|
|
Post by Chris L on Jul 4, 2020 15:55:11 GMT
The message has undergone a change. It now says only use trains if no other options are available.
|
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Jul 4, 2020 16:35:21 GMT
The message has undergone a change. It now says only use trains if no other options are available. I think the message changed yesterday afternoon, in part because there was much dismay that the previous message appeared to be unjustly demonising public transport as a place of danger where catching the virus was highly likely, even though the number of people catching the virus (within society in general) has reduced very considerably plus transport operators are doing all they can to minimise the risks to passengers (and staff). Another aspect is that its costing a fortune to run a railway service with near empty buses and trains; here in London the emergency funds from the government financial aid package will be fully spent by the autumn and in all cases the need is to get more income flowing in. Meanwhile, an ever increasing number of people are going by car, so that traffic congestion and air pollution are increasing, with the situation not helped by new bike lanes and speed limit reductions (although if the roads are congested then the limit becomes a moot point). |
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Jul 4, 2020 17:13:13 GMT
The message has undergone a change. It now says only use trains if no other options are available. I think the message changed yesterday afternoon, in part because there was much dismay that the previous message appeared to be unjustly demonising public transport as a place of danger where catching the virus was highly likely, even though the number of people catching the virus (within society in general) has reduced very considerably plus transport operators are doing all they can to minimise the risks to passengers (and staff). Another aspect is that its costing a fortune to run a railway service with near empty buses and trains; here in London the emergency funds from the government financial aid package will be fully spent by the autumn and in all cases the need is to get more income flowing in. Meanwhile, an ever increasing number of people are going by car, so that traffic congestion and air pollution are increasing, with the situation not helped by new bike lanes and speed limit reductions (although if the roads are congested then the limit becomes a moot point). The revised message was on posters I saw at stations on 23rd June. |
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Jul 5, 2020 11:01:45 GMT
The revised message was on posters I saw at stations on 23rd June. I think that was for the eyes of people who were travelling. I still recall official instruction after that date telling us to walk, cycle or drive as public transport only for essential journeys. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Jul 5, 2020 12:52:47 GMT
The revised message was on posters I saw at stations on 23rd June. I think that was for the eyes of people who were travelling. I still recall official instruction after that date telling us to walk, cycle or drive as public transport only for essential journeys. There has been a period of confused messages. The posters were there at the station entrances for all to see. The message has softened and seems to reflect the need to get things closer to normal as more people are travelling. |
|
|
|
Post by phil on Jul 5, 2020 16:35:30 GMT
As an aside, I see what we are currently going through as significant (in its own way) for London's railways as was WW2 and I'm hoping that no services end up suffering the same fate as the Northern Heights routes which were meant to become part of the Northern line but during WW2 were run down / temporarily suspended as a war-time coal saving economy and ended up being permanently closed. (I also have the Palace Gates branch in mind)
Unlikely because the only thing actually being built at present is Crossrail - and thats almost finished.
What will have happened is prospects of the Bakerloo line extension to Lewisham and a second Crossrail (SW - NE) will have taken a hit, but as neither has had any work done on the ground and they are both to relieve existing busy rail corridors its rather different to the post war situation where the Northern Heights works had been started on the ground and the Palace Gates line was an insignificant branch line. The other thing that could be affected is the proposed Brent Cross - Old Oak - Hounslow service although with HS2 and the Brent Cross redevelopment going ahead it has a better chance than the other two schemes of being taken forward.
|
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Jul 11, 2020 10:08:04 GMT
I am sure that I heard the Prime Minister say yesterday that he would like people to start returning to their offices and less (or even an end to) working from home. This is partly because of the financial implications of running near-empty trains. Where one works (and eats lunch) also affects levels of employment at the fast food retailers in urban centres, near places of work, etc (Pret A Manger etc) I doubt that everyone will return immediately. I wonder if there will be a drift back to offices, even if only 'several days a week'.
I still expect a second wave, and that it might be severe enough to cause a short second lockdown here in London (maybe a couple of weeks). This is for reasons totally unconnected with anything I have discussed at DD before and I cannot make a connection with this thread and why it is expected to happen without causing an upset.
|
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Jul 11, 2020 10:18:49 GMT
As an aside, I see what we are currently going through as significant (in its own way) for London's railways as was WW2 and I'm hoping that no services end up suffering the same fate as the Northern Heights routes which were meant to become part of the Northern line but during WW2 were run down / temporarily suspended as a war-time coal saving economy and ended up being permanently closed. (I also have the Palace Gates branch in mind)
Unlikely because the only thing actually being built at present is Crossrail - and thats almost finished.
What will have happened is prospects of the Bakerloo line extension to Lewisham and a second Crossrail (SW - NE) will have taken a hit, but as neither has had any work done on the ground and they are both to relieve existing busy rail corridors its rather different to the post war situation where the Northern Heights works had been started on the ground and the Palace Gates line was an insignificant branch line. The other thing that could be affected is the proposed Brent Cross - Old Oak - Hounslow service although with HS2 and the Brent Cross redevelopment going ahead it has a better chance than the other two schemes of being taken forward.
Right now I am concerned for the future of the Watford Junction - St Albans Abbey service, where buses continue to replace trains. Had it not been electrified this service would have been ideal for Class 230 Vivarail trains. Maybe there are some old overhead electric trains that could be used in this route. |
|
|
|
Post by orienteer on Jul 11, 2020 10:28:52 GMT
Meanwhile, an ever increasing number of people are going by car, so that traffic congestion and air pollution are increasing, with the situation not helped by new bike lanes and speed limit reductions (although if the roads are congested then the limit becomes a moot point). New bike lanes help to reduce congestion, not make it worse. The more people that cycle, the less on public transport and in cars. Also a lot less pollution, as the lockdown has demonstrated very well. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Jul 11, 2020 12:49:52 GMT
The bus lane on the Euston Road has been taken out for a temporary bike lane.
Not sensible. There are other examples.
|
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Jul 11, 2020 19:18:00 GMT
The issue with the Euston Road bike lanes is partly that that they replace bus lanes, leaving bus passengers delayed in traffic and also because of the speed limit reduction. Admittedly for this road the combination of many closely spaced traffic signals and traffic congestion means that (during the day) traffic is rarely able to flow much above 20mph. It seems that speed limit reductions for bike lanes are done as a knee-jerk reaction as if it is *the* one and only idea that will offer cyclists perfect safety, even though a very significant number of fatal traffic incidents which involve cyclists are when heavy goods vehicles are turning left or right at junctions - manoeuvrers which are usually done whilst travelling well below 20mph!
I do not object to building bike lanes per se, and in fact will be surprised if most of the recently introduced bus lanes in London do not become permanent. Maybe this specific bike lane will even replace the Tavistock Road bike lane that the cabbies so dislike. What I object to are changes for one group of people which disadvantage other people, this includes disadvantaging bus passengers and all other road users via a speed limit reduction.
20mph speed limits are bad for buses, causing them to travel more slowly, timetables have to be rewritten to take into account the extended journey times and often the frequency is cut rather than increase operating costs by adding an extra journey (requires an extra bus and driver, without any hope of increasing fares income) to maintain the service frequency.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196 
|
Post by Tom on Jul 11, 2020 20:39:59 GMT
It seems that speed limit reductions for bike lanes are done as a knee-jerk reaction as if it is *the* one and only idea that will offer cyclists perfect safety Ask anyone remotely connected with ensuring safety in systems and they will tell you there is no such thing as perfect or complete safety. It is all about reducing the risk (likelihood x severity) to an acceptable level, but it can never be eliminated. These aren't just for one group of people, i.e. cyclists. They are also designed to benefit pedestrians as well. There is a 20% chance of fatality for pedestrians involved in a road traffic accident when they are hit at 30mph, compared to 2.5% at 20mph. And if you're going to complain about recent changes on the Euston Road, may I suggest you take a drive in the London Broroughs of Camden, Hammersmith and Fulham, or Ealing was well? They all have large sections where the speed limit is 20mph. My experience is that many buses in London struggle to attain and rarely exceed 20mph regardless of traffic conditions. Whereas most vehicles have a 0-60mph characteristic, for many London Buses it seems that 0-20mph is more appropriate. None of this has been changed by adding some cycle lanes. Anyway, back on topic... |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 14, 2020 9:50:02 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by sawb on Jul 17, 2020 11:50:35 GMT
I apologise if this has been mentioned and I've just not looked back far enough in the thread, but why did the Waterloo & City line not resume Monday to Friday operations on 6th July, as originally planned? Is there a new date yet for the resumption of Monday to Friday operation for the Waterloo & City line?
|
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 17, 2020 17:55:34 GMT
I apologise if this has been mentioned and I've just not looked back far enough in the thread, but why did the Waterloo & City line not resume Monday to Friday operations on 6th July, as originally planned? Is there a new date yet for the resumption of Monday to Friday operation for the Waterloo & City line? The word around the depot is that it was a "social distancing" issue. Every room in train crew accommodation has been given a maximum number of people depending on how many 2m squares they can fit inside. The step-back room at Waterloo which doubles as a mess room is so small it would struggle to hold one! |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jul 18, 2020 9:03:53 GMT
Government advice is that public transport is no longer restricted to “essential” journeys.
|
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 21, 2020 16:49:42 GMT
We have been told by the reps that next week we will start refreshers on the Waterloo & City Line as some people are getting close to six months without working down there and need to keep their licences up to date.
The refresher will consist of driving from Waterloo to Bank and back again twice without an IOp as social distancing means we still can only have one person in the cab at a time. Still no indication of when the W&C will be reopening
|
|
|
|
Post by toby on Jul 22, 2020 14:06:21 GMT
When you're not carrying passengers, such as this refresher, can you leave the cab door open while the IOp sits on a passenger seat? Or is there some interlock stopping movement?
|
|
North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
|
Post by North End on Jul 22, 2020 14:30:38 GMT
When you're not carrying passengers, such as this refresher, can you leave the cab door open while the IOp sits on a passenger seat? Or is there some interlock stopping movement? Yes from a technical perspective you can, but naturally there’s the issue that an I/O would then have difficulty monitoring everything that’s going on. Another issue is that in stocks where it’s impossible to fully turn off saloon lighting this could prove a distraction. |
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Jul 23, 2020 7:30:45 GMT
One of those instances where we have to endure less than optimal conditions, in order to keep things running during an emergency.
We're rather good at that, though.
|
|
|
|
Post by nig on Jul 23, 2020 11:28:05 GMT
Anyone know why the service status of all lines is still special service when nearly all lines are now running a full service with only 1 or 2 trains cancelled a day ?
|
|
|
|
Post by MoreToJack on Jul 23, 2020 18:47:56 GMT
We’re definitely not at only one or two trains cancelled a day.
|
|
|
|
Post by nig on Jul 23, 2020 19:00:26 GMT
We’re definitely not at only one or two trains cancelled a day. Picadilly Victoria jubilee central district northern and bakerloo seem to be only having a few trains cancelled and some have a full sercice going by the daily summary it's only met circle and Hammersmith and city that seem to be having problems |
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Jul 24, 2020 22:49:00 GMT
The refresher will consist of driving from Waterloo to Bank and back again twice without an IOp as social distancing means we still can only have one person in the cab at a time. Still no indication of when the W&C will be reopening I thought the social distancing distance was now "1m+"; stay 1m apart plus wear PPE. Isn't the I/Op seat over 1m away from the T/Op seat? |
|
North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
|
Post by North End on Jul 24, 2020 23:41:12 GMT
The refresher will consist of driving from Waterloo to Bank and back again twice without an IOp as social distancing means we still can only have one person in the cab at a time. Still no indication of when the W&C will be reopening I thought the social distancing distance was now "1m+"; stay 1m apart plus wear PPE. Isn't the I/Op seat over 1m away from the T/Op seat? Without having measured, no I don’t think on most stocks it is. There shouldn’t really be a need for I/Os on the W&C as most drivers shouldn’t have exceeded the 6 months threshold, so a trip on their own should suffice, unless some agreement has been made to the contrary, and I don’t see why that should need to be the case. Presumably this is the reason they’re doing this now, to avoid 6 months elapsing. Obviously there may well be a small number who have gone over 6 months for whatever reason, perhaps through having been off the handle back in March (eg sick). There are certainly discussions in place to come up with a method for how in-cab training can resume, with measures such as masks and even bubbles being considered, however last I knew nothing is yet finalised. I’ve been off for a couple of weeks so this may have progressed in the meantime. |
|
|
|
Post by davidr1986 on Jul 25, 2020 3:36:01 GMT
The special service announcements have gone
Waterloo and City showing as closed until further notice |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 25, 2020 10:42:05 GMT
Interesting stat from Heidi Alexander on Twitter, TfL's revenue is 72% fares compared to 38% in New York, 21% in Singapore, 37% in Hong Kong, 38% in Paris and 47% in Madrid. Easy to see why two months of lockdown with a 90% reduction in passengers was so disastrous to TfL's finances
|
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 25, 2020 11:16:05 GMT
The special service announcements have gone
Waterloo and City showing as closed until further notice Indeed, changed from today reverting to the previous "Good", "minor delays", "severe delays" messages. |
|
|
|
Post by PiccNT on Jul 25, 2020 11:37:05 GMT
I thought the social distancing distance was now "1m+"; stay 1m apart plus wear PPE. Isn't the I/Op seat over 1m away from the T/Op seat? Without having measured, no I don’t think on most stocks it is. There shouldn’t really be a need for I/Os on the W&C as most drivers shouldn’t have exceeded the 6 months threshold, so a trip on their own should suffice, unless some agreement has been made to the contrary, and I don’t see why that should need to be the case. Presumably this is the reason they’re doing this now, to avoid 6 months elapsing. Obviously there may well be a small number who have gone over 6 months for whatever reason, perhaps through having been off the handle back in March (eg sick). There are certainly discussions in place to come up with a method for how in-cab training can resume, with measures such as masks and even bubbles being considered, however last I knew nothing is yet finalised. I’ve been off for a couple of weeks so this may have progressed in the meantime. On the '73 stock, it's about 78cm between the driver and I/Op seat. There will be a trial initially for in-cab training. I've been off on leave this week but my colleagues have received the first of a series of briefings regarding the resumption of training. Whilst the majority of my colleagues are happy to resume, we have concerns about wearing masks/visors for long periods of time knowing how unpleasant that is, especially in a confined space. We have some ideas such as doing shorter trips initially but this will inevitably mean that we are withdrawn from our normal roster and will run either training trains or commandeer trains as required. Communicating with PPE on may be an issue especially with the usual noise we have so the trial will hopefully be an opportunity to iron out issues as they arise. |
|
|
|
Post by londonstuff on Jul 26, 2020 21:20:16 GMT
Interesting stat from Heidi Alexander on Twitter, TfL's revenue is 72% fares compared to 38% in New York, 21% in Singapore, 37% in Hong Kong, 38% in Paris and 47% in Madrid. Easy to see why two months of lockdown with a 90% reduction in passengers was so disastrous to TfL's finances <<off topic>> Though Hong Kong, with the close links to the Government, the fact that basically everyone has to use it and the use of the building itself as a commercial enterprise, makes a massive profit. In April they reduced prices to incentivise people into using it again. This is an interesting article (though a few years old). |
|
