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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 6, 2021 21:43:09 GMT
We've definitely been busier over the last couple of weeks. I lost my "door closed visual" a few times this evening because some muppet leaning on the doors, I didn't have that once from the start of lockdown in March last year until last week.
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Post by Chris L on Apr 7, 2021 13:25:25 GMT
We've definitely been busier over the last couple of weeks. I lost my "door closed visual" a few times this evening because some muppet leaning on the doors, I didn't have that once from the start of lockdown in March last year until last week. Made a couple of train journeys this week. Certainly more people travelling which is not surprising given the advice is now stay local. The Police interpretation of this is where you can go there and back in the day. Most people were wearing masks over their nose and mouth.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 7, 2021 15:36:29 GMT
I took the Goblin from Leyton Midland Road to Barking around 12 noon today, it was busier than I've seen it at any time since March last year - I've been doing this trip every week to do grocery shopping for Old Mother shrugged who still lives in the 'Nam. It might be because the schools are out for Easter but passenger numbers appear to be going up although still a long way from "normal".
From the ASLEF whatsapp, there's a meeting tomorrow between LUL management and Trains Functional Council to discuss Night Tube. Also yesterday I met a Night Tube trainee who had restarted training they started last year but was paused due to Covid. A lot of NT TOps have gone full time but it seems that numbers are being kept up
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 9, 2021 12:35:02 GMT
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on Apr 9, 2021 12:48:59 GMT
Not surprising. It’s very much in the too difficult box, and they’re absolutely right to be prioritising resources where the most value can be derived. I’d say it’s still a fair bet that at some point a “difficult decision” will be taken not to restore it.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 10, 2021 9:52:38 GMT
I don't think anyone wants to be the "the Mayor who got rid of Night Tube" considering how Ken was labelled "the Mayor who got rid of the Routemaster".
At the Night Tube meeting last week ASLEF put forward a proposal that Night Tube duties should be incorporated into the full time roster, that drivers working those shifts should be paid 50% extra for the hours worked outside the current agreed parameters and that any of the part-timers that wanted to go full time can do so while those that want to stick to part time "will be accommodated using reasonable adjustments to allow them to retain employment". We've not heard what management thought of it but if I hear anything I'll pass it on.
On the subject of Routemasters it seems that TfL have quietly killed off Heritage route 15. In 2019 they cut the service from daily to weekends and Bank Holidays March - September but it didn't run last year due to Covid and they didn't renew the contract with Stagecoach. Apparently passenger numbers had been falling and it was costing £11 per passenger to operate, with money tight at TfL is was regarded as an unnecessary expense. Bit of a shame.
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Post by johnlinford on Apr 10, 2021 10:06:41 GMT
Bit of a shame but hard to justify London's travellers subsidising what is essential a tourist experience by £9.50 a go even when cash isn't tight!
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Post by superteacher on Apr 10, 2021 10:14:05 GMT
Whilst the news about Routemaster operation is relevant to TFL’s finances, continued discussion about buses is beyond the scope of the forum.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 29, 2021 19:51:03 GMT
LU sending message to Staff this evening re-Waterloo & City Line:
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Apr 29, 2021 19:59:50 GMT
LU sending message to Staff this evening re-Waterloo & City Line: I take this will be around 21 June , when step 4 of the road map is due to take place.
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hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
Posts: 516
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Post by hobbayne on Apr 30, 2021 9:29:21 GMT
Night tube will not return until next year. ASLEF are negotiating that existing nite tubers will be offered full time contracts if they want it. The night tube (When it returns) will be incorporated into the full time roster. I dont know where this leaves people who have successfully passed the interview and assessments for TO23.
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Post by nig on Apr 30, 2021 18:04:47 GMT
Night tube will not return until next year. ASLEF are negotiating that existing nite tubers will be offered full time contracts if they want it. The night tube (When it returns) will be incorporated into the full time roster. I dont know where this leaves people who have successfully passed the interview and assessments for TO23. They will be offered full time roles All night tube drivers will be full train operators or day weekends drivers on 16th of may unless they want to stay as thetly are
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Post by brigham on May 1, 2021 7:32:55 GMT
"...incorporated into the full-time roster"
What an extraordinary notion.
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 1, 2021 8:50:09 GMT
Back in 2015 management wanted Night Tube to be part of the "full-time roster", in July that year they offered a £500 bonus to all grades working on Night Tube lines plus Train Operators got a £200 bonus for every NT shift worked during the transition period which would have been a year or there abouts. If the unions had accepted that deal Night Tube would have started in September 2015 and we'd have been working Night Tube at the standard rate for the last five years.
Instead they hired the part timers who will now have the opportunity to go full time and we'll be getting the equivalent of 3 days pay for working two night shifts. According to the proposal the Night Tube shifts will be roughly every 12 weeks on the roster but obviously those who don't want to work them are concerned that they won't be able to swap them through the Mafias, etc. ASLEF support the proposals but RMT wouldn't even attend the last Trains Functional Council meeting or provide any feedback from the proposals so the issue is being escalated to Company Council.
Rumours that the reduced peak time service on W&C will have 14 duties, down from the current 20 so some of the Drain regulars are moaning that there won't be enough to go around and they'll have to do more work on the Main!
The horror, the horror...
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Post by PiccNT on May 1, 2021 9:35:22 GMT
Back in 2015 management wanted Night Tube to be part of the "full-time roster", in July that year they offered a £500 bonus to all grades working on Night Tube lines plus Train Operators got a £200 bonus for every NT shift worked during the transition period which would have been a year or there abouts. If the unions had accepted that deal Night Tube would have started in September 2015 and we'd have been working Night Tube at the standard rate for the last five years. Instead they hired the part timers who will now have the opportunity to go full time and we'll be getting the equivalent of 3 days pay for working two night shifts. According to the proposal the Night Tube shifts will be roughly every 12 weeks on the roster but obviously those who don't want to work them are concerned that they won't be able to swap them through the Mafias, etc. ASLEF support the proposals but RMT wouldn't even attend the last Trains Functional Council meeting or provide any feedback from the proposals so the issue is being escalated to Company Council. Rumours that the reduced peak time service on W&C will have 14 duties, down from the current 20 so some of the Drain regulars are moaning that there won't be enough to go around and they'll have to do more work on the Main! The horror, the horror... And on the Picc, a number of Night Tube drivers that are RMT members are switching to ASLEF as they don't believe that the RMT are looking after their interests. There are a few questions not answered on the proposals. At my depot, we have "fixed linked" rosters, i.e. a separate roster for dead early duties, dead late duties and the main roster that's a mix of early and late turns. We currently don't have any night turn duties. Not quite sure where the Night Tube duties will fit in or whether we will also get weekday night duties. The current system with separate rosters for Night Tube and Day Tube had its own problems. An "oil and water" agreement whereby Night Tube staff couldn't drive a train that was on the day roster and vice versa and instructors not being able to work beyond 01:30 caused issues when NT staff required additional training. The new proposal makes sense and if there are sufficient volunteers, it should be easier to manage.
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 1, 2021 10:08:28 GMT
Page 5 of the Proposal says "The allocation of night tube duties at depots that have fixed shift links will be discussed by the level one committee." As none of this will come into effect until next year at the earliest that gives management and unions (well, ASLEF) plenty of time to sort out the details
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rincew1nd
Administrator
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Post by rincew1nd on May 1, 2021 10:47:24 GMT
According to the proposal the Night Tube shifts will be roughly every 12 weeks on the roster but obviously those who don't want to work them are concerned that they won't be able to swap them through the Mafias, etc. ASLEF support the proposals but RMT wouldn't even attend the last Trains Functional Council meeting or provide any feedback from the proposals so the issue is being escalated to Company Council. Rumours that the reduced peak time service on W&C will have 14 duties, down from the current 20 so some of the Drain regulars are moaning that there won't be enough to go around and they'll have to do more work on the Main! The horror, the horror... My respect for the RMT continues to decrease, at least ASLEF are engaging. I understand to some extent that those who don't like working at a certain time (for instance they may have arranged childcare around a regular pattern) will object, however I have little sympathy for those whose shift times will hardly change but will just be expected to actually do their job.
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 1, 2021 14:42:20 GMT
According to the proposal the Night Tube shifts will be roughly every 12 weeks on the roster but obviously those who don't want to work them are concerned that they won't be able to swap them through the Mafias, etc. ASLEF support the proposals but RMT wouldn't even attend the last Trains Functional Council meeting or provide any feedback from the proposals so the issue is being escalated to Company Council. Rumours that the reduced peak time service on W&C will have 14 duties, down from the current 20 so some of the Drain regulars are moaning that there won't be enough to go around and they'll have to do more work on the Main! The horror, the horror... My respect for the RMT continues to decrease, at least ASLEF are engaging. I understand to some extent that those who don't like working at a certain time (for instance they may have arranged childcare around a regular pattern) will object, however I have little sympathy for those whose shift times will hardly change but will just be expected to actually do their job. Under the current TO21 framework agreement driving trains in passenger service between 01:30 and 04:30 is not actually part of our job unless it's a "Special event" like New Year's Eve, its voluntary and we get paid double. RMT's problem is they represent all grades, if they agreed to additional payments for train drivers then station staff, etc. will ask why they aren't getting additional payments. ASLEF only represents train drivers so station staff, etc. isn't an issue
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on May 2, 2021 1:31:08 GMT
There's a lot of praise for ASLEF over this night tube amalgamation with full timers business....
Many of us ASLEF members are unimpressed with the situation as the whole thing has been instigated by ASLEF and, following a number of meetings, an agreement has made by ASLEF with LU.
When did they consult with their members before deciding to go to LU and set all this up?! It's no surprise that RMT haven't managed to get involved - ASLEF have taken it upon themselves to cook this whole thing up with LU without seeking any sort of mandate to do so!
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 2, 2021 1:53:04 GMT
There's a lot of praise for ASLEF over this night tube amalgamation with full timers business.... Many of us ASLEF members are unimpressed with the situation as the whole thing has been instigated by ASLEF and, following a number of meetings, an agreement has made by ASLEF with LU. When did they consult with their members before deciding to go to LU and set all this up?! It's no surprise that RMT haven't managed to get involved - ASLEF have taken it upon themselves to cook this whole thing up with LU without seeking any sort of mandate to do so! The whole thing has been instigated by TfL, they are desperately short of drivers and are under pressure from the government/Mayor of London to recover from Covid as soon as possible. The quickest way to do that is to convert as many TO23s into TO21s as possible, cutting out the recruitment and training stages. ASLEF never wanted part-time drivers but they wouldn't agree to us doing Night Tube without additional payments after the "transition period". The part timers were management's idea when ASLEF wouldn't accept their original offer. ASLEF represent the majority of train ops, RMT just rubber stamp whatever ASLEF agrees and then says they we forced to accept it as the smaller union
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on May 2, 2021 1:58:08 GMT
There's a lot of praise for ASLEF over this night tube amalgamation with full timers business.... Many of us ASLEF members are unimpressed with the situation as the whole thing has been instigated by ASLEF and, following a number of meetings, an agreement has made by ASLEF with LU. When did they consult with their members before deciding to go to LU and set all this up?! It's no surprise that RMT haven't managed to get involved - ASLEF have taken it upon themselves to cook this whole thing up with LU without seeking any sort of mandate to do so! I must say the whole thing is rather surprising. I certainly get the impression a lot of people aren’t overly happy about it. Without wishing to reignite too much of a debate about the rights and wrongs of this, reality is the two things most people dislike working are weekends and nights, so it seems counter-intuitive for a union to be working on something which seems to result in an increase in both. One can only assume that it’s a case of some kind of ultimatum having been given behind the scenes - the only way a pay rise will happen is agree to this. From an LU perspective there was always going to be a big issue over night tube - with Covid having caused a massive backlog in training it was never going to be viable to utilise training resources on people who would only be 40% productive get require 100% cost / utilisation of training resource to get to that point.
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
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Post by Colin on May 2, 2021 2:04:41 GMT
The whole thing has been instigated by TfL Hmm.....ok. The way it’s been painted in our neck of the woods it was all ASLEF’s idea and we should be grateful for what they’ve achieved. All I keep seeing on our local Union WhatsApp group is “why wasn’t we consulted before ASLEF came to an agreement on our behalf over an issue we weren’t aware was being discussed?”. The general feeling seems to be that ASLEF has misjudged the true feelings of its members and has agreed to something we don’t actually support.
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Post by nig on May 2, 2021 9:58:27 GMT
There's a lot of praise for ASLEF over this night tube amalgamation with full timers business.... Many of us ASLEF members are unimpressed with the situation as the whole thing has been instigated by ASLEF and, following a number of meetings, an agreement has made by ASLEF with LU. When did they consult with their members before deciding to go to LU and set all this up?! It's no surprise that RMT haven't managed to get involved - ASLEF have taken it upon themselves to cook this whole thing up with LU without seeking any sort of mandate to do so! Management have been in talks since January with unions what to do with night tube . This proposal was from Alslef and the RMT were involved and on board with the idea till last 2 meetings when they decided they changed there minds and not attend the only other option was to keep night tube and only about 15 go full time the other 100 odd would have to stay on night tube for over a year as the back log in training would be for full time only and need to keep night tube drivers for when night tube comes back . The secondments night tube were doing was meant to be tempory and meant 3 normal shifts and 2 weekend night turns and if they was off work for any reason they would revert back to night tube conditions meaning 2 day's pay also there pensions were still at night tube rate. ASLEF had a meeting with all the IR reps and it was unanimously agreed to do the deal the reason night tube having a premium payment if you do want to do them it should be easy enough to get rid of them also and they would only be on rota every 12 weeks with a lot of depots even less .if your depot hasn't got night tube nothing to worry about for a while we have been fully informed on our local Watts app group
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hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
Posts: 516
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Post by hobbayne on May 2, 2021 10:05:32 GMT
I hope the extra money for rejigged night tube service is enough to tempt some of our drivers into doing them. We used to have nights, but they never ran trains after 1 am or before 4.30 am. I certainly am not looking forward to this.
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Post by nig on May 2, 2021 10:16:24 GMT
I hope the extra money for rejigged night tube service is enough to tempt some of our drivers into doing them. We used to have nights, but they never ran trains after 1 am or before 4.30 am. I certainly am not looking forward to this. 3 and a half hours extra . Most lines have trains running til 1.30 at moment and ones without night tube have weekends nights that's come out from 4.30 and stable till 2am so only difference is you will be in passenger service during those times
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 2, 2021 10:46:29 GMT
The problem with the TO23 grade is that very few of them want to stay TO23s, the majority only take the job as a stepping stone to TO21 after their initial period (6 months, a year, can't remember) so there is a constant turnover which must create a lot of extra admin. With a shortage of TO21s and political pressure from above its fairly understandable why management would want to scrap the TO23 grade and have as many as possible convert to TO21s. Ideally they'd scrap Night Tube too but once again that would be politically damaging for the Mayor, etc. so isn't an option.
Management want it, the TO23s want it and as PiccNT noted earlier RMTs opposition to the proposal is resulting in some members leaving so ASLEF are happy as they're getting more members (unless TO21s start going to RMT)
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Post by PiccNT on May 14, 2021 9:35:37 GMT
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 14, 2021 13:31:20 GMT
BBC's transport correspondent Tom Edwards on Twitter saying that the Waterloo and City will reopen 21 June, I don't book on until 16:45 so I will check then
Addendum: There was nothing when I went into work but its been confirmed by various sources.
WTT7 had 26 duties Monday-Friday, 21 running turns and five spares but we are told that the peak service will only need 14 duties so there's going to be a lot of unhappy Drainites. Leytonstone could look like "The Hunger Games".
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 24, 2021 15:28:31 GMT
BBC's transport correspondent Tom Edwards on Twitter saying that the Waterloo and City will reopen 21 June, I don't book on until 16:45 so I will check then Addendum: There was nothing when I went into work but its been confirmed by various sources. WTT7 had 26 duties Monday-Friday, 21 running turns and five spares but we are told that the peak service will only need 14 duties so there's going to be a lot of unhappy Drainites. Leytonstone could look like "The Hunger Games". W&C trains start running empty on 14 June 2021 with TTN139/21, passenger services resume on 21 June
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 25, 2021 5:19:24 GMT
H&S Reps from Leytonstone visiting the W&C tomorrow (Wednesday) with management for an inspection.
LU was advertising for IOps a few weeks ago as unsurprisingly quite a few of the senior drivers who retired over the last 12 months were IOps. Added to the difficulties of training under Covid restrictions it could be a long time before we have enough drivers to run a full service
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