class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,744
|
Post by class411 on Aug 29, 2020 16:24:19 GMT
I've travelled to Euston and back this afternoon and it was only slightly quieter than a normal Saturday this time of year would be. The DLR was full and standing with every available seat taken (the areas for staff take out 16 seats and two vestibules per train). When the tourists come back it will be back to very near normal on weekends. It seems clear that those who are talking about a collapse in ridership in public transport are the ones who are not themselves using public transport. Those of us who are looking at what the evidence actually is are not seeing any collapse. I find the situation variable. Some trains seem near normal, others near empty. The last four times I've used Victoria (around 11am-12), the LU concourse has been all but deserted.
|
|
North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
|
Post by North End on Aug 29, 2020 16:34:19 GMT
I've travelled to Euston and back this afternoon and it was only slightly quieter than a normal Saturday this time of year would be. The DLR was full and standing with every available seat taken (the areas for staff take out 16 seats and two vestibules per train). When the tourists come back it will be back to very near normal on weekends. It seems clear that those who are talking about a collapse in ridership in public transport are the ones who are not themselves using public transport. Those of us who are looking at what the evidence actually is are not seeing any collapse. It depends when and where. There’s clearly a lot of leisure use returned, however if you were to go to somewhere like Kennington or Stockwell at 1800 on a weekday, where normally every southbound train would be leaving totally crush loaded, you’ll now find there are more seats than passengers. I gather same applies going north in the morning peak, where normally trains at places like Clapham North would be unboardable. The significance of all this is a matter for debate, those crush loaded peak trains are a headache in that creating extra capacity just for a short period each day is extremely costly, but equally peak hours must bring in revenue simply because of the numbers being carried, in many cases on more expensive fares too. There certainly needs to be some memory of the 1980s, and in particular the lesson of having cut capacity out of the system (eg those single-leaf doors on 83 stock) and then found demand picked up again. Same goes for the amount of works required on the DLR over the years - too small even before it opened.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,763
|
Post by Chris M on Aug 31, 2020 13:32:31 GMT
I think that what isn't happening yet is a return of commuting traffic, but leisure traffic is returning. Every restaurants in Chinatown has a queue to get in - I've never seen this before, even at Chinese New Year. The DLR, Central and Piccadilly line were all busy on my way here too, although there were seats available.
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Aug 31, 2020 16:12:53 GMT
I think that what isn't happening yet is a return of commuting traffic, but leisure traffic is returning. Every restaurants in Chinatown has a queue to get in - I've never seen this before, even at Chinese New Year. The DLR, Central and Piccadilly line were all busy on my way here too, although there were seats available. Is that just today though? Remember today is the last day of the "eat out to help out" scheme. Personally, I've been enjoying Thursday nights out at several of my local independent restaurants - all within walking distance. No crowds, the only problem has been that it's uphill to get home!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2020 16:46:33 GMT
It will help you burn off those calories
|
|
|
Post by MoreToJack on Aug 31, 2020 18:18:13 GMT
Today has been by far the busiest I've seen London since the end of lockdown, transport and not. The good weather and bank holiday is no doubt helping matters! The lack of "big events" is no doubt contributing to it being quieter than usual, but social distancing has been near enough impossible on all the (Tube) trains I've been on. The Overground (WAnglia) was full and standing and wouldn't have been out of place during the shoulder-peak period.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,763
|
Post by Chris M on Aug 31, 2020 23:13:06 GMT
I think that what isn't happening yet is a return of commuting traffic, but leisure traffic is returning. Every restaurants in Chinatown has a queue to get in - I've never seen this before, even at Chinese New Year. The DLR, Central and Piccadilly line were all busy on my way here too, although there were seats available. Is that just today though? Remember today is the last day of the "eat out to help out" scheme. Personally, I've been enjoying Thursday nights out at several of my local independent restaurants - all within walking distance. No crowds, the only problem has been that it's uphill to get home! I'm sure it being the last* day of eat out to help out has made a difference - we only went to Chinatown as all the restaurants around us we tried were fully booked for this evening. *The last day of the central government scheme, there are a variety of local schemes and deals being offered by individual establishments/chains/areas in September.
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 2, 2020 6:51:11 GMT
I went up to the City yesterday, Bank station is entry via Lombard Street/King William Street only (Exit 5 I believe) and exit via Mansion House Street/Princes Street (exit 1?), all the rest including the new "ticket hall" on Walbrook are closed. The gateline and lifts to the Northern Line are also closed so the only way into the station is via the escalator down to the Central Line (or via Monument obviously). There were six members of staff stood around the gateline with not much to do so it would appear that the closures of parts of the station hasn't reduced the minimum staffing level.
Up on ground level the City is like a Sunday, hardly anyone around. By contrast up on the Euston Road the traffic was nose to tail.
|
|
|
Post by goldenarrow on Sept 2, 2020 9:31:32 GMT
Just a nudge on what was said above, some stats from the Eat Out to Help Out scheme shows unsurprisingly that price interventions work.
|
|
|
Post by theblackferret on Sept 2, 2020 10:01:20 GMT
I went up to the City yesterday, Bank station is entry via Lombard Street/King William Street only (Exit 5 I believe) and exit via Mansion House Street/Princes Street (exit 1?), all the rest including the new "ticket hall" on Walbrook are closed. The gateline and lifts to the Northern Line are also closed so the only way into the station is via the escalator down to the Central Line (or via Monument obviously). There were six members of staff stood around the gateline with not much to do so it would appear that the closures of parts of the station hasn't reduced the minimum staffing level. Up on ground level the City is like a Sunday, hardly anyone around. By contrast up on the Euston Road the traffic was nose to tail. That's telling. If any part of London can wear home working on a long-term basis, you'd start with the City, because of the existing global level of net-working in the first place. On a personal note, my brother-in-law, who was commuting to Canary Wharf from Worthing four days a week to financial technologists etc. (though it could be MI6 for all I understand it ), still hasn't gone back and I suspect might limit himself, as a lot of others might, to a monthly, or at most, fortnightly, conference meeting. And as that can all be done on more than one app......................!
|
|
|
Post by sawb on Sept 2, 2020 17:16:55 GMT
Hyde Park Winter Wonderland cancelled today (not altogether surprising), so that should help the Central and Piccadilly lines in particular. I note that Winterville and South Bank have yet to make a decision. Winterville is certainly possible to go ahead, as they've always been ticket only, but it doesn't have a location as far as I know due to the issues with Clapham Common which were prevalent before covid-19. South Bank I believe has never been ticketed, so may have more problems.
I'm possibly starting a phased return to London from October, but that's yet to be confirmed. Hopefully it's still reasonably easy by then.
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 3, 2020 14:40:09 GMT
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Sept 3, 2020 19:53:49 GMT
I went up to the City yesterday, Bank station is entry via Lombard Street/King William Street only (Exit 5 I believe) and exit via Mansion House Street/Princes Street (exit 1?), all the rest including the new "ticket hall" on Walbrook are closed. The gateline and lifts to the Northern Line are also closed so the only way into the station is via the escalator down to the Central Line (or via Monument obviously). There were six members of staff stood around the gateline with not much to do so it would appear that the closures of parts of the station hasn't reduced the minimum staffing level. Up on ground level the City is like a Sunday, hardly anyone around. By contrast up on the Euston Road the traffic was nose to tail. I was there last week, I walked from Liverpool Street station as I also wanted to visit Leadenhall Market. Much of Liverpool Street Underground station is closed, only one set of escalators to / from the Central line are in use, these being the ones which offer direct interchange with the subsurface trains. Bank junction area was only really alive because of passing buses and workmen making a hefty racket installing a bike lane that has caused Threadneedle Street to be closed in one direction - shoving many bus routes along other roads in the process. The Euston Road is always busy, after all its part of a designated ring route around the centre of central London. The new bike lanes have made a difficult situation even worse. Despite being advertised as temporary I saw bus stops being moved in ways that suggests that the plan is really about trying to deter traffic from using this route. Great, I say - but beware what you ask for as one of the side effects of this virus pandemic is that London is risking becoming a doughnut (or Polo Mint) city where people live and work around the outside and the middle dies. Maybe tourists will return and keep some areas alive but apart from that... re: the Dettol hand gel dispensers, I saw them in the ticket hall at Embankment yesterday (Weds 2nd Sept 20).
|
|
North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
|
Post by North End on Sept 3, 2020 23:16:40 GMT
I went up to the City yesterday, Bank station is entry via Lombard Street/King William Street only (Exit 5 I believe) and exit via Mansion House Street/Princes Street (exit 1?), all the rest including the new "ticket hall" on Walbrook are closed. The gateline and lifts to the Northern Line are also closed so the only way into the station is via the escalator down to the Central Line (or via Monument obviously). There were six members of staff stood around the gateline with not much to do so it would appear that the closures of parts of the station hasn't reduced the minimum staffing level. Up on ground level the City is like a Sunday, hardly anyone around. By contrast up on the Euston Road the traffic was nose to tail. I was there last week, I walked from Liverpool Street station as I also wanted to visit Leadenhall Market. Much of Liverpool Street Underground station is closed, only one set of escalators to / from the Central line are in use, these being the ones which offer direct interchange with the subsurface trains. Bank junction area was only really alive because of passing buses and workmen making a hefty racket installing a bike lane that has caused Threadneedle Street to be closed in one direction - shoving many bus routes along other roads in the process. The Euston Road is always busy, after all its part of a designated ring route around the centre of central London. The new bike lanes have made a difficult situation even worse. Despite being advertised as temporary I saw bus stops being moved in ways that suggests that the plan is really about trying to deter traffic from using this route. Great, I say - but beware what you ask for as one of the side effects of this virus pandemic is that London is risking becoming a doughnut (or Polo Mint) city where people live and work around the outside and the middle dies. Maybe tourists will return and keep some areas alive but apart from that... re: the Dettol hand gel dispensers, I saw them in the ticket hall at Embankment yesterday (Weds 2nd Sept 20). There’s a million and one reasons why we need to get back to normal, and ultimately that has to include office workers. It’s rather depressing that we’re continuing to hear some pretty dubious reasons why office workers allegedly cannot return to work, one I heard on the news this morning which took the biscuit was “I can’t go to work as that means using public transport which adults shouldn’t use so school children can travel safely”.
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 4, 2020 3:56:49 GMT
Mayoral candidate Shaun Bailey says the Waterloo & City Line should reopen but to me that seems like putting the cart before the horse. I don't believe that people are going to return to their offices just because they can get from Waterloo to Bank on one train instead of needing to change at London Bridge or Tottenham Court Road.
|
|
|
Post by revupminster on Sept 4, 2020 5:37:32 GMT
Mayoral candidate Shaun Bailey says the Waterloo & City Line should reopen but to me that seems like putting the cart before the horse. I don't believe that people are going to return to their offices just because they can get from Waterloo to Bank on one train instead of needing to change at London Bridge or Tottenham Court Road. less narrow extra interchange tunnels and escalators to use.
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 4, 2020 5:42:49 GMT
In 2006 The Waterloo & City Line was closed for nearly six months, it didn't stop people commuting into the City.
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Sept 4, 2020 7:03:41 GMT
<<It’s rather depressing that we’re continuing to here some pretty dubious reasons why office workers allegedly cannot return to work, one I heard on the news this morning which took the biscuit was “I can’t go to work as that means using public transport which adults shouldn’t use so school children can travel safely”>> It's obviously safer (and possibly more efficient) for office workers to work from home. If that means sacrificing the pret on every corner syndrome, so be it. And if that undermines the bloated Central London office market, well, there is now a permitted development right to turn unwanted office blocks into dwellings....perhaps we may yet see the City with 75000 actual residents. Re schoolchildren, has anyone seen the annoying "Reserved for schoolchildren" notices on bus dashboards? And if you use traveline or bustime you will see some journeys are so designated in the timetables. I'm now expecting then on underground cars too on lines where there are schools drawing from a wide area....
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Sept 4, 2020 7:57:39 GMT
In the USA, there are specially-designed buses for schoolchildren, on which no-one else travels...
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 4, 2020 7:58:38 GMT
<<It’s rather depressing that we’re continuing to here some pretty dubious reasons why office workers allegedly cannot return to work, one I heard on the news this morning which took the biscuit was “I can’t go to work as that means using public transport which adults shouldn’t use so school children can travel safely”>> It's obviously safer (and possibly more efficient) for office workers to work from home. If that means sacrificing the pret on every corner syndrome, so be it. And if that undermines the bloated Central London office market, well, there is now a permitted development right to turn unwanted office blocks into dwellings....perhaps we may yet see the City with 75000 actual residents. Re schoolchildren, has anyone seen the annoying "Reserved for schoolchildren" notices on bus dashboards? And if you use traveline or bustime you will see some journeys are so designated in the timetables. I'm now expecting then on underground cars too on lines where there are schools drawing from a wide area.... If the owners turned City and West End offices into flats you can guarantee the rents would be extortionate. Also I doubt if there would be enough doctors, schools or even supermarkets in the area to support an extra 75k residents (a problem that have arisen with offices converted to residential outside central London). I don't think we'll see cars reserved for school kids on the Tube, as with everything else there's no way of enforcing it and it certainly wouldn't be possible on S Stock.
|
|
|
Post by tjw on Sept 4, 2020 8:02:54 GMT
Over the last 25 years I have occasionally worked in I.T., and have wondered with colleagues why at great expense of time and money we transport people from places such as Arundel and Wellingborough to London, so they can sit at a computer and send e-mails to their co-workers in the next room. The lockdown and Government advice not to use public transport, has finally shewn that it is possible for the (home) office to be in a house in Arundel or Wellingborough. The system has been tested over the last few months and for many businesses the new system is working fine.
I have friends that commute into London, and what they tell me is very bad news for public transportation. Some offices do not plan to open until after Christmas, in many cases setting up the unsocial distancing and modifying the offices is too much hassle especially as the advice is changing with the wind direction.
While offices will be reopening over the next few months in some cases home working and flexible working will be the norm, with the option of attending meetings in person. A number of employers are looking at the costs of running large office blocks in London, and have found out that their employees are happy working from home and many are glad not to spend several hours on overcrowded trains that are regularly late or cancelled. With all the talk of the so called new normal, why would anyone want to go back to the rush hour unless it was really necessary?
The only reason we have public transportation is to transport as many people as possible as quickly and efficiently as possible from A to B. London has seen some improvement in its transportation system but it is still too slow, and far too expensive. It will need to do much better if it wants to attract office workers out of the home office, and back into the City or West End.
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,744
|
Post by class411 on Sept 4, 2020 8:27:26 GMT
Over the last 25 years I have occasionally worked in I.T., and have wondered with colleagues why at great expense of time and money we transport people from places such as Arundel and Wellingborough to London, so they can sit at a computer and send e-mails to their co-workers in the next room. The lockdown and Government advice not to use public transport, has finally shewn that it is possible for the (home) office to be in a house in Arundel or Wellingborough. The system has been tested over the last few months and for many businesses the new system is working fine. I have friends that commute into London, and what they tell me is very bad news for public transportation. Some offices do not plan to open until after Christmas, in many cases setting up the unsocial distancing and modifying the offices is too much hassle especially as the advice is changing with the wind direction. While offices will be reopening over the next few months in some cases home working and flexible working will be the norm, with the option of attending meetings in person. A number of employers are looking at the costs of running large office blocks in London, and have found out that their employees are happy working from home and many are glad not to spend several hours on overcrowded trains that are regularly late or cancelled. With all the talk of the so called new normal, why would anyone want to go back to the rush hour unless it was really necessary? The only reason we have public transportation is to transport as many people as possible as quickly and efficiently as possible from A to B. London has seen some improvement in its transportation system but it is still too slow, and far too expensive. It will need to do much better if it wants to attract office workers out of the home office, and back into the City or West End. There seem to be two opposing schools of thought about whether home working will become a new norm. Given that it's something that has been touted since well before C19, and has never really happened, I tend to think that it will probably not, to any great extent. The problem is that most organisations are very top heavy in their management, and that management need to have vast numbers of pointless meetings (or, perhaps more accurately, meetings where there is no point in the majority of attendees attending). I suspect that they will always see physical meetings as having a better profile for making it look as if they are doing something useful. If home working did become the norm, it might be bad for public transport in the short term, because of the financial implications, but once it was well established, it would be a great benefit because you could have a transport system that did not need to cater for super-saturated peaks, morning and evening.
|
|
|
Post by johnlinford on Sept 4, 2020 8:54:24 GMT
The biggest problem to working from home, espcialy in large organisations, is that it makes it much harder for new hires to get themselves known by anyone outside their initial team, so it makes it much harder to move your career on. A couple of graduate recruiters I know with new cohorts starting soon are very worried about this - usually they'd spend three months in different divisions of the business getting to know processes and people and things like that which become very different when it's not just moving to another floor on the office. Not to mention random meetings at the watercooler/post work pint etc where you make connections and network.
Add to that for some they may have a nice house in the shires with a study and all they need to work at home but not all do - again especially the younger workers. And the potential issues around social mobility - if you move from a job you can't do from home to one in management and suddenly you're expected to no longer need a space in the office that can be problematic or even alienating.
I think it will take a little while and have some lag - partly due to a bit of a race to be seen to make claims like google etc "working from home until Easter" - but offices will return with a bit more flexibility, so you won't be taking a day off when there's a childcare problem or you need someone round to fix the boiler. However it will probably take until 2022 with all the impact that has on fare revenues in the meantime. I also don't expect international tourism to fully bounce back until then, if not longer.
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Sept 4, 2020 12:10:32 GMT
Whenever there is enforced change, be it war, strikes or epidemics, some do not 'go back' once they have got used to the emergency measures. Not everyone who left London during the Blitz came back. Newspaper traffic didn't return to the railways when road transport had been proved feasible. Not having thousands of people pouring in and out of Central London during short morning and afternoon periods must surely be of benefit all round. Something to aim for, rather than decry.
|
|
|
Post by goldenarrow on Sept 4, 2020 12:26:21 GMT
There are a few news outlets today running with the story of government developing a so called "First Ride Free" scheme to encourage greater use of the public transport network and hit home the fact that it is safe. This emulates to a lesser degree the approach taken by some governments on the continent who have issued free carnets to their citizens to help nudge them back onto sustainable transport.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 4, 2020 13:17:05 GMT
After Robert Pattinson tests positive for coronavirus while filming The Batman, conspiracy theorists say it’s just further proof that masks don’t work.
|
|
North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
|
Post by North End on Sept 4, 2020 13:17:27 GMT
There are a few news outlets today running with the story of developing a so called "First Ride Free" scheme to encourage greater use of the public transport network and hit home the fact that it is safe. This emulates to a lesser degree the approach taken by some governments on the continent who have issued free carnets to their citizens to help nudge them back onto sustainable transport. Thoughts? So once again it’s freebies for one particular subset of people. If it’s safe then there shouldn’t need to be free rides and the like. In any case the problem isn’t really leisure use, quite a bit of which has returned, but commuter use. Free rides aren’t going to encourage this to return when it’s primarily being driven by factors like home working. It doesn’t help that we just don’t seem to have a government which has any kind of medium-term strategy for where we go from here. The eat out scheme was about as tacky as it gets. A “let’s all get safely back to the office” scheme would be more beneficial IMO. There’s only so much loading up of trains with leisure passengers which is viable, especially now the school holidays are over and more and more people are (supposedly) returned to work. Normality is what we need.
|
|
North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
|
Post by North End on Sept 4, 2020 13:20:56 GMT
After Robert Pattinson tests positive for coronavirus while filming The Batman, conspiracy theorists say it’s just further proof that masks don’t work. One doesn’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to say that masks don’t work. Various of our medical officers were on the record through the first half of the year saying the self-same thing, in fact going further any suggesting they may cause more harm than good. Having seen the amount of incorrect use, and seen first-hand how correct mask use is pretty much incompatible with an operational-type job like many LU roles, I can quite see why this was the view.
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 4, 2020 13:23:42 GMT
And some fell on stone ground...
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Sept 4, 2020 14:51:07 GMT
And some fell on stone ground... When's your first stand up gig
|
|