negligible affect on the crowd still on the platform. Further annoy appeals were made by the platform staff and eventually the doors closed and we set off - after a dwell time of at least 4 minutes (so not ideal for a peak hours service). The same extended dwell time occurred at all following stations (except regents park) with the drivers announcements evidently becoming increasingly stressed - eventually followed by a request for the platform staff to come to his cab - presumably to get them to make a further appeal over the platform speaker system for people to get behind the yellow line as he could not see it was safe to close the doors. By the time we reached Baker Street I guess we had a cumulative delay well over 10 minutes. Switching to the Jubilee showed a marked contrast. The platform was equally crowded but the train hurtled into the platform, doors opened and a huge number alighted and even more squeezed on and we left within 90 seconds (84 actually). The clear implication was IF TFL want to keep the current Bakerloo stock in use for an extended period, they need to go a lot further than a cosmetic overhaul. The most significant requirement is to retrofit the sort of in cab platform video displays which ensure the driver can actually see the whole length of the train (as installed on Northern and Jubilee). I guess the platform element of this spend will be somewhere in the TFL budget pipeline as but probably only happening when replacement rolling stock was provided. However if the current Bakerloo stock is now being expected to perform for many more years, with increasingly crowded central area stations, then retrofitting the current stock with the sort of in cab video kit would probably pay for itself simply by reducing dwell times and effectively allow a much more efficient despatch of trains from crowded platforms, and be a far cheaper way to improved capacity than the alternative of installing PEDs. The do nothing option surely means these sort of extended dwell times during peak hour services on the Bakerloo are going to be an increasingly frequent occurrence. They have platform monitors or mirrors same as Piccadilly line which do the same job as in cab monitors the only difference is you can see your the platform when moving away it sounds a bit like the driver was new or being very over cautious
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Post by nig on Feb 22, 2017 14:01:31 GMT
We are paid overtime but at single rate up to 35 hours theoretically. The RMT want the overtime rate to be enhanced like the full time drivers. To me that will be unachievable. If for instance we did 4 hours overtime. The 20 hours of pay, if overtime is enhanced would be more than a TO21 doing a part time duty of 20 hours. And if overtime was allowed and we did overtime up to 35 hours, our pay would be way in excess of a TO21. Can't see how this can be justified. I don't see why it is unachievable, the only overtime drivers get is if they work past their finish time because of signal failure, etc. The chances of even getting 4 hours overtime are remote unless there were service suspensions both Friday and Saturday night. And if memory serves a lot of the NT duties get off the "second half" train anything up to an hour before the book off time so even less chance of going past into overtime. Do the part time TO21 (those that work weekends in day ) get the overtime rate if finish late if not how come RMT haven't brought this up for them before ??
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Post by nig on Feb 21, 2017 8:26:27 GMT
The problem is, the local RMT rep checks every single duty we do, makes sure we're not in a minute before 20:30 and if he hears we have done something we're not supposed to, he is banging on the door of the depot manager. The local management were kind enough to let us choose which annual leave group we wanted for 2017/18. First come first served. Everyone was happy with that apart from the RMT rep who went mental as we weren't just allocated leave periods according to agreements. Sometimes, you can't make it up. He wouldnt be doing his job if didnt check your start time and why would you want to start work before your contracted hours ?
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Post by nig on Feb 20, 2017 19:37:12 GMT
So regarding the signalling, am I right in thinking that the new trains will run on existing signalling? they will run on existing signalling to begin with then when all trains are delivered and 73s gone will run on new signaling when its installed that is .. thats the way its done on most lines i do believe
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Post by nig on Feb 16, 2017 5:41:33 GMT
Pretty sure it hasnt been changed since it was introduced in 2006 I think it was updated at least as late as 2008 since it mentions Terminal 5 (opened 2008) and "National and International Rail services" (Eurostar) at Kings Cross, which started in 2007 They must of got updated recently as have got night tube changes in them .. All the signs at heathroww station still says terminal one as do all the dot matrix train describers so would confuse passangers if took terminal one off the announcer
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Post by nig on Feb 14, 2017 15:10:08 GMT
I have two options. A. Bring the Piccadilly line into SSR (Sub-Surface Railway) signalling programme so that the whole of the Piccadilly is signalled the same. This would solve the problem both at Rayners Lane / Uxbridge and Acton Town / Ealing Common where SSR and Piccadilly share the same track. B. At Rayners Lane, build a new bay platform on the side of the existing Northbound platform, where the sidings used to exist, for the Piccadilly. A new tunnel into this bay so the Piccadilly doesn't have to touch the Uxbridge branch. Improvements to Uxbridge branch under new signalling should increase the trains per hour on the Met to cover the shortfall from the Piccadilly no longer running there. they was planning to resignal pic line but it got changed in latest contract as too expensive (b) revisions to the technical signalling solution on some of the sections where tracks are shared with other services: i. the Wimbledon branch of the District line, which is Network Rail managed, will now have an ATC signalling overlay rather than full resignalling (matching the established solution for the Richmond branch and consequently reducing design variants); ii. Piccadilly Line trains will not be fitted with new signalling equipment; iii. the section of the Piccadilly line between Rayners Lane Junction and Hanger Lane Junction will no longer be resignalled by the Programme; and iv. the signalling solution for the interoperable sections of the SSR and Piccadilly lines will include conventional signals to allow for continued operation of Piccadilly services on these sections. This solution will provide a suitable starting point for the subsequent New Tube for London Programme modernisation of the Piccadilly line; and as for new tunnel think that will work out bit expensive which cant see them getting funds for .. also cant see the pic line causing much of a delay driving manually down to uxbridge
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Post by nig on Feb 14, 2017 12:43:03 GMT
From the New Tube for London (NTFL), there will be "60% more capacity" available on the Piccadilly (Pic) Line. I use the word available because I am not sure whether all of that will be used up straight away or not. tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tube-improvements/what-we-are-doing/improving-the-trainsThe Metropolitan (Met) Line is due to have improved frequencies too: tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/improvements-and-projects/four-lines-modernisation?intcmp=37984I was thinking the other day about congestion at Rayners Lane/ Uxbridge. Right now, there is often a little congestion between South Harrow/ West Harrow and Rayners Lane. How will TFL manage the route if frequencies on both lines are increased? I was thinking we will see more Pic trains terminating at South Harrow but this isn't ideal because of the layout of the sidings. Trains can be terminated at Ruislip, but again, this may cause the same congestion similar to that at Lane. So what exactly are TFL planning, or am I missing something here? Are the improved frequencies on the Pic line for the Heathrow branch only? Can Uxbridge cope on its own with an increase in turn arounds? You can use both platforms at south harrow to reverse in so dont need to use the sidings but the problem would be most people want to go onto the uxbridge branch and without going rayners will have no way of getting there Think the plan is (or was ) to carry on running trains to uxbridge even if new trains have to be driven manually on it
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