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Post by spsmiler on Mar 18, 2021 22:02:26 GMT
boo if all trains will soon be all stations - sad news. Its bad enough that this is already the off-peak situation. re: the impending longer trains, I must dust down my camcorder for present-day length trains. I'll be shopping in Ilford later this week... It’s been the off peak situation for quite a few years now though. If they plan to run semi-fast services in the west, I don’t see why they can’t do it in the east. It would also be nice to get the peak service level back to what it was 30 years ago! Whenever I have compared services today to those of 30 years ago I've been told that the service is as intense as it could be. No-one seem to believe otherwise. I know that train frequency is less than it used to be because I lived it 30 years ago - and still have a 1982 timetable book. I do not have the data in front of me at the moment but it is something like 6 trains per hour in the rush hours (including some trains which terminated in the bay platform at Ilford) fewer today than there used to be. Is it any wonder that before the pandemic services became so overcrowded that passengers would be left behind? I was always told that it was because passenger numbers had risen - this may be true but its not the true reason. I feel sure that especially passengers who travel to Stratford or Liverpool St to / from stations Romford and onwards will feel very put out / short changed at the loss of faster services - six extra stations* (Maryland, Forest Gate, Manor Park, Seven Kings, Goodmayes and Chadwell Heath) and noticeably longer journey times. *(Even more when services start travelling underground - Whitechapel) It would have been far better had local services (so called 'Shenfield Metro') not been hived off from East Anglia services and instead just as the west will include trains to Reading off-peak services to the east of London included trains to Southend On Sea^ and some Great Eastern Main Line destinations. (^ie: retaining the off-peak Stratford, Ilford, Romford and then all stations service)
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 18, 2021 21:32:02 GMT
Golders Blue (when talking about Golders Green)
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 14, 2021 19:58:17 GMT
boo if all trains will soon be all stations - sad news. Its bad enough that this is already the off-peak situation.
re: the impending longer trains, I must dust down my camcorder for present-day length trains. I'll be shopping in Ilford later this week...
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 13, 2021 11:55:11 GMT
Thanks for the replies ... certainly at busy times the northern side of the Circle (Aldgate - Baker Street) can become so swamped with trains that they are constantly catching up the train in front and therefore having to travel 'more slowly'. Automation allowing trains to travel more closely to each other will increase train capacity - but on a route with closely spaced stations it won't increase speeds.
But at quieter times the gaps between trains is wide enough for this to not happen, and this is when lower speed limits will be the reason for increased journey times.
Some passengers will not notice, others will!
My reference to speed limits which were previously deemed as 'safe' now, decades later, being deemed as 'unsafe' is a comment transferred from the situation regarding road traffic where advocacy of slowness with speed limit reductions has become commonplace.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 13, 2021 11:43:21 GMT
I asked Nigel at the Fourth Rail Shapeways shop if he would consider offering something 3D printed for the suicide pit.
He said that he had thought of this but instead decided to use the Peco inspection pit plus sections of Evergreen Box section tubing for the piers.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 12, 2021 23:04:56 GMT
I know its not exactly the best of views, but passengers are used to seeing the passing tunnel walls and prefer this to no windows!
Also, as has been said already, windows on trains are useful at stations - not just to know where you are (which admittedly can be found out from electronic information inside the train, if it is working!) but for orientation such as seeing the platform exit, where people are waiting on the platform, and so much more.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 12, 2021 22:55:45 GMT
Interesting speed graphs. Generally it looks convincing that westbound is faster overall It's a mixed bag really. For example the EB graph shows a slower CBTC speed from Farringdon to Barbican (30mph vs 40 mph) but few if any trains would reach that speed under legacy signalling. The same applies in reverse too, Farringdon to King's X WB shows a significant uplift in CBTC speed but the train I was on yesterday didn't exceed 35 mph in that area which is comparable to legacy signalling. For the most part SMA 3 feels exactly the same as it did before and any marginal journey time savings are cancelled out by holding time as the service is still running to the existing timetable. When running times are adjusted and timetables recast, I'm sure these differences will become more discernible. Very disappointing that the eastbound is actually slower than before - if it was not for the faster speed between Kings Cross and Farringdon the overall speed limit reduction would have been even more significant! I am baffled as to why there should be any speed limit reductions anywhere - it almost implies that the previous speed limits were not safe, or is it that trains never ever reached the previous limits whilst under CBTC they might have done so - but this happening was felt to be 'undesirable'.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 8, 2021 20:32:53 GMT
Sheringham is an example of a preserved railway being linked by a level crossing to the national network. It can only be used on a very limited number of occasions each year. It is not signalled and there are no gates. So is Epping! As far as I am aware, so far this has only been used once (in each direction)
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 8, 2021 20:23:12 GMT
I suspect it will come down to resource availability, and in particular whether it’s deemed for the best allocation of those resources to be directed towards Night Tube as opposed to other times of day. Especially training resources - there’s a massive training backlog, and it simply doesn’t stack up to use your training resources on people who require the same amount of training as anyone else, but are only 40% productive. I suspect that in addition to financial etc., resources being available it will also partly depend on whether the Mayor of London (whoever that is when the decision needs taking) wants Night Tube to be reinstated.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 8, 2021 20:17:14 GMT
Anyone notice any key differences, especially on the journey between kings cross and Farringdon? Also, I know there's a clear reasoning for doing so but I cannot understand why the Met requires ATO north of Finchley road 😂 Some trains do each in excess of 62mph on some sections of the met (e.g. Finchley to Wembley) and I hope ATO does not slow this down The previous line speed from King's Cross-Farringdon was 40mph, constrained by legacy signalling; the maximum CBTC speed for a short while in this section is 52mph. Between Finchley Road and Wembley the maximum permitted speed is 60mph and S Stock are limited in maximum speed in manual operation. Back in the day when I sometimes got myself into the cab (on my way to school) of westbound Amersham trains I recall the train often going faster than 40mph between Farringdon and Kings Cross. As for the route north of Finchley Road, will there still be an enforced stop for all trains - even when on what are supposed to be non-stop runs - at a location away from a station for swapping between manual and ATO?
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 7, 2021 22:22:21 GMT
Of all the connections that have come as a result of Crossrail, Barbican has to be the most bizzare. The original plans entailed a new footbridge linking the WB and EB SSR platforms with the lift connection down to Crossrail. This was later dropped due to the difficulties of construction between surrounding buildings and the narrow clearances involved. This leaves the somewhat tenuous connection from the WB platform. I can't think of a step-free journey combination that would make Barbican advantageous apart from perhaps Tower Hill to Crossrail in the Westbound direction only. Its ages since I last used Euston Square station but I thought that this station also only has an accessibility lift which serves one direction of travel. Passengers cannot even catch a Circle line train nowadays for a one-seat ride almost all the way round the Circle as an alternative solution.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 4, 2021 19:37:15 GMT
These trains will revolutionise how passengers travel - especially those who like to be by the single doors at car ends!
It would be nice if the 'thin blue "accent" stripe' was in line colour depending on line served.
Will the 100 km/h speed ever be reached? (Piccadilly / Central / Bakerloo lines only ... erm, I'd rather not be on a train even trying to reach that speed on the W&C route!!!)
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 3, 2021 19:19:02 GMT
Hmm, I've never heard of the London Underground leaving passengers behind because the train is too heavy and therefore cannot travel! There were many occasions during the early introduction of D Stock that trains were “tipped out”, “detrained” at Bow Road westbound due to the doors failing to close or even budge when fully loaded. It was thought that the cars left Birmingham in with a slight upward curve to the under-frame and with a heavy complement of passengers this straightened out the under-frame but then buckled the door apertures. After adjusting the door runners, the problem gradually disappeared as the cars aged. Oh my goodness - I've heard of clothes shop sales staff suggesting that something they are trying to sell which is brand-new and also very slightly ill-fitting will 'fit perfectly with wear' but never expected this to apply to trains too !!
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 3, 2021 19:12:16 GMT
Possibly it was installed to avoid something else, such as the now removed signal box?
Whatever the reason, its either going to be removed 'soon' or after someone hits their head and sues for damages.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 2, 2021 22:19:24 GMT
I was in Ilford Town centre today - the new Ilford Hill station building is still closed (I was not expecting it to be open but thought that as I was so close to it I'd take a look) and for the first time in a while I saw people working at the main station entrance in Cranbrook Road. Nevertheless it still remains little more than a metal girder frame structure over an empty parcel of land.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 2, 2021 22:12:40 GMT
Thanks for the replies.
Simon
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 2, 2021 12:15:48 GMT
With automation creeping further around the Circle I am looking forward to bring able to get views of ground signal EH900 at Embankment in action. Years ago I recall watching a similar signal at Whitechapel but it was removed before I got around to filming it. Why? The same reason as I filmed things like bulb lighting lampshades 'many decades ago'. Future nostalgia etc... I doubt that it will be preserved Whitechapel will certainly be cannibalised to keep other N style frames still on the network in use. Hmm, well I suppose that it makes a change from having to ask a museum to remove items from a display so that they can be used as a source of spare parts! Of note is Liverpool Street Interlocking Machine Room (IMR) which will be switched out for the final time this weekend. The building that houses the IMR has been in use since 1875 first as a signal box (re-fitted 1910 and 1954), then as an IMR controlled from Farringdon (1956-2001) then Baker Street (2001-Present). So it is almost time to say 'bye bye' to this signal - but what about the rail gap indicator? C-LiverpoolSt-P1120837One of many photographs which I added to Flickr yesterday (1st March 2021).
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 2, 2021 11:55:00 GMT
In a message in the SSR Resignalling thread a reference is made to the lifting of lockdown on Monday 8th March so that we can travel on the trains again, even for 'non-essential' journeys.
I knew that some schools were opening on that day, but not about the relaxation of travel restrictions. Is this really so? (I've quite literally 'lost track' of the forthcoming changes and when this was going to happen!)
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 1, 2021 19:48:10 GMT
I have seen an email on a railgen site saying that this coming weekend another chunk of the SSR will be automated.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 1, 2021 19:43:02 GMT
I wonder if the current configuration will continue? I'm looking out over the GN suburban, and I do feel rather sorry for the operator shuttling 12/8 indivisible carriages of fresh air around, not much more than a year after the 3-car 313s got retired I think that everyone is desperately hoping that by Christmas the entire length of the trains will be needed - even if not yet back at 'crush loads'.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 1, 2021 19:38:44 GMT
Are you sure Russell Square isn't built with side platforms? Side platforms are different from being stacked. Yes, Baker Street iirc used to have only 3 deep-level platforms. When the Jubilee line came another was added. Surely Baker Street Bakerloo line originally only had two deep level tube platforms with the third platform opening when the deep level route to Finchley Road was built?
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 1, 2021 19:29:22 GMT
Many people see maglevs as offering a futuristic type of urban railway which needs significantly less line inspection and therefore is cheaper to operate. This is in comparison with steel wheel railways which need constant checks on the state of the tracks, the rail fixings, etc. Real-world experience with maglevs however is not quite as rose-tinted as one might think.
Apparently the Japanese Linimo urban maglev cannot carry crush loads of passengers - because there will not be enough lift for it to rise up and float over the ground. Hmm, I've never heard of the London Underground leaving passengers behind because the train is too heavy and therefore cannot travel!
(crush loads and simply 'full up' is a different issue)
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 1, 2021 14:34:59 GMT
Thanks for the suggestion. I had thought of either trying to create this myself, perhaps using balsa wood or asking someone like Fourth Rail if he could add this to his Shapeways range of LU products, one constraint could be the need for measurements / a scaled plan.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 1, 2021 14:24:32 GMT
I wonder if the question is about the type of station seen on many new-build urban metros, which is basically a box with two tracks and outside platforms - and often roof supports in the gap between the tracks.
The answer to that is no - I actually pondered this last summer when visiting the Tyne & Wear metro. It struck me that whilst their north - south alignment city centre stations are basically identical to the deep level 'tube train stations' we have here in London there are some subterranean new-build stations (especially on the east-west alignment) which are of a configuration that I could not recall seeing anywhere in London.
So... whilst we in London have box-like stations with flat sides & roofs (such as Redbridge and Hatton Cross) ours here all have island platforms.
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 23, 2021 21:53:03 GMT
Will you also be doing this for the 1930's Art Deco station platforms?
Stations such as Highgate (low level), Swiss Cottage, Wanstead, Wood Green, Kings Cross St Pancras (subsurface lines, albeit sadly now replaced as part of a ghastly 'modernisation').
Simon
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 22, 2021 21:54:10 GMT
Very, very interesting. I very much like this - there were 40-odd stations built to this iconic identical core design. I note that you model ballasted track - instead of the suicide pit below the tracks at deep level tube stations (except Moorgate - Essex Road).
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 22, 2021 18:46:24 GMT
Thanks stapler for the info about the steam locos. re: the trains with the Standard Stock, alas by the time I saw them only a few were still in service - instead they were also using some 1967ts Victoria line trains. Therefore I never got to see the other colours. I wonder if anyone took colour photos back then - even grainy 110 film piccies would have been better than nothing.
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 22, 2021 18:42:24 GMT
There's also a reason for the red aspect being at the bottom of the signal. Remember there was a tragic crash on the Brighton Line in 1977/78 when a main line express collided with the one in front during snow. The cause was the red aspect had been obscured by snow building up on the shroud of the aspect below it. the Brighton line signals were amongst the first used on the former Southern Railway and had the red light 2nd from the bottom. I read elsewhere that the term is "arbor lights" for route indicators as the Latin term. I always thought it was harbour lights! Signals on the Great Eastern Main Line out of Liverpool Street station used to be like that - red one up from the bottom. Somewhere I have a photo showing this. I do not have a photo of a LU combined stop and distant signal, these have 4 aspects with the stop signal using the top two aspects and the distant signal using the lower two aspects. I recall seeing one (maybe even several) of these just outside of Leyton station, many years ago - as eastbound trains exit the tunnel they encounter a sharp right-hand curve before arriving at Leyton station and in the days before the line was resignalled for automation I used to be able to see these signals whilst enjoying a driver's eye view of the route ahead. Usually I would see two green lamps (ie: both home and distant), but sometimes the home was green and the distant was yellow / amber, and occasionally solely the home signal lamp was illuminated - and red. The combined signals here actually comprised two twin-aspect signal heads slightly staggered in a way which I suppose was designed to ensure that a build-up of snow would not block the view of the red.
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 14, 2021 19:57:36 GMT
I’ve heard horror stories about hauliers adding extra costs to the order to cover border fees. I’ve been trying to order a D78 car and it’s being blocked due to border issues! Very frustrating! out of interest, who (at Shapeways) sells D78 trains? The people who I have seen do not have these trains. The Bluebell Railway sell 3D models of the Ashbury etc trains which they own and sometimes come to London - as far as I'm aware these carriages are not sold by Radleys. www.shapeways.com/shops/bluebellmodelrailwayshop?li=pb
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 14, 2021 13:28:12 GMT
I'll check my sources, but I think steam was still being used on the goods trains in 60 and 61, usually l=hauled by tripcock fitted J15s. Certainly till 1970, the early DMUs operating the Loughton to Liverpool St main station service were sharing the track with the automatic trains, as the LT notices called them. Thanks, I look forward to learning exactly when steam was replaced by diesel. re: the DMU's, by 1970 the goods trains were history. I wonder how the signalling system would have managed has the BR trains still been running when the route was converted to full ATO for the 1992ts.
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