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Post by Dstock7080 on May 15, 2020 9:36:15 GMT
Timetable Notices now issued (except Waterloo & City) for Lines to resume normal WTTs from Mon 18 May. Heathrow T4 station remains closed. Night Tube services remain suspended. On Bank Holiday Monday 25 May, Lines running will operate normal Monday service (Victoria Line closed) As said above, the District will only revert to the normal timetable Monday-Fridays, the emergency services will remain at weekends. The Circle Line will operate only 4tph in the traditional circular service. Bayswater, Mansion House, Bow Road reopen on Monday. Stepney Green, Temple, St James’s Park, Gloucester Road remain closed. |
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Post by brooklynbound on May 15, 2020 9:39:40 GMT
The government news release makes that very clear
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Post by Red Dragon on May 15, 2020 9:52:04 GMT
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Post by superteacher on May 15, 2020 11:27:57 GMT
Apparently the congestion charge is back from Monday, and being increased to £15 from June 22nd. And the advice was asking people to drive where possible and not use public transport. This is just a shambles.
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 15, 2020 13:08:21 GMT
Apparently the congestion charge is back from Monday, and being increased to £15 from June 22nd. And the advice was asking people to drive where possible and not use public transport. This is just a shambles. I don't recall anyone asking people to drive - and certainly not in the CC Zone (where would you park?) The only advice I've seen from TfL is asking us to walk and cycle where possible |
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Post by nig on May 15, 2020 13:17:08 GMT
Apparently the congestion charge is back from Monday, and being increased to £15 from June 22nd. And the advice was asking people to drive where possible and not use public transport. This is just a shambles. I don't recall anyone asking people to drive - and certainly not in the CC Zone (where would you park?) The only advice I've seen from TfL is asking us to walk and cycle where possible The prime minister said it in his speech on sunday if you can't work from home you can go back to work if it's safe to do so. Walk cycle use your own car and avoid public transport if you can |
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Post by littlejohn on May 15, 2020 14:08:39 GMT
But the PM was addressing the whole country, not just London. It must be implicit that you are only driving to work if there is somewhere to park and there is no additional charge for doing so. In any case, we are in a fast moving and expensive situation and the Treasury has had to stump up £1.6 billion to keep TfL afloat and to return to something approaching normal operation, so is the reintroduction of the CC really unreasonable or shambolic? As an aside, but possibly relevant is today’s news that infection rates in London are falling faster than the rest of the country and are now at R0.4
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Post by superteacher on May 15, 2020 15:02:26 GMT
But the PM was addressing the whole country, not just London. It must be implicit that you are only driving to work if there is somewhere to park and there is no additional charge for doing so. In any case, we are in a fast moving and expensive situation and the Treasury has had to stump up £1.6 billion to keep TfL afloat and to return to something approaching normal operation, so is the reintroduction of the CC really unreasonable or shambolic? As an aside, but possibly relevant is today’s news that infection rates in London are falling faster than the rest of the country and are now at R0.4 However, it is London that has by far the greatest level of demand, and where the issues of crowding will be most acutely felt. Many of those who currently drive it will now be forced onto public transport because they can't afford the congestion charge. In any case, on the forum we are only considering the implications on London's transport. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on May 15, 2020 15:46:11 GMT
In any case, on the forum we are only considering the implications on London's transport. We are indeed. Nice and simple.  |
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Post by littlejohn on May 15, 2020 17:25:02 GMT
In any case, on the forum we are only considering the implications on London's transport. We are indeed. Nice and simple. I was only considering the implications on London's transport. I just commented that the PM, who was quoted, wasn't restricting himself to London. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on May 15, 2020 17:50:29 GMT
We are indeed. Nice and simple. I was only considering the implications on London's transport. I just commented that the PM, who was quoted, wasn't restricting himself to London. |
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Post by spsmiler on May 15, 2020 21:26:55 GMT
I wonder if the fares issue will affect me - when I reached 60 I bought a three year Senior Citizen Railcard which (if I use the registered Oystercard) gives me a discount on rail fares here in London. This includes the Underground and DLR, but not the trams, which are charged as buses. So, I'm wondering if the discount will cease to apply for journeys that start during rush hours.
I suppose that I'll only find out when I start travelling by train again - at present we are still told to not travel by train, even off peak.
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Post by jacks on May 16, 2020 11:46:14 GMT
I wonder if the fares issue will affect me - when I reached 60 I bought a three year Senior Citizen Railcard which (if I use the registered Oystercard) gives me a discount on rail fares here in London. This includes the Underground and DLR, but not the trams, which are charged as buses. So, I'm wondering if the discount will cease to apply for journeys that start during rush hours. I suppose that I'll only find out when I start travelling by train again - at present we are still told to not travel by train, even off peak. Railcard discounts on Oyster (excluding Disabled Persons Railcard) are already off-peak only as far as I'm aware. |
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Post by Chris L on May 16, 2020 14:57:46 GMT
I wonder if the fares issue will affect me - when I reached 60 I bought a three year Senior Citizen Railcard which (if I use the registered Oystercard) gives me a discount on rail fares here in London. This includes the Underground and DLR, but not the trams, which are charged as buses. So, I'm wondering if the discount will cease to apply for journeys that start during rush hours. I suppose that I'll only find out when I start travelling by train again - at present we are still told to not travel by train, even off peak. Railcard discounts on Oyster (excluding Disabled Persons Railcard) are already off-peak only as far as I'm aware. They haven't made it clear yet whether there will be evening peak restrictions. |
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Post by sawb on May 16, 2020 15:26:41 GMT
I thought there were only restrictions on railcards during the morning peak (except disabled persons railcard)? It's certainly not as clear as it could be, that's for sure
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hobbayne
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Posts: 516
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Post by hobbayne on May 19, 2020 8:29:35 GMT
Did yesterdays ramping up of the service go as planned? I believe there where approx 30 drivers sent home for refusing to work on the grounds of safety.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on May 19, 2020 10:02:24 GMT
I can only speak for my neck of the woods - I've heard various numbers but I gather between 12 & 15 refused to work on the grounds of health & safety at Upminster yesterday morning. Only 7 trains were cancelled so I presume the spare drivers were utilised to limit the damage.
The issue is two fold involving concerns about picking up trains off other drivers in platforms (something Upminster drivers haven't done until now) and concerns about social distancing management at other locations (again something Upminster drivers have been immune to until now as all breaks were taken at Upminster). I have my own view on these matters but I don't feel this is the place to air them or indeed encourage any further discussion about it. Those people have exercised their legal right to act as they have and it is a matter for the them and LU to resolve.
Otherwise the District did operate the full normal working timetable.
I had a very brief look at Trackernet yesterday and it seemed to me that its a different picture on a line by line basis with some attempting to run the normal working timetable and others sticking to the special service patterns that they've been operating for the last few weeks. Whether that's driven by driver availability or some other reason I have no idea......
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Post by PiccNT on May 19, 2020 10:07:41 GMT
On the late shift on the Picc, the service was up the wall due to an earlier track circuit failure between Southgate and Arnos Grove WB. Even with loads of trains cancelled, it was very quiet on the whole line even with 10 minute gaps between trains. In terms of drivers, I understand there were issues with some drivers refusing to have their meal relief at a "foreign" depot and therefore refusing to pick up their train. I'll keep my opinion of this, especially as we are bound to be coming under increased scrutiny by the DoT, to myself for now!
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North End
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Post by North End on May 19, 2020 11:09:33 GMT
On the late shift on the Picc, the service was up the wall due to an earlier track circuit failure between Southgate and Arnos Grove WB. Even with loads of trains cancelled, it was very quiet on the whole line even with 10 minute gaps between trains. In terms of drivers, I understand there were issues with some drivers refusing to have their meal relief at a "foreign" depot and therefore refusing to pick up their train. I'll keep my opinion of this, especially as we are bound to be coming under increased scrutiny by the DoT, to myself for now! The Northern likewise had an unfortunate points failure at Camden right in the heart of the evening peak, which combined with everything else crucified the service - and no doubt threw a massive spanner in the social distancing arrangements. Likewise I’m going to avoid commenting on the ER issues, bar one point which is again that relations would have been better had there not been two months of simmering trouble over the botched timetable notices. Ultimately it will not be sustainable to continue running with the amount of cancellations they’ve had on the Northern these last two days, apart from the erratic service all this will do is spread ER issues to those on the ground having to sort all this out - namely service control and the train crew managers. Again those on high need to get a grip on this. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 19, 2020 12:17:39 GMT
We had a points failure on the Central Line too, I was left staring out of the tunnel at the points east of White City for about 5-10 minutes
I checked Trackernet when I got to work yesterday around 3:30pm there seemed to be quite a few trains missing but when I checked again around 7pm (meal relief) there were noticeably more trains out. Not a lot of use as after about 6pm there are hardly any passengers about. I finished around 10pm and I didn't see a single passenger at Leytonstone, east, west or ticket hall.
It would be useful if someone checked the loadings throughout the day and devised a timetable/rosters to match but I'm not holding my breath. Our management don't judge the service by how many passengers we carry, they rate it by the number of miles the trains travel. They'll report that we're running a 70% service without worrying whether the service level is too much or too little for demand.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on May 19, 2020 13:52:21 GMT
It would be useful if someone checked the loadings throughout the day and devised a timetable/rosters to match but I'm not holding my breath. That was done on the District line weeks ago and has been monitored on a daily basis by line's DRM's (mobile duty managers). LU has always been the same though - there's some good practice going on but internal communication and sharing of things never happens outside individual lines. Anyway, I've just had a quick scan of service manager logs and Trackernet and all lines bar the Circle/H&C are operating their normal working timetables today. Only the Bakerloo, District, Jubilee and Piccadilly seem to be doing well with very minimal single digit cancellations. Most other lines seem to be hovering around 16 or 17 cancelled trains......that would ordinarily be translated as severe delays but in the current climate they can get away with simply describing it as a special service. |
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North End
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Post by North End on May 19, 2020 13:55:04 GMT
We had a points failure on the Central Line too, I was left staring out of the tunnel at the points east of White City for about 5-10 minutes I checked Trackernet when I got to work yesterday around 3:30pm there seemed to be quite a few trains missing but when I checked again around 7pm (meal relief) there were noticeably more trains out. Not a lot of use as after about 6pm there are hardly any passengers about. I finished around 10pm and I didn't see a single passenger at Leytonstone, east, west or ticket hall. It would be useful if someone checked the loadings throughout the day and devised a timetable/rosters to match but I'm not holding my breath. Our management don't judge the service by how many passengers we carry, they rate it by the number of miles the trains travel. They'll report that we're running a 70% service without worrying whether the service level is too much or too little for demand. Fully agreed. A properly thought out timetable notice could have concentrated resources at the times and places needed, whilst taking account of the fact that a proportion of drivers are off due to shielding. I don’t think the night tube secondments will make enough of an impression to make up for the shielding. As it is a very heavy burden has been placed on all the staff on the ground, essentially trying to run 100% of the service with perhaps 80% of the staff (in reality of course the latter figure varies according to location - some teams have much less than 80% available). Needless to say 100 into 80 doesn’t go. Add in two months of this, and a bit of continued irritation when people see what is perceived to be a rolling Bank Holiday going on outside the window, and it’s a very sensitive situation to handle. Bull-in-china-shop management ultimately isn’t going to cut it here. Likewise what works for national rail won’t necessarily work on LU, simply due to the density of the service making it almost impossible to plan strategic cancellations. It’s much easier to juggle when you only run a few trains per hour and small depots - try doing it with 30tph or superdepots of 200 drivers, with every day being a different set of balls to juggle. |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 19, 2020 17:19:21 GMT
Our management don't judge the service by how many passengers we carry, they rate it by the number of miles the trains travel. They'll report that we're running a 70% service without worrying whether the service level is too much or too little for demand. Agreed, but that's (at least currently) because one of the government's requirements for the funding agreement is a return to pre-Covid service levels. |
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Post by North End on May 19, 2020 17:29:48 GMT
Our management don't judge the service by how many passengers we carry, they rate it by the number of miles the trains travel. They'll report that we're running a 70% service without worrying whether the service level is too much or too little for demand. Agreed, but that's (at least currently) because one of the government's requirements for the funding agreement is a return to pre-Covid service levels. Which is of course impossible unless the government has a magic train operator tree hidden away somewhere. In the foreseeable future there’s also going to be issues with other grades. It’s simply not sustainable to be running with certain places running with 3 out of 12 managers available, to give an example. One presumes there’s things going on behind the scenes to address some of these issues, then again perhaps not... |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 19, 2020 18:46:43 GMT
I don't disagree - it's the old routine of having to 'play the game' and prove it doesn't work.
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Post by MoreToJack on May 19, 2020 19:48:26 GMT
The Vic line was definitely still using its emergency train number series today.
Met has been pretty much a full service with approx three cancellations.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 21:11:42 GMT
You haven't sent 3 more trains to Watford again instead of Uxbridge  |
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Post by North End on May 20, 2020 0:21:42 GMT
I don't disagree - it's the old routine of having to 'play the game' and prove it doesn't work. Yes very true. Unfortunately playing games isn’t conducive to getting the best out of one’s staff. This could test employee relations to breaking point in some locations. Ultimately it’s not for the operating teams to keep having to juggle day after day, to make good what is now becoming a long-term failure to plan. It doesn’t help that parts of LU weren’t sufficiently resourced in the first place in terms of numbers. Patience is wearing extremely thin. |
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Post by PiccNT on May 20, 2020 9:05:14 GMT
It seemed quite relaxed, staff wise, on the late shift last night. I went through Kings X at 17:15 to find one passenger on the platform. My final trip from Uxbridge to Cockfosters I had one guy on from Uxbridge to Ruislip, one got on at Hammersmith and off at Green Pk and my 3rd and final punter on at Finsbury Park and off at Wood Green.
I still managed to get back late as the signaller appeared to spectacularly screw up a stock and crew procedure that I witnessed sitting outside Arnos Grove at PJ2's. I could see the stick off at the east end of the platform and headlights pointing towards me. And then trains coming into Cockfosters after me being allowed into the depot before me. Now that is annoying!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on May 20, 2020 14:19:26 GMT
Unfortunately playing games isn’t conducive to getting the best out of one’s staff. This could test employee relations to breaking point in some locations. Ultimately it’s not for the operating teams to keep having to juggle day after day, to make good what is now becoming a long-term failure to plan. It doesn’t help that parts of LU weren’t sufficiently resourced in the first place in terms of numbers. Patience is wearing extremely thin. Only three lines seem to be experiencing a high number of cancellations now (not counting the Circle and H&C as they are advertising a low service) - the Central, Northern & Piccadilly continue to see double figure cancellations whilst all other lines have none or very low single number cancellations. I'm not surprised at the Central and Picc still struggling as they have had notoriously bad industrial relations issues for a couple of years now, but the Northern seems to be emerging as a new player in the poor industrial relations game. Outsiders might well assume that LU operates as one entity but it is very much run on a line by line basis. Even the stations staffing is grouped on a line basis. It really does beg the question of why are some lines better than others when it comes to industrial relations, and should the finger be pointing at particular managers that are clearly not doing a good job? |
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