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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Mar 13, 2020 13:50:33 GMT
In light of recent developments concerning the diagnosis of Covid 19 on a member of London Underground Staff, we'd like to remind posters that it’s OK to discuss the operational impact of the virus on the day to day running of the Underground and associated transport modes (that are part of the forum remit), but we DO NOT want to see idle speculation, comment or panic about the medical side of things as they are outside our 'raison d'être'. In short, lets stick to talking about trains, but if you really have to, any discussion about this subject should be on this thread only. pp Admin
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 13, 2020 14:16:55 GMT
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Post by zbang on Mar 13, 2020 16:39:03 GMT
How has traffic been affected? Out here (San Francisco) BART is reporting ridership is down 25-50% (at a loss of $3.5M/week; their farebox recovery is something over 70%) and other systems have similar reports. (The city has banned gatherings of over, IIRC, 500 people, and many companies have told employees to work from home if they can. At least the small pubs are still open.)
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 13, 2020 19:23:08 GMT
Until today its been pretty much business as usual during the peaks but noticeably less busy in the off peak. Tonight my train left White City around 4:40pm going east, all the way through the "pipe" it was really quiet - although that could be because its Friday and people have used the virus as an excuse to have a long weekend.
I you ever wanted to see "Hamilton" or book a table at the Chiltern Firehouse then this might be the perfect time.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 13, 2020 19:43:00 GMT
In terms of the District line (and c2c) it has been noticably quiet in the peaks as the week has gone on.
I gather today a number of office based companies were trialling a work-at-home test hence today has been particularly quiet compared to a normal working weekday.
It is likely we'll continue to see a reduced number of customers over the next week or so at least as companies take it upon themselves to ask their staff to work from home.
In terms of the revenue impact; whilst it will inevitably be down on what is normal, many of our regular customers use monthly or annual pre paid tickets so their loss will be LU's gain to some extent.
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Post by roman80 on Mar 13, 2020 21:21:37 GMT
As one perspective, the bank I work for has about 5,000 people in Canary Wharf. A back up site outside London which sits permanently ready with 600 seats was activated as of a week and a half ago. It is only reachable by car or rail practically from central London. Businesses that have seats there have split their staff three ways. One third there, one third in CW and one third working at home. Of the 3,000 not in the above, 1500 are formally working at home. The balance are still coming to the office some days, working at home others. Many clients only want meetings via audio or video as well. Testing shows everyone in Europe at the bank can work from home without server capacity markedly degrading. More server capacity was added this week with a failsafe to prioritise who gets 'load shedded' if there is a server outage or similar. I manage a team of about 250 and the feedback from them is that it will be hard to go back to commuting five days a week when this ends. We are doing many team calls by video conference and at the click of a button our office phone rings on our mobile or home phone as we want. Same when we want to call someone. Click a button on my workpc and my mobile rings, as does the phone of whoever I am calling. That is some Cisco app called Jabber I think. One of my team is flying to Brazil on Sunday and will work remotely London hours for the next month and visit her parents. Another chap has gone to his home in Yorkshire. Others are planning similar. Will be interesting to see the long term effect of this on commuting.
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Post by stapler on Mar 13, 2020 22:00:58 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised to see a Sunday timetable all week,to balance LU staff off work ill and fewer commuters - every day like the 27th of December
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Post by goldenarrow on Mar 13, 2020 22:46:00 GMT
Significantly muted flows at Heathrow Airport this week, most weekdays have the feel of weekends according to colleagues. The 8AM and 4PM peaks mainly catering for transatlantic flights have all but fizzled out.
Passenger levels have dipped this week by around five percent through the airport as a whole according to initial statistics. The airports view is that several airlines operations are unsustainable with such suppressed demand and “scaling back of operations over the next three months is inevitable”.
We have been told not to develop staffing plans for flow increases for major sporting and music events in the Summer on the “highly likely probability that these will be deferred or cancelled altogether” from the DH&SC.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Mar 13, 2020 23:56:09 GMT
As one perspective, the bank I work for has about 5,000 people in Canary Wharf. A back up site outside London which sits permanently ready with 600 seats was activated as of a week and a half ago. It is only reachable by car or rail practically from central London. Businesses that have seats there have split their staff three ways. One third there, one third in CW and one third working at home. Of the 3,000 not in the above, 1500 are formally working at home. The balance are still coming to the office some days, working at home others. Many clients only want meetings via audio or video as well. Testing shows everyone in Europe at the bank can work from home without server capacity markedly degrading. More server capacity was added this week with a failsafe to prioritise who gets 'load shedded' if there is a server outage or similar. I manage a team of about 250 and the feedback from them is that it will be hard to go back to commuting five days a week when this ends. We are doing many team calls by video conference and at the click of a button our office phone rings on our mobile or home phone as we want. Same when we want to call someone. Click a button on my workpc and my mobile rings, as does the phone of whoever I am calling. That is some Cisco app called Jabber I think. One of my team is flying to Brazil on Sunday and will work remotely London hours for the next month and visit her parents. Another chap has gone to his home in Yorkshire. Others are planning similar. Will be interesting to see the long term effect of this on commuting. Perhaps a positive outcome if it educates firms and employees alike to cease commuting where possible. Might just help to get the crowds under control......👍
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Post by 35b on Mar 14, 2020 8:00:04 GMT
As one perspective, the bank I work for has about 5,000 people in Canary Wharf. A back up site outside London which sits permanently ready with 600 seats was activated as of a week and a half ago. It is only reachable by car or rail practically from central London. Businesses that have seats there have split their staff three ways. One third there, one third in CW and one third working at home. Of the 3,000 not in the above, 1500 are formally working at home. The balance are still coming to the office some days, working at home others. Many clients only want meetings via audio or video as well. Testing shows everyone in Europe at the bank can work from home without server capacity markedly degrading. More server capacity was added this week with a failsafe to prioritise who gets 'load shedded' if there is a server outage or similar. I manage a team of about 250 and the feedback from them is that it will be hard to go back to commuting five days a week when this ends. We are doing many team calls by video conference and at the click of a button our office phone rings on our mobile or home phone as we want. Same when we want to call someone. Click a button on my workpc and my mobile rings, as does the phone of whoever I am calling. That is some Cisco app called Jabber I think. One of my team is flying to Brazil on Sunday and will work remotely London hours for the next month and visit her parents. Another chap has gone to his home in Yorkshire. Others are planning similar. Will be interesting to see the long term effect of this on commuting. Perhaps a positive outcome if it educates firms and employees alike to cease commuting where possible. Might just help to get the crowds under control......👍 As a commuter who works from home much of the time, I’m less convinced that it is a bad thing.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 14, 2020 8:45:40 GMT
Rumour is the District line will run a reduced service from Monday - I presume other lines will be following suit.....
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 14, 2020 8:59:59 GMT
Rumour is the District line will run a reduced service from Monday - I presume other lines will be following suit..... Unlikely as a reduced timetable would require a revised duty roster which would have to be published with 28 days notice. I've got my duties for next week, normal "WTT70" duties, if they change I'll let you know.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 14, 2020 9:06:48 GMT
[Unlikely as a reduced timetable would require a revised duty roster which would have to be published with 28 days notice. “Planned cancellations” of peak trains would work
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Post by superteacher on Mar 14, 2020 9:57:14 GMT
[Unlikely as a reduced timetable would require a revised duty roster which would have to be published with 28 days notice. “Planned cancellations” of peak trains would work The Central line won’t need planned peak cancellations- trains are already cancelled every day!
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 14, 2020 11:27:01 GMT
Indeed, we have "unplanned cancellations" because of "operational restrictions". I've lost count of the number of times in the last few weeks I've either had to put a train away or start one up from the depots and sidings because of ONA (operator not available).
Yet another TLA from LUL (three letter acronym).
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Post by roman80 on Mar 14, 2020 12:37:01 GMT
There is also another angle. While the forum doesn't discuss politics, it is factual that the London Mayoral Election has been postponed by a year. Polls indicated a large lead for the incumbent, as per a recent press article (Evening Standard last week). An politician returned or newly elected with a large majority can front load some painful decisions on things like finances and taxes and spending at the start of a new term more comfortably than one having an extra year of campaigning ahead.
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Post by stapler on Mar 14, 2020 22:01:59 GMT
There is also another angle. While the forum doesn't discuss politics, it is factual that the London Mayoral Election has been postponed by a year. Polls indicated a large lead for the incumbent, as per a recent press article (Evening Standard last week). An politician returned or newly elected with a large majority can front load some painful decisions on things like finances and taxes and spending at the start of a new term more comfortably than one having an extra year of campaigning ahead. And another factor cogent to TFL is that he might extend the fare freeze for another year.....
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 15, 2020 1:53:08 GMT
There is also another angle. While the forum doesn't discuss politics, it is factual that the London Mayoral Election has been postponed by a year. Polls indicated a large lead for the incumbent, as per a recent press article (Evening Standard last week). An politician returned or newly elected with a large majority can front load some painful decisions on things like finances and taxes and spending at the start of a new term more comfortably than one having an extra year of campaigning ahead. And another factor cogent to TFL is that he might extend the fare freeze for another year..... That ain't gonna happen. Meanwhile one of my colleagues was changing ends at West Ruislip this evening, went upstairs to have a PNR/make a cup of tea and was told that the train crew acco was closed for a deep clean. There may be trouble ahead...
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 15, 2020 10:14:52 GMT
Unlikely as a reduced timetable would require a revised duty roster which would have to be published with 28 days notice. I've got my duties for next week, normal "WTT70" duties, if they change I'll let you know. I never said anything about published timetable or duty changes. As Dstock7080 suggested, a few trains can be pulled - midday depot stablers for example - or other random trains. An “emergency timetable” could be implemented, etc, etc. There’s plenty of ways the train service can be manipulated adhoc on any given day without going anywhere near 28 day agreements.
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Post by firestorm on Mar 15, 2020 12:56:09 GMT
At the maintenance depot I work at, everything is business as usual, there's one person who is self isolating as per health guidance. Overall there shouldn't be too big an impact with trains being being prepped and maintained, worst case they'll have to loosen the purse strings and call people in for overtime.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 15, 2020 22:39:48 GMT
Would it breach the 28 day rule if Saturday frequencies / timetables were introduced on weekdays - as per the Christmas period?
If this was to happen I wonder if passengers on the Metropolitan line would welcome the significant journey time increases caused by the loss of their fast trains?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 16, 2020 4:44:49 GMT
Would it breach the 28 day rule if Saturday frequencies / timetables were introduced on weekdays - as per the Christmas period? If this was to happen I wonder if passengers on the Metropolitan line would welcome the significant journey time increases caused by the loss of their fast trains? Christmas and other bank holiday timetables are published 28 days in advance, we've had the Easter 2020 duty sheets for a couple of weeks.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 16, 2020 7:57:18 GMT
Rumour is the District line will run a reduced service from Monday - I presume other lines will be following suit..... Full service District this morning no cancellations , also MET - just once H&C cancellation, no driver.
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Post by simran1966 on Mar 16, 2020 9:11:31 GMT
As long as staff and trains are available, I would imagine it desirable to maintain a frequent service. There may be fewer passengers but they will have more space to spread out and do the 'social distancing'.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 16, 2020 10:22:31 GMT
What are the financial implications of running fewer trains? Obviously you save on electricity and a bit of wear and tear on track and train, but you still have to pay the same number of drivers, signallers, controllers, etc. so I'd guess it probably doesn't make a significant difference?
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Post by goldenarrow on Mar 16, 2020 10:51:27 GMT
What are the financial implications of running fewer trains? Obviously you save on electricity and a bit of wear and tear on track and train, but you still have to pay the same number of drivers, signallers, controllers, etc. so I'd guess it probably doesn't make a significant difference? I can’t speak for LU in particular but from my own experience in Transport Operations all this would do is aid resilience planning whilst not adversely affecting the service in terms of crowding. The saving in overheads with regards to infrastructure may count towards something but like you say, the payroll is still fully active. The forecasts seem to have been bang on, 20% dip in Tube usage mostly stemming from the off peak and 10% dip on the buses. Revenue is predicted to fall short by £500-750 million over the course of this summer.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 16, 2020 10:51:32 GMT
There might be a bit of a saving on payroll by running fewer trains, as there would be less drivers' overtime needed. In the longer term, some maintenance costs might be deferred because trains are taking longer to reach the point at which servicing is due, but the savings would be in materials, and any work contracted out, not in LUL payroll.
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Post by North End on Mar 16, 2020 10:56:38 GMT
What are the financial implications of running fewer trains? Obviously you save on electricity and a bit of wear and tear on track and train, but you still have to pay the same number of drivers, signallers, controllers, etc. so I'd guess it probably doesn't make a significant difference? The main value of running a reduced service would be to reduce uncertainty arising from people unavailable, either directly through drivers not at work, or indirectly for example trains not available due to maintenance staff not at work. It’s not possibly simply to change to a Sunday service at the drop of a hat because the duties will not match up, so drivers would find themselves working possibly longer duties which means working over contracted hours, plus there’s the 28 days notice situation as mentioned elsewhere. The only simple way of getting round this might be an emergency arrangement offering overtime payments, but that would need to be agreed and implemented. Given certain lines like the Central are now used to a massive list of cancellations for no driver, particularly at weekends, I think LU will struggle on for the time being. The options are essentially run the full service with cancellations as required, run a Saturday service with 28 days notice, or run an emergency service on the day with all drivers spare. People here may wish to take their pick as to which of these options is most expedient!
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Post by Chris M on Mar 16, 2020 11:17:03 GMT
Given how rapidly the situation is evolving, we could be on the upswing in 28 days with a full service needed again - or we could need an even more reduced service. I'd suggest maintaining as much flexibility as possible.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 16, 2020 12:24:31 GMT
There might be a bit of a saving on payroll by running fewer trains, as there would be less drivers' overtime needed. In the longer term, some maintenance costs might be deferred because trains are taking longer to reach the point at which servicing is due, but the savings would be in materials, and any work contracted out, not in LUL payroll. There would be no savings for overtime on the Tube as drivers don't work rest days or any other form of voluntary overtime, the only time we get paid extra is if we're late finishing due to signal failure, etc.
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