|
|
Post by PiccNT on Dec 23, 2020 13:33:30 GMT
Coverage is starting to be an issue on the Central Line, with several Train Operators tested positive and others shielding yet again. I wonder how long LUL can run a full timetable? And in-cab training has been paused again with a review in the New Year. There are a fair number of trains cancelled every day but with the latest drop of passengers, it's not too much of an issue. We have engineering works on the Picc from tomorrow and offering a 3-4 minute service through town to Hammersmith and a 10 minute Northfields to Heathrow 5 service. Not sure how many will need to go to Heathrow and if BTP has upped their presence on the stations, I don't suppose we'll have too many anywhere! Back to training. At this rate, it will be about one year of no training. Our line is a big feeder to the other lines. We won't be able to release anyone as we'll be too short, we're using the majority of night tube drivers on the day service and if we do release anyone, they can't be trained anyway so it's a big problem all round. The only feasible way forward to stop the daily cancellation of trains is to reduce the service from what it is. But that takes months to plan and get agreed with the relevant parties. Cock up on the train front. Nightmare City Arizona (With credit to The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin). |
|
|
|
Post by MoreToJack on Dec 23, 2020 13:41:10 GMT
You can have as many or as few train side staff as you like, but with no control staff you’re not running anything.
This is where the big problem is now occurring. The Bakerloo has no night Controller cover this week with early shut downs and late start ups occurring yesterday, today and tomorrow. Other control centres, signalling centres and signal cabins are at similar risk and it is largely down to staff good will that this has not yet occurred.
I find it interesting how the same tub thumping is never head from control staff as it is from train side.
|
|
|
|
Post by PiccNT on Dec 23, 2020 13:51:51 GMT
You can have as many or as few train side staff as you like, but with no control staff you’re not running anything. This is where the big problem is now occurring. The Bakerloo has no night Controller cover this week with early shut downs and late start ups occurring yesterday, today and tomorrow. Other control centres, signalling centres and signal cabins are at similar risk and it is largely down to staff good will that this has not yet occurred. I find it interesting how the same tub thumping is never head from control staff as it is from train side. Yes, that slipped my mind even though I was working last night and announcing no Bakerloo after 21:30. I'm no expert on control room personnel but I believe the Picc controller/signaller team are the same grade and swap between roles? That may make it easier to resource? |
|
North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
|
Post by North End on Dec 23, 2020 14:07:48 GMT
You can have as many or as few train side staff as you like, but with no control staff you’re not running anything. This is where the big problem is now occurring. The Bakerloo has no night Controller cover this week with early shut downs and late start ups occurring yesterday, today and tomorrow. Other control centres, signalling centres and signal cabins are at similar risk and it is largely down to staff good will that this has not yet occurred. I find it interesting how the same tub thumping is never head from control staff as it is from train side. To be fair, service control is a completely different beast, just like stations and trains have their differences. Control staff generally get what they want, which by the same token does tend to mean there’s a stronger culture of co-operative goodwill. Covid has certainly penetrated at least one control room, there’s certainly bound to be implications if that trend continues. |
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Dec 23, 2020 17:01:19 GMT
It sounds like there might be a return to emergency ad-hoc timetables, as in the spring. When passing through Stratford in the small period of time in the summer and autumn between lockdowns I noticed that social distancing has also reduced the numbers of people travelling in station lifts.  Stratford-Lift-SocialDistance-Sign-P1650459 |
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Dec 24, 2020 20:56:11 GMT
A YouTube video made during the first Lockdown to say "Thank You" to the key workers. Some scenes come from overseas, but many are also from here in the UK. Look out for the tube train and (ahem) London double deck bus!
|
|
hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
Posts: 516
|
Post by hobbayne on Dec 27, 2020 20:46:15 GMT
Well, The Bakerloo is now completely suspended. Staff shortages are being blamed.
The control room staff situation getting worse?
|
|
DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
|
Post by DWS on Dec 27, 2020 20:56:30 GMT
Well, The Bakerloo is now completely suspended. Staff shortages are being blamed. The control room staff situation getting worse? Earlier the line was suspended between Queens Park and Harrow and Wealdstone due to train cancellations. |
|
|
|
Post by MoreToJack on Dec 27, 2020 22:25:37 GMT
This was also the case yesterday.
Many control rooms operate with two twelve hour shifts at the weekend, and if it’s the same staff unavailable there will resultingly be a longer suspension period.
Winding a service down takes some time to achieve too, of course, which is why the line may have delays or be part suspended as trains and crews are returned to stabling points/depots.
|
|
|
|
Post by alpinejohn on Dec 28, 2020 8:48:56 GMT
On the mainline railways it seems the Treasury has now won its behind the scenes battle to cut back service levels to reflect the reduced passenger numbers. OK they more or less directly run most lines now, and can dictate what happens, so its entirely their call and the Government should expect to take any flack from customers rather than the staff.
However I suspect that since the recent Government bail-out TFL may have been under similar pressure to take an axe to their service levels. Whether this will eventually translate into staff cuts at this stage is doubtful, but if these lockdowns etc last well into 2021 - as it seems some "experts" now forecast, then I cannot see that being entirely avoided. So apart from possibly retraining and shifting staff around between control rooms, any current staff shortages on the Bakerloo seem unlikely to be addressed quickly.
In the meantime personally I think the chaos and challenges posed this year demonstrates that everyone involved in any aspect of delivering public transport services really deserves a big Thank You.
|
|
|
|
Post by revupminster on Dec 28, 2020 10:08:10 GMT
Unless passengers resume quickly can any line justify a 90 second headway? After Brexit will we still be France's 7th city? Will levelling up remove jobs to the north. Although more people moving out of London might increase commuting on the mainline although I suspect the jobs will follow them to the shire capitals.
|
|
londoner
thinking on '73 stock
Posts: 480 
|
Post by londoner on Dec 29, 2020 16:08:23 GMT
Are there any updates as to when we will be able to use cash to top up our Oyster cards at stations again?
|
|
|
|
Post by quex on Dec 29, 2020 16:22:01 GMT
Are there any updates as to when we will be able to use cash to top up our Oyster cards at stations again? Baseless speculation on my part, but personally my gut feeling is "never". |
|
|
|
Post by cudsn15 on Dec 29, 2020 22:38:53 GMT
It's a real conundrum. Yes in the short term the service levels are ridiculously over surplus to requirements - but as we saw in the summer - the demand came back very quickly. Whilst it may take years to approach anything like the levels pre- covid, pre Brexit and pre- Johnson (!) it will still have peaks requiring full complement of trains and drivers. This is where the argument for driverless trains comes to the fore - and now the tory govt holds most of the aces (including it seems a blank cheque book from the money tree bank!) it could legitimately alter the parameters and legal obstacles that have prevented serious discussion of this alarming plan. In the short term though there does need to be a re-organisation of service levels, staff deployment and dare I say many unionised custom and practice regulations - this time I suspect strike action will have little effect on anyone so the "authorities" (i.e actual decision makers) will be quite happy for such action to go ahead and play into their hands. This time I don't think this will be a battle the unions will win.
|
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Dec 30, 2020 8:35:39 GMT
It's a real conundrum. Yes in the short term the service levels are ridiculously over surplus to requirements - but as we saw in the summer - the demand came back very quickly. Whilst it may take years to approach anything like the levels pre- covid, pre Brexit and pre- Johnson (!) it will still have peaks requiring full complement of trains and drivers. This is where the argument for driverless trains comes to the fore - and now the tory govt holds most of the aces (including it seems a blank cheque book from the money tree bank!) it could legitimately alter the parameters and legal obstacles that have prevented serious discussion of this alarming plan. In the short term though there does need to be a re-organisation of service levels, staff deployment and dare I say many unionised custom and practice regulations - this time I suspect strike action will have little effect on anyone so the "authorities" (i.e actual decision makers) will be quite happy for such action to go ahead and play into their hands. This time I don't think this will be a battle the unions will win. Sorry. You've lost me now! |
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
|
Post by class411 on Dec 30, 2020 10:50:55 GMT
It's a real conundrum. Yes in the short term the service levels are ridiculously over surplus to requirements - but as we saw in the summer - the demand came back very quickly. Whilst it may take years to approach anything like the levels pre- covid, pre Brexit and pre- Johnson (!) it will still have peaks requiring full complement of trains and drivers. This is where the argument for driverless trains comes to the fore - and now the tory govt holds most of the aces (including it seems a blank cheque book from the money tree bank!) it could legitimately alter the parameters and legal obstacles that have prevented serious discussion of this alarming plan. In the short term though there does need to be a re-organisation of service levels, staff deployment and dare I say many unionised custom and practice regulations - this time I suspect strike action will have little effect on anyone so the "authorities" (i.e actual decision makers) will be quite happy for such action to go ahead and play into their hands. This time I don't think this will be a battle the unions will win. We've been over this time and time again, in several different threads. I believe the general concensus is that nothing can possibly happen in the 'short' term (Where short is a decade or so.) As such it will be very difficult for any government to justify spending the vast amounts of money necessary to drive rapid deployment of a true driverless system, since they would have to balance the budget, but a far future government would harvest the (somewhat limited) rewards. Far more likely that the system will evolve the capabilities over a couple of decades (we're already on the way with the latest trains and signalling), and full automation will creep in from the easier parts of the system (Hammersmith to Royal Oak on the Hammersmith and City & Circle line?) |
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Dec 30, 2020 12:52:12 GMT
Are there any updates as to when we will be able to use cash to top up our Oyster cards at stations again? In theory, never, but to properly explain my thoughts on this topic would require me to become political, and that would not be welcomed here - so I won't do it. I am one of the people who suffers because of this, so what I can say is 'thank goodness for local shops'. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Dec 30, 2020 14:13:10 GMT
Are there any updates as to when we will be able to use cash to top up our Oyster cards at stations again? In theory, never, but to properly explain my thoughts on this topic would require me to become political, and that would not be welcomed here - so I won't do it. I am one of the people who suffers because of this, so what I can say is 'thank goodness for local shops'. Not having to handle cash at stations saves a considerable amount of time and money. |
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,762
|
Post by Chris M on Dec 30, 2020 15:03:27 GMT
I believe that operators of ticket stops get a commission on top ups and other ticket sales. If so, then directing more people to use them should be seen as a Good Thing for those that support local businesses.
|
|
|
|
Post by sawb on Dec 31, 2020 8:11:03 GMT
Are there any updates as to when we will be able to use cash to top up our Oyster cards at stations again? Is there not some sort of regulation change required to make this permanent? |
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Dec 31, 2020 10:41:49 GMT
Are there any updates as to when we will be able to use cash to top up our Oyster cards at stations again? Is there not some sort of regulation change required to make this permanent? Why would it be needed? Technology has advanced with Oyster and cashless payment available for fares. The network of shops that have Oyster readers allows cash to be used if necessary. |
|
|
|
Post by peterc on Dec 31, 2020 15:46:36 GMT
Are there any updates as to when we will be able to use cash to top up our Oyster cards at stations again? Is there not some sort of regulation change required to make this permanent? I may be wrong but I thought that only concerned National Rail. What is the situation with Overground ticket machines? |
|
|
|
Post by A60stock on Dec 31, 2020 17:41:21 GMT
Been a little while since this has been discussed, but does anyone know when the night tube will return (I know its penciled in as March 2021)? I think March is probably too early but eventually, I do predict that night life traffic will pick up very soon after hospitality (clubs/bars etc) are given the green light.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,762
|
Post by Chris M on Dec 31, 2020 17:45:09 GMT
I don't think we'll see a return of the night tube in 2021, and quite possibly never (at least in the form it was immediately prior to suspension). AIUI it was losing a lot of money and was a headache operationally.
|
|
|
|
Post by A60stock on Dec 31, 2020 17:48:37 GMT
Its a shame if it doesn't but then again, I dont know how it worked from an operational point of view. I did think some lines were well over served in terms of tph so perhaps reducing service levels in some part may help. Hopefully it can return in a more efficient manner one day.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 31, 2020 17:49:45 GMT
Been a little while since this has been discussed, but does anyone know when the night tube will return (I know its penciled in as March 2021)? I think March is probably too early but eventually, I do predict that night life traffic will pick up very soon after hospitality (clubs/bars etc) are given the green light. As already indicated up-thread, the Piccadilly timetable 59 from 16 May 2021 doesn't have the requirement for Night Tube services. |
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Dec 31, 2020 21:24:12 GMT
I suspect that it will be for whoever wins the Mayoral vote in the spring will have to take the decisions
|
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Dec 31, 2020 21:28:02 GMT
In theory, never, but to properly explain my thoughts on this topic would require me to become political, and that would not be welcomed here - so I won't do it. I am one of the people who suffers because of this, so what I can say is 'thank goodness for local shops'. Not having to handle cash at stations saves a considerable amount of time and money. Its not just that - I feel sure that its been revealed here (in a different thread) that TfL's operating costs are lower (and hence actual earnings higher) if passengers use bank cards or other NFC contactless devices instead of Oystercards. |
|
North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
|
Post by North End on Dec 31, 2020 23:28:55 GMT
I don't think we'll see a return of the night tube in 2021, and quite possibly never (at least in the form it was immediately prior to suspension). AIUI it was losing a lot of money and was a headache operationally. I think the killer blow for night tube is the training backlog. With little training having taken place through 2020, and as I write this it’s recently been suspended again with no resumption in sight, this leaves a massive backlog, worse in some places than others. Meanwhile finances are tight, so can it really be justified to devote training resources to people who at the end of their training will only carry out 40% of the productive work compared to a full-time driver? This does of course assume there won’t be mass service cuts across the day on all the lines, though again night tube is likely to be low down on the priority list. I think there’s a good chance it won’t return, and to be honest if that’s the case it will be one of the few good things to come out of the whole Covid saga. |
|
|
|
Post by revupminster on Jan 1, 2021 7:13:26 GMT
Have to explain 40%. If they are working 5 hours they do not need a meal relief and if only 2 days a week then as part timers I would have thought the most productive staff of all.
Station staff working 12 hour Sundays needed two meal reliefs so stations were left unmanned. That's what happened in my day. Maybe all changed?
|
|
