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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 22, 2020 14:05:53 GMT
Though I’m not sure if LU has put it in their new Rule Book 25 as a requirement? Rule Book 25 will not be issued. now issued as:  |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jun 22, 2020 14:50:17 GMT
At the risk of going off-topic, and also at the risk of sounding far older than I actually am, what is the 'Insights and Direction Team'? It's as bad as 'Customer Experience' on a job title, as seen on MTR Crossrail name badges.
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Post by jimbo on Jun 26, 2020 0:15:32 GMT
Since Saturday 9 May Heathrow Terminal 4 station has been closed along with the terminal it serves. Today I read "A report out on Thursday from S&P Global Ratings, one of the three giant credit rating agencies, predicts it will take until at least 2023 for airlines to just get back to where they were in 2019."
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jun 29, 2020 6:50:22 GMT
It was an interesting experiment, the overnight service. The virus control measures might be a good opportunity to ditch it, or run equivalent buses. This would also remove a liability to safety-critical p-way inspections. Buses cannot compete, partly because of the proliferation of 20mph snail slow speed limits but also because the pandemic has seen roads closed to all but bikes - especially in Central London, a blight that affects some normal day-time buses too. Hopefully these closures will not be permanent, it will be bad for bus travel in London, making it harder to reach some areas. Especially for those who cannot walk distances. It could also make central London less attractive as a place to be for to some businesses who will then chose to relocate elsewhere - London needs as many businesses of all types as possible, as these generate the wealth that will (via local taxes) help fund future transport investments - as we know, the virus pandemic has already severely strained transport finances and as a result of the ability to 'work-at-home' some businesses may be about to review their physical presences, so for the sake of future investment we need actions that make staying here the most attractive actions. It will be very bad for transport in London if businesses decide to relocate to outer suburban business parks, such as Stockley Park, which are remote from railways and whilst they may have bus services they are primarily designed for car commuting. This is chicken and egg territory. I'd have thought that by relocation of business and the likely proliferation of working from home, the need for future transport enhancements (aside from necessary maintenance) won't be as necessary so the funds you mention won't be needed. I doubt that most people would want to get onto a packed commuter train again if there was an alternative, I certainly wouldn't now if I were able to do my job somewhere else. Rather than "we need more trains so we need people to use them" surely the positive to come out of this is "we won't have to spend as much as we thought on transport in London as the demand has moved elsewhere". You never know, it might also go someway towards driving house prices down towards something sensible and marginally affordable to the average person. |
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Post by sawb on Jun 29, 2020 7:22:25 GMT
Given we're expecting Rail Delivery Group to make an announcement later today for each operator about what 85% service levels will look like, are we expecting something similar from TfL?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 29, 2020 10:21:16 GMT
Given we're expecting Rail Delivery Group to make an announcement later today for each operator about what 85% service levels will look like, are we expecting something similar from TfL? LU have been running normal Working Timetables across the network (except Waterloo & City) since end-of May, with the Hammersmith & City/Circle being the last to revert on 15 June. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 29, 2020 23:17:16 GMT
something new that I first saw a few days ago and I suspect has to be as a result of the virus situation
(hopefully this tweet will show up)
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 30, 2020 6:47:58 GMT
something new that I first saw a few days ago and I suspect has to be as a result of the virus situation First appeared on trains around 28 May, along with social distancing notices on the car windows. Oddly (uniquely?), ‘73 Stock have the notices on the upper part of the curved door glass.    |
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Post by pgb on Jun 30, 2020 7:08:39 GMT
something new that I first saw a few days ago and I suspect has to be as a result of the virus situation First appeared on trains around 28 May, along with social distancing notices on the car windows. Oddly (uniquely?), ‘73 Stock have the notices on the upper part of the curved door glass. (pic later) flic.kr/p/2j87F7gCentral Line passengers are obviously shorter than Piccadilly ones then! Will they let people off the train first - probably not! |
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Post by Chris L on Jun 30, 2020 10:33:34 GMT
Saw them on S stock last Tuesday
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Post by PiccNT on Jun 30, 2020 10:47:20 GMT
And we have the 2 metre stickers on virtually every window. Doubt if there is the money to replace them with 1 metre + stickers. Still a good proportion of passengers not complying with the face covering law. Maybe it's just because I do lates and there are fewer people about.
I wonder how long it will be until LU decide that the normal working timetables are providing a service that is way in excess of what's needed outside of the peaks. With more reports on car usage increasing rather than using the tube, it surely isn't sustainable to run virtually empty trains. The new normal maybe with us long term.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 30, 2020 11:28:35 GMT
The full service is a requirement of central government funding
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Post by North End on Jun 30, 2020 11:31:45 GMT
And we have the 2 metre stickers on virtually every window. Doubt if there is the money to replace them with 1 metre + stickers. Still a good proportion of passengers not complying with the face covering law. Maybe it's just because I do lates and there are fewer people about. I wonder how long it will be until LU decide that the normal working timetables are providing a service that is way in excess of what's needed outside of the peaks. With more reports on car usage increasing rather than using the tube, it surely isn't sustainable to run virtually empty trains. The new normal maybe with us long term. Ultimately a massive shakeup is probably now inevitable. There’s already a massive hole in resourcing (just on the basis of no training having been going on for four months). I’d say expect night tube drivers to be offered full time or nothing, and massive cuts in back office functions. If there still aren’t enough staff to rosters then service cuts are likely to be inevitable, though redeploying night tube drivers may mitigate this. I can’t see night tube returning - with a training backlog it just won’t prove efficient to train people for two days of productive work. Perhaps we’ll see later last trains on the two nights plus weekday startup times on Sundays. |
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Post by piccboy on Jun 30, 2020 11:51:08 GMT
something new that I first saw a few days ago and I suspect has to be as a result of the virus situation First appeared on trains around 28 May, along with social distancing notices on the car windows. Oddly (uniquely?), ‘73 Stock have the notices on the upper part of the curved door glass. (pic later) flic.kr/p/2j87F7gflic.kr/p/2j85hLAAs from Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone, the platform height is considerably higher than the rest of the line. The placement of the notices on 73 stock to make it visible to customers from those stations as well as the rest of the line makes sense. |
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Post by PiccNT on Jun 30, 2020 12:16:22 GMT
And we have the 2 metre stickers on virtually every window. Doubt if there is the money to replace them with 1 metre + stickers. Still a good proportion of passengers not complying with the face covering law. Maybe it's just because I do lates and there are fewer people about. I wonder how long it will be until LU decide that the normal working timetables are providing a service that is way in excess of what's needed outside of the peaks. With more reports on car usage increasing rather than using the tube, it surely isn't sustainable to run virtually empty trains. The new normal maybe with us long term. Ultimately a massive shakeup is probably now inevitable. There’s already a massive hole in resourcing (just on the basis of no training having been going on for four months). I’d say expect night tube drivers to be offered full time or nothing, and massive cuts in back office functions. If there still aren’t enough staff to rosters then service cuts are likely to be inevitable, though redeploying night tube drivers may mitigate this. I can’t see night tube returning - with a training backlog it just won’t prove efficient to train people for two days of productive work. Perhaps we’ll see later last trains on the two nights plus weekday startup times on Sundays. Our depot have had a small number (I think four) Night Tube staff transferred to us permanently full time from this week and I fully expect more to follow. I also expect this has happened elsewhere on the combine. With the amount of NT staff now gone/going from the establishment, it's hard to see how this is ever going to get reintroduced. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 30, 2020 12:16:50 GMT
As from Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone, the platform height is considerably higher than the rest of the line. The placement of the notices on 73 stock to make it visible to customers from those stations as well as the rest of the line makes sense. I hope not, as the ‘73 Stock still work the Piccadilly |
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Post by PiccNT on Jun 30, 2020 12:22:10 GMT
As from Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone, the platform height is considerably higher than the rest of the line. The placement of the notices on 73 stock to make it visible to customers from those stations as well as the rest of the line makes sense. I hope not, as the ‘73 Stock still work the Piccadilly Just trying to work out how many wrong sticks that would take. |
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Post by nig on Jun 30, 2020 12:39:22 GMT
Ultimately a massive shakeup is probably now inevitable. There’s already a massive hole in resourcing (just on the basis of no training having been going on for four months). I’d say expect night tube drivers to be offered full time or nothing, and massive cuts in back office functions. If there still aren’t enough staff to rosters then service cuts are likely to be inevitable, though redeploying night tube drivers may mitigate this. I can’t see night tube returning - with a training backlog it just won’t prove efficient to train people for two days of productive work. Perhaps we’ll see later last trains on the two nights plus weekday startup times on Sundays. Our depot have had a small number (I think four) Night Tube staff transferred to us permanently full time from this week and I fully expect more to follow. I also expect this has happened elsewhere on the combine. With the amount of NT staff now gone/going from the establishment, it's hard to see how this is ever going to get reintroduced. That's because Arnos has reduced the Night tube operators by 8 and Acton 7 with the new timetables coming in and with no training going on they cant transfer lines yet so when cross line training comes back not sure how many will be staying |
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Post by PiccNT on Jun 30, 2020 12:56:45 GMT
Our depot have had a small number (I think four) Night Tube staff transferred to us permanently full time from this week and I fully expect more to follow. I also expect this has happened elsewhere on the combine. With the amount of NT staff now gone/going from the establishment, it's hard to see how this is ever going to get reintroduced. That's because Arnos has reduced the Night tube operators by 8 and Acton 7 with the new timetables coming in and with no training going on they cant transfer lines yet so when cross line training comes back not sure how many will be staying Yes, but if hypothetically night tube does return, it will presumably revert to the original schedule requiring the original resource. That's going to be a big ask to resource that with such a training backlog. |
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Post by Chris M on Jun 30, 2020 14:20:38 GMT
How long did the training take when the service was first introduced?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 30, 2020 14:40:23 GMT
As from Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone, the platform height is considerably higher than the rest of the line. The placement of the notices on 73 stock to make it visible to customers from those stations as well as the rest of the line makes sense. I hope not, as the ‘73 Stock still work the Piccadilly The 73s do visit compromise height platforms on the Uxbridge branch and in the Acton/Ealing area. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 16:43:56 GMT
Night tube areas still have the traction current on Friday and Saturday nights
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Post by North End on Jun 30, 2020 17:10:21 GMT
That's because Arnos has reduced the Night tube operators by 8 and Acton 7 with the new timetables coming in and with no training going on they cant transfer lines yet so when cross line training comes back not sure how many will be staying Yes, but if hypothetically night tube does return, it will presumably revert to the original schedule requiring the original resource. That's going to be a big ask to resource that with such a training backlog. A massive ask, and one has to question whether it’s a good use of resources to pay for and devote training resources to people who will only be 40% as productive as a full-time train operator. It was always questionable, now it’s not just questionable but simply unviable I suspect. |
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Post by North End on Jun 30, 2020 17:12:18 GMT
How long did the training take when the service was first introduced? Same as normal train operator. Others will have to say exactly what that (has been slimmed down to) is nowadays. |
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Post by superteacher on Jun 30, 2020 18:09:37 GMT
We drift. Back on topic please.
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Post by philthetube on Jun 30, 2020 20:00:43 GMT
Drivers spend 1 week per year training so have effectively lost 2 days, (though it doesn't work like that, which is not a huge amount to make up. however it wouldn't surprise me if a short term derogation was allowed for a slightly longer period between training periods. There is already a certain amount of flexibility in the system and a driver does not become out of licence immediately 12 months have passed with no training.
Replacement staff to cover natural wastage is another issue however, although we do not know how many, if any, will be needed.
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Post by North End on Jun 30, 2020 20:56:40 GMT
Drivers spend 1 week per year training so have effectively lost 2 days, (though it doesn't work like that, which is not a huge amount to make up. however it wouldn't surprise me if a short term derogation was allowed for a slightly longer period between training periods. There is already a certain amount of flexibility in the system and a driver does not become out of licence immediately 12 months have passed with no training. Replacement staff to cover natural wastage is another issue however, although we do not know how many, if any, will be needed. Assuming the timetables remain the same, it’s a case of current establishment minus retirements plus any night tube drivers repurposed to full time. There is a problem in that even assuming anything else remained the same people will have been retiring as planned. With things like fit for the future there isn’t quite such a stock of operational staff in other grades to draw from either, so there will be backfill issues too. I wouldn’t be surprised to see direct recruiting make a return, as well as drawing from elsewhere in TFL. With cuts almost inevitable there may be some back-office staff ripe to be repurposed to operational roles even. Ultimately operational staff may be a golden asset for a while, especially those in more specialised roles like train operations or service control. Possibly signal department too? |
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 4, 2020 12:37:10 GMT
What with more businesses being allowed to re-open I recently received an email from TfL on the theme of more people using public transport and information about some of the changes (one-way walking routes, etc) at stations.
One of the businesses which is allowed to reopen is pubs. Obviously no-one wants to see people under the influence of alcohol driving cars, nor any other type of road vehicle, but are they any more welcome on public transport?
To turn this topic round and make it directly relevant to the virus lockdown, I am curious to know if one of the few side-effects (to have pleased LU staff) of the events of the recent months has been zero need to clean up after drunken passengers disgrace themselves on station platforms / trains?
A few days ago I was contacted by an American gent who is researching (for a book) how the restrictions on using public transport (and even the fear of catching the virus on public transport before any restrictions were imposed) affected Londoners, plus our expectations for the future. I was interviewed yesterday (Friday 3rd July) and as this thread at DD is in the public domain I also sent him a link so that he can read about some of the operational difficulties which were experienced and how the passenger service had to be frequently modified depending on how many staff were available. Admittedly 30+ pages is a lot to read! I was not chosen out of 'specialness', rather its solely because my name is 'out there' on my 'Railfanning London's Underground' website. For all I know other people with web sites were (or are going to be) contacted too.
This made me think more about the future; will remote working reduce the numbers travelling - and is that really such a terrible thing? After all, if it means that rush hours are less busy then its probably for the best (although the financial implications might become an issue). For the longer term the massive passenger capacity of Crossrail will distort the situation, especially on east - west routes.
As an aside, I see what we are currently going through as significant (in its own way) for London's railways as was WW2 and I'm hoping that no services end up suffering the same fate as the Northern Heights routes which were meant to become part of the Northern line but during WW2 were run down / temporarily suspended as a war-time coal saving economy and ended up being permanently closed. (I also have the Palace Gates branch in mind)
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Post by North End on Jul 4, 2020 12:45:20 GMT
What with more businesses being allowed to re-open I recently received an email from TfL on the theme of more people using public transport and information about some of the changes (one-way walking routes, etc) at stations. One of the businesses which is allowed to reopen is pubs. Obviously no-one wants to see people under the influence of alcohol driving cars, nor any other type of road vehicle, but are they any more welcome on public transport? To turn this topic round and make it directly relevant to the virus lockdown, I am curious to know if one of the few side-effects (to have pleased LU staff) of the events of the recent months has been zero need to clean up after drunken passengers disgrace themselves on station platforms / trains? Something else that is relevant to the virus and our Underground railway is that an American who is researching (for a book) how the restrictions on using public transport (and even the fear of catching the virus on public transport before any restrictions were imposed) affected Londoners, plus our expectations for the future. As this thread at DD is in the public domain I sent him a link so that he can read about some of the operational difficulties which were experienced and how the passenger service had to be frequently modified depending on how many staff were available. Admittedly 30+ pages is a lot to read! As for the future, well I suppose that remote working will reduce the numbers travelling, but if it means that rush hours are less busy then its probably for the best (although the financial implications might become an issue). For the longer term the massive passenger capacity of Crossrail will distort the situation, especially on east - west routes. I was not chosen out of 'specialness', rather its solely because my name is 'out there' on my 'Railfanning London's Underground' website. For all I know other people with web sites were (or are going to be) contacted too. As an aside, I see what we are currently going through as significant (in its own way) for London's railways as was WW2 and I'm hoping that no services end up suffering the same fate as the Northern Heights routes which were meant to become part of the Northern line but during WW2 were run down / cancelled and ended up being permanently closed. Yes the last few months have been good from a point of view of there being very few passenger-related delays. It does go to show just how many issues passengers themselves cause in normal times, especially in the evenings. There has however been a noticeable increase in problems over the last couple of weeks, although still nothing compared to normal. Part of the rationale for the “essential journeys” theme has been that it is going to prove highly challenging to start dealing with all that again, and at a time when the focus should be on providing an environment where clinically vulnerable people (both those passengers returning to the system to return to their workplaces, and LU staff returning to work themselves) feel safe using trains, scenes like we see on a typical Friday and Saturday evening are something we could all well do without to be honest. Without wishing to stray too far into the political realm, this country does seem to have a very strange sense of priority. Holidays and pubs seem far more important to society than getting the majority of workers back to work and children back to school. Thankfully the weather is autumnal this weekend, which might help prevent us seeing a “New Year’s Eve” scenario. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 4, 2020 13:02:06 GMT
Yes, as much as I was 'most unhappy' at being made unwelcome, I understand how people making 'non-essential' journeys* had to be discouraged from travelling because the train services were reduced and there was a need for social distancing. I still recall the rush hour scenes on the TV news showing packed trains in the early days of the pandemic at stations such as Canning Town. I fully expect that some of these passengers caught the virus as a result.
What I also recall is the damning media comment (I'm treading softly with my words!) because of the train service reductions blaming our Mayor (etc) but totally failing to understand why it was happening (train drivers off sick / shielding)
As an aside, I edited my original message so your quote shows an older version.
*)evokes thoughts of the WW2 "is your journey really necessary" message, although I'm too young to actually remember it
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