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Post by jimbo on Jul 28, 2020 20:17:09 GMT
Whilst services on most lines appear close to normal, except W&C, there are still many stations that remain closed, and as many that are open only reduced hours. With TfL financial problems, are there any that may not reopen? Some of the closed stations on the system ended their days in a similar way!
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on Jul 28, 2020 21:49:06 GMT
Whilst services on most lines appear close to normal, except W&C, there are still many stations that remain closed, and as many that are open only reduced hours. With TfL financial problems, are there any that may not reopen? Some of the closed stations on the system ended their days in a similar way! I don’t think this is likely, however there is one station whose future does perhaps have a very faint hint of question mark, that being Heathrow Terminal 4. Even that I’d suggest closure isn’t as much as likely, but it’s certainly within the realms of plausibility given what’s going on. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 1, 2020 7:50:15 GMT
We're still short of drivers on the Central Line, yesterday I was working a dead late Waterloo & City duty, as its shut all W&C duties are used as additional spares. I ended up covering the second half of a West Ruislip duty then had to get a staff taxi back to Leytonstone because by the time I'd stabled the train and walked out of the depot the last eastbound had left.
I almost went into overtime thanks to heavy traffic on the A40; why are so many people driving around after midnight when nowhere is open?
If the W&C had been open they probably would have cancelled the train due to "ONA" (operator not available) although to be honest I doubt if anyone would have noticed as there are very few passengers around that time of night.
On the plus side I finally got a ride in a hybrid LEVC TX, very impressive.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 1, 2020 12:25:29 GMT
Whilst services on most lines appear close to normal, except W&C, there are still many stations that remain closed, and as many that are open only reduced hours. With TfL financial problems, are there any that may not reopen? Some of the closed stations on the system ended their days in a similar way! I don’t think this is likely, however there is one station whose future does perhaps have a very faint hint of question mark, that being Heathrow Terminal 4. Even that I’d suggest closure isn’t as much as likely, but it’s certainly within the realms of plausibility given what’s going on. I am surprised that stations such as Temple are still closed, especially as it does not have lifts - unlike some of the other closed stations. I assume that it will eventually reopen but maybe having several stations on that line closed has made services easier to operate? re: T4, I think that air travel will rebound, but it may be 2021 or even 2022 before T4 is reopened. By the mid 2020s (maybe sooner) I expect something new that will resolve the air pollution and noise issues that blight airports and areas around them, so if anything there will be no reason to hold back on air travel. So, in short T4 and its railway stations will be needed. T5 too! |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 1, 2020 13:00:27 GMT
Back in 2014 Cover Group D included eight stations from Bow Road to Temple excluding Mile End, Tower Hill and Monument. Temple (min. staff 2) was "twinned" with Blackfriars (min. staff 2 increasing to 3 from 07:00 until 23:00 M-F), obviously with the National Rail station upstairs keeping Blackfriars open is going to be the priority. I imagine the same would apply with Cannon Street taking priority over Mansion House with a similar situation applying for Aldgate East, Whitechapel and Bow Road over Stepney Green.
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Post by Chris L on Aug 1, 2020 18:19:08 GMT
Back in 2014 Cover Group D included eight stations from Bow Road to Temple excluding Mile End, Tower Hill and Monument. Temple (min. staff 2) was "twinned" with Blackfriars (min. staff 2 increasing to 3 from 07:00 until 23:00 M-F), obviously with the National Rail station upstairs keeping Blackfriars open is going to be the priority. I imagine the same would apply with Cannon Street taking priority over Mansion House with a similar situation applying for Aldgate East, Whitechapel and Bow Road over Stepney Green. Cannon Street does have a single lift which may have been a complicating factor but open now. Temple is heavily used by people in the legal business. I wonder how many are still working from home. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 2, 2020 7:46:15 GMT
PLANNED UNDERGROUND STATION CLOSURES 2020:
Thu 19 March
Arsenal
Barbican
Borough
Bounds Green
Bow Road
Caledonian Road
Covent Garden
Goodge Street
Hampstead
Manor House
Fri 20 March
Bayswater
Chancery Lane
Charing Cross
Great Portland Street
Holland Park
Hyde Park Corner
Mansion House
Pimlico
Queensway
Sat 21 March
Bermondsey
Chalk Farm
Clapham South
Gloucester Road
Kilburn Park
Lancaster Gate
Mornington Crescent
Regent’s Park
St. James’s Park
Southwark
South Wimbledon
Swiss Cottage
Stepney Green
Temple
Tufnell Park
Warwick Avenue
Sun 22 March
Blackhorse Road
Mon 23 March
Redbridge
Sat 9 May
Heathrow Terminal 4
STATION REOPENINGS 2020:
Mon 18 May
Bayswater
Blackhorse Road
Bounds Green
Bow Road
Mansion House
Pimlico
Warwick Avenue
Mon 8 June
Barbican
Caledonian Road
Holland Park
Mornington Crescent
Mon 15 June
Bermondsey M-F 0700-1900
Chancery Lane M-F 0700-1900
Mon 6 July
Gloucester Road daily 0700-2300
Great Portland Street daily
Queensway M-F 0700-1900
Redbridge M-F 0700-1900
Mon 13 July
Arsenal M-F 0700-1900
Clapham South M-F 0700-1900
Hampstead M-F 0700-1900
Hyde Park Corner M-F 0700-1900
Kilburn Park daily 0700-2300
Southwark M-F 0700-1900
Swiss Cottage M-F 0700-1900
Mon 27 July
Regent's Park M-F 0700-1900
Mon 10 August
Charing Cross daily 0700-2300
Lancaster Gate M-F 0700-1900
Sun 16 August
Gloucester Rd open without restriction
Kilburn Pk open without restriction
Manor House daily.
St. James’s Park daily 0700-2300
Mon 17 August
South Wimbledon M-F 0700-1900
Sun 23 August
Southwark open without restriction
Mon 24 August
Temple M-F 0700-1900
Mon 31 August
Goodge St M-F 0700-1900
Tufnell Park M-F 0700-2300
Tue 1 September
Stepney Green M-F 0700-2230
Sun 6 September
Arsenal open without restriction
Hyde Park Corner open without restriction
Regent's Pk open without restriction
Mon 7 September
Chancery Lane now M-F 0700-2230, Sat 0730-2200, SUN closed
Clapham South open without restriction
Sun 13 September
Hampstead now daily 0700-1900
Mon 14 September
Chalk Farm M-F 0700-1900
St. James’s Pk now open without restriction
Mon 21 September
Swiss Cottage now open without restriction
Sun 27 September
Goodge St now daily 0700-1900
South Wimbledon now open without restriction
Mon 28 September
Temple now M-F 0700-2300
Sat 3 October
Stepney Green now daily 0700-2230
Sun 4 October
Borough now open without restriction
Charing Cross now open without restriction
Goodge St now open without restriction
Mon 5 October
Chalk Farm now M-F 0700-2300
Sat 10 October
Tufnell Pk now open without restriction
Sun 18 October
Chalk Farm now open without restriction
Hampstead now open without restriction
Sun 25 October
Chancery Lane now daily 0700-2230
Mon 26 October
Stepney Green now open without restriction
Temple now open without restriction
Sun 15 November
Chancery Lane now open without restriction
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Post by jimbo on Aug 3, 2020 0:27:30 GMT
Nine stations with reduced hours listed. Is this short term until more staff are available, or part of longer term economies? We have got by without them for some time, so reduced hours is better than none. When were there last reduced hours stations on the system. I remember traditionally there was a list of them on the notes to the system diagram.
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Post by sawb on Aug 3, 2020 9:49:31 GMT
I would anticipate the vast majority of these to be short term. Queensway, Gloucester Road, Lancaster Gate and Hyde Park Corner are all invaluable in dispersing Hyde Park crowds when the time comes. From what I can gather, decisions have yet to be taken on whether Winter Wonderland will run this year, in any form.
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Post by goldenarrow on Aug 3, 2020 11:26:24 GMT
jimbo , I can just about remember Chancery Lane being closed on Sundays which I think stopped around 2005/06 and Cannon Street lasted right up until 2014 in conjunction with what was happening upstairs with the big trains.
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Post by revupminster on Aug 3, 2020 12:38:15 GMT
West Ham Station, before the C2C platform was reinstated and the Jubilee Line, closed after the last westbound train so the last few eastbound trains did not stop there. This was when the area was a very deprived area with the nearby flats holding the can't pay, won't pay Newham council tenants. The flats were refurbished by Barretts, I think, and the council let the flats to teachers. Another blackspot in Newham was Savage Gardens East Ham now demolished and part of an estate built in the early 1980's.
Not a pleasant station to work out where even the smallest children, boys and girls, were out of control terrors.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 3, 2020 14:34:48 GMT
jimbo , I can just about remember Chancery Lane being closed on Sundays which I think stopped around 2005/06 and Cannon Street lasted right up until 2016 in conjunction with what was happening upstairs with the big trains. Restricted hours at Cannon Street were lifted with WTT146 14 December 2014. |
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Post by johnlinford on Aug 4, 2020 9:10:04 GMT
Southwark station has been closed 2/4 times I've gone through it in the last couple of weeks, which I assume is staffing related.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 4, 2020 11:14:38 GMT
When I was coming back from Waterloo yesterday (I'm good for another 6 months) both Southwark and Bermondsey were closed, on the TfL website they are both listed as "Station open Monday to Friday 07:00 - 19:00 only". From the Fit for Future paperwork in 2014 Southwark was "twinned" with Westminster, Bermondsey was "twinned" with Canada Water and all four stations were in Cover group C.
From BBC transport correspondent's Twitter, "Latest mask compliance figures on transport - BTP+Tfl - 80,294 told to wear one (53,900 Tfl). 6,275 told to leave (4,888 Tfl). 285 £100 fines (244 Tfl)". TfL says "there is a small minority who refuse to comply” “90-95% compliance in peak but does dip over the course of the day".
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 4, 2020 11:31:46 GMT
Southwark station has been closed 2/4 times I've gone through it in the last couple of weeks, which I assume is staffing related. Thanks, i had missed the 13 July re-openings, now added |
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 4, 2020 22:57:56 GMT
From BBC transport correspondent's Twitter, "Latest mask compliance figures on transport - BTP+Tfl - 80,294 told to wear one (53,900 Tfl). 6,275 told to leave (4,888 Tfl). 285 £100 fines (244 Tfl)". TfL says "there is a small minority who refuse to comply” “90-95% compliance in peak but does dip over the course of the day". Earlier today... I was just about to touch-in when I remembered 'mask'. Fortunately I was not challenged and no-one was delayed whilst I put it on. On discussing the mask topic with family members a few days ago there was near universal dismay and 'why bother' when they learnt that earing a mask won't protect the wearer. I understand that many people in the USA (and some British people) won't wear masks because they see it as a sign of submission / slavery and that there is some sort of occult significance in covering one's face. I probably could get an exemption from my doctor but even though I would prefer to not wear one I am doing it. I wonder how facial recognition CCTV cameras are faring with so many hidden faces? |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 5, 2020 7:20:38 GMT
From BBC transport correspondent's Twitter, "Latest mask compliance figures on transport - BTP+Tfl - 80,294 told to wear one (53,900 Tfl). 6,275 told to leave (4,888 Tfl). 285 £100 fines (244 Tfl)". TfL says "there is a small minority who refuse to comply” “90-95% compliance in peak but does dip over the course of the day". Earlier today... I was just about to touch-in when I remembered 'mask'. Fortunately I was not challenged and no-one was delayed whilst I put it on. On discussing the mask topic with family members a few days ago there was near universal dismay and 'why bother' when they learnt that earing a mask won't protect the wearer. I understand that many people in the USA (and some British people) won't wear masks because they see it as a sign of submission / slavery and that there is some sort of occult significance in covering one's face. I probably could get an exemption from my doctor but even though I would prefer to not wear one I am doing it. I wonder how facial recognition CCTV cameras are faring with so many hidden faces? I have three masks, one permanently in my work jacket pocket, one for non-work and one in the wash. Why bother? Because it helps prevent you passing the virus onto anyone else. Almost every other "developed" country (and quite a few non-developed ones) made wearing masks compulsory months before the UK and perhaps that has contributed to lower Covid death rates (UK 680.7 per million, Italy 581.62, France 464.11, Germany 109.28) There's a word for people who regard wearing masks as a sign of submission/slavery or that is has some occult significance. That word is "moron". I can't wait until we can get back to normal and if masks will help to make that sooner rather than later then I'll happily wear one. As for facial recognition I don't have the slightest idea, not my field of expertise. |
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Post by 35b on Aug 5, 2020 7:43:45 GMT
Earlier today... I was just about to touch-in when I remembered 'mask'. Fortunately I was not challenged and no-one was delayed whilst I put it on. On discussing the mask topic with family members a few days ago there was near universal dismay and 'why bother' when they learnt that earing a mask won't protect the wearer. I understand that many people in the USA (and some British people) won't wear masks because they see it as a sign of submission / slavery and that there is some sort of occult significance in covering one's face. I probably could get an exemption from my doctor but even though I would prefer to not wear one I am doing it. I wonder how facial recognition CCTV cameras are faring with so many hidden faces? I have three masks, one permanently in my work jacket pocket, one for non-work and one in the wash. Why bother? Because it helps prevent you passing the virus onto anyone else. Almost every other "developed" country (and quite a few non-developed ones) made wearing masks compulsory months before the UK and perhaps that has contributed to lower Covid death rates (UK 680.7 per million, Italy 581.62, France 464.11, Germany 109.28) There's a word for people who regard wearing masks as a sign of submission/slavery or that is has some occult significance. That word is "moron". I can't wait until we can get back to normal and if masks will help to make that sooner rather than later then I'll happily wear one. As for facial recognition I don't have the slightest idea, not my field of expertise. On facial recognition, I can say that the face recognition on my phone doesn’t recognise me when I’ve got a mask on, making me use a passcode instead. I’ve no idea how that compares with policing or other surveillance systems. |
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Post by johnlinford on Aug 5, 2020 7:53:11 GMT
I believe when it comes to your phone you can train it to recognise you using the "Alternate Appearance" feature (on iPhone anyway). This leads me to suspect they can still do some facial recognition tracking but probably imperfectly and not easy to compare to a database of mugshots.
It frustrates me on masks that's it's not being tied to also massively improving ventilation systems with HEPA filters, UVC cleaning and fresh air intakes (impractical but not impossible for much of the underground network perhaps?) - in your management of risks PPE is always a last resort and we should be planning for the next disease while we try and solve this one. Lots of installation like that could create jobs for the many soon to be unemployed, too.
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Post by tjw on Aug 5, 2020 7:55:33 GMT
I probably could get an exemption from my doctor but even though I would prefer to not wear one I am doing it. I wonder how facial recognition CCTV cameras are faring with so many hidden faces? Please don't waste your doctors time asking for an exemption... Your G.P. needs to catch up with all the health conditions that have been ignored for the last few months. the following is from the Government Guidance, www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-ownTo make life easier for those who are exempt I have been printing out exemption cards and handing them out. (I have been working as a COVID 'safe' steward). N.B. The masks only protect others if used correctly, as for the various face coverings the less said the better. |
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class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,744 
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Post by class411 on Aug 5, 2020 9:11:13 GMT
There's a word for people who regard wearing masks as a sign of submission/slavery or that is has some occult significance. That word is "moron". And that's just one of the more polite options from a wide range that could be considered apposite for such people. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 13, 2020 18:14:49 GMT
Word around the mess room is that management want to resume training with the necessary precautions. Instructor Operators and trainees would have to wear PPE in the cab (mask and gloves for the trainee, mask, gloves and a visor for the IOp), they would have their temperature taken when booking on and would have a test once a week.
Obviously they need to procure the necessary equipment, etc. then conduct a trial but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm among the IOps to volunteer as guinea pigs.
They need to do something soon as an increasing number of drivers nearing retirement age or with health issues are choosing to call it a day and on lines without Night Tube to bolster the numbers they will start to run out of drivers.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on Aug 13, 2020 22:38:08 GMT
Word around the mess room is that management want to resume training with the necessary precautions. Instructor Operators and trainees would have to wear PPE in the cab (mask and gloves for the trainee, mask, gloves and a visor for the IOp), they would have their temperature taken when booking on and would have a test once a week. Obviously they need to procure the necessary equipment, etc. then conduct a trial but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm among the IOps to volunteer as guinea pigs. They need to do something soon as an increasing number of drivers nearing retirement age or with health issues are choosing to call it a day and on lines without Night Tube to bolster the numbers they will start to run out of drivers. I just can’t see the above working well, no one is going to want to train or be trained in that environment, and it’s hardly conducive to a relaxed and comfortable environment. Personally I’d have thought some kind of Perspex dividing screen round the driving position would work better for all but the very initial “first time driving a train” training. Not an easy problem to resolve, but one for which a solution is going to have to be found sooner rather than later. |
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Post by johnlinford on Aug 14, 2020 11:58:41 GMT
You've got real issues with ventilation in the cab if they're in there for extended times (sorry, don't know much about training but I have been writing assessments and policy for other sectors) - I would imagine some sort of scheme involving closing the front car of the train so the internal cab door could stay open, with then ventilation via the cab. Not sure how feasible selective door operation would be on some stocks?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 15, 2020 3:23:09 GMT
We've been training with two people in the cab for years so ventilation clearly isn't a problem.
Perspex screens wouldn't work, entry and exit from the cab is usually from one side of the cab, how could both get out if there's a Perspex screen dividing the cab? How would the driver reach the controls and switches on the IOp's side of the cab? How could the J Door or M Door be opened? How would it be fitted at the start of each training session or removed at the end, as the train is in passenger service with the trainee/IOp relieving a driver or being relieved?
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Post by philthetube on Aug 15, 2020 4:16:40 GMT
I think the reference to ventilation was referring to the staff breathing the same air with it not often refreshed.
Part solution for training would be to adapt some stock, maybe remove the J door all together and sort out the interior lighting to allow an instructor to sit in the saloon behind the driver at a suitable distance. this would allow social distancing while learning the road, but would not help with door operation etc.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 15, 2020 6:47:27 GMT
I think the reference to ventilation was referring to the staff breathing the same air with it not often refreshed. Part solution for training would be to adapt some stock, maybe remove the J door all together and sort out the interior lighting to allow an instructor to sit in the saloon behind the driver at a suitable distance. this would allow social distancing while learning the road, but would not help with door operation etc. While training the IOps follow the roster to ensure that trainees get driving experience at all times of day, they could be driving any train at any time so ALL cab units would have to be adapted. If you remove the J door from the cab you would need another door between the IOp and the passengers, one that was secure but would allow evacuations if necessary. |
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Post by brigham on Aug 15, 2020 7:44:14 GMT
We might just have to bite the bullet, accept that these are extraordinary times, wear a mask and gloves and get on with it.
It isn't as if Jerry's likely to drop a load of bombs on us.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 15, 2020 8:16:48 GMT
Or they could just quit as Instructor Operators, revert to being Train Operators and take a £2.5k pay cut. A lot of IOps are aged 50 or above so the risks associated with Covid-19 are worse than those for younger drivers
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Post by brigham on Aug 15, 2020 9:23:40 GMT
I suppose it would all depend on how important it is to keep the service running. Based on virus transmission alone, it would have been better from day one to lay everyone off on 80% pay, and eliminate a massive risk of infection.
Same goes for Heathrow.
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