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Post by Tomcakes on Apr 9, 2020 11:30:54 GMT
1) the list of key workers is pretty extensive and not everyone has ID that confirm who they work for or what job they do. It is easy to forget how many workers are needed to keep a hospital functioning. I think many people assume that they only need doctors and nurses. We also need more than hospitals to keep functioning... A fact often forgotten by the "TOTAL LOCKDOWN NOW!!!!!!!!!!11" brigade.
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Post by MoreToJack on Apr 9, 2020 14:02:09 GMT
Harrow Hot Weather plan in today... for once it is absolutely not a faff in any way, shape or form. 😂
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Post by superteacher on Apr 9, 2020 14:05:07 GMT
Harrow Hot Weather plan in today... for once it is absolutely not a faff in any way, shape or form. 😂 Are the points really that bad as to need a special plan when the temperature reaches 23C?
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Post by countryman on Apr 9, 2020 14:27:15 GMT
Harrow Hot Weather plan in today... for once it is absolutely not a faff in any way, shape or form. 😂 Could someone explain what Harrow Hot Weather plan is please.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 9, 2020 15:14:16 GMT
1) the list of key workers is pretty extensive and not everyone has ID that confirm who they work for or what job they do. It is easy to forget how many workers are needed to keep a hospital functioning. I think many people assume that they only need doctors and nurses. We also need more than hospitals to keep functioning... Not just NHS staff The full list from the GOV.UK website Health and social careThis includes but is not limited to doctors, nurses, midwives, paramedics, social workers, care workers, and other frontline health and social care staff including volunteers; the support and specialist staff required to maintain the UK’s health and social care sector; those working as part of the health and social care supply chain, including producers and distributors of medicines and medical and personal protective equipment. Education and childcareThis includes childcare, support and teaching staff, social workers and those specialist education professionals who must remain active during the COVID-19 response to deliver this approach. Key public servicesThis includes those essential to the running of the justice system, religious staff, charities and workers delivering key frontline services, those responsible for the management of the deceased, and journalists and broadcasters who are providing public service broadcasting. Local and national governmentThis only includes those administrative occupations essential to the effective delivery of the COVID-19 response, or delivering essential public services, such as the payment of benefits, including in government agencies and arms length bodies. Food and other necessary goodsThis includes those involved in food production, processing, distribution, sale and delivery, as well as those essential to the provision of other key goods (for example hygienic and veterinary medicines). Public safety and national securityThis includes police and support staff, Ministry of Defence civilians, contractor and armed forces personnel (those critical to the delivery of key defence and national security outputs and essential to the response to the COVID-19 pandemic), fire and rescue service employees (including support staff), National Crime Agency staff, those maintaining border security, prison and probation staff and other national security roles, including those overseas. TransportThis includes those who will keep the air, water, road and rail passenger and freight transport modes operating during the COVID-19 response, including those working on transport systems through which supply chains pass. Utilities, communication and financial servicesThis includes staff needed for essential financial services provision (including but not limited to workers in banks, building societies and financial market infrastructure), the oil, gas, electricity and water sectors (including sewerage), information technology and data infrastructure sector and primary industry supplies to continue during the COVID-19 response, as well as key staff working in the civil nuclear, chemicals, telecommunications (including but not limited to network operations, field engineering, call centre staff, IT and data infrastructure, 999 and 111 critical services), postal services and delivery, payments providers and waste disposal sectors. That's a lot of people
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Post by superteacher on Apr 9, 2020 15:33:06 GMT
Harrow Hot Weather plan in today... for once it is absolutely not a faff in any way, shape or form. 😂 Could someone explain what Harrow Hot Weather plan is please. I’m sure MoreToJack can elaborate, but it’s restrictions / speed limits imposed in the Harrow on the Hill area to protect ageing points when rail temperatures reach a certain threshold.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 16:30:01 GMT
Its basically not moving the points at Harrow North Junction as the heat metal expands and binds everything up as the tolerances are quite tight.
Before someone says why not do this on all points well the ones on the junction are a one of design to fit the needs of that site. Some spares are not available or need to be made specifically for those points.
If they were to be used in the heat amd fail it takes a age for protection to be set up whilst technical staff go to site. If they made an adjustment today in the heat they would need adjusting again tonight as it would of cooled down, its a cycle that doesnt stop.
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hobbayne
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Post by hobbayne on Apr 10, 2020 9:44:52 GMT
It seems that station staff maybe temporarily reducing their hours due to the crisis. Train Ops will still work normally.
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Post by PiccNT on Apr 10, 2020 22:13:00 GMT
It seems that station staff maybe temporarily reducing their hours due to the crisis. Train Ops will still work normally. T/Op's aren't exactly working normally. On our line at Cockfosters, we are just doing one trip to Heathrow and back. I'm booking on at 21:40 tomorrow for a 22:15 pickup.
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hobbayne
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Post by hobbayne on Apr 10, 2020 22:28:02 GMT
It seems that station staff maybe temporarily reducing their hours due to the crisis. Train Ops will still work normally. T/Op's aren't exactly working normally. On our line at Cockfosters, we are just doing one trip to Heathrow and back. I'm booking on at 21:40 tomorrow for a 22:15 pickup. Apologies, I was referring to full time T/ops rather than night tubers.
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Post by PiccNT on Apr 10, 2020 22:44:32 GMT
T/Op's aren't exactly working normally. On our line at Cockfosters, we are just doing one trip to Heathrow and back. I'm booking on at 21:40 tomorrow for a 22:15 pickup. Apologies, I was referring to full time T/ops rather than night tubers. I am a full time T/Op, well actually an I/Op :-)
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Post by marri260 on Apr 11, 2020 1:12:24 GMT
It seems that station staff maybe temporarily reducing their hours due to the crisis. Train Ops will still work normally. T/Op's aren't exactly working normally. On our line at Cockfosters, we are just doing one trip to Heathrow and back. I'm booking on at 21:40 tomorrow for a 22:15 pickup. Not bad for some clearly - wouldn't mind a bit of that rather than being hammered with a standard 2 rounders every day at NFD. Clearly varying from depot to depot even on the same line...
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North End
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Post by North End on Apr 11, 2020 7:36:39 GMT
It seems that station staff maybe temporarily reducing their hours due to the crisis. Train Ops will still work normally. T/Op's aren't exactly working normally. On our line at Cockfosters, we are just doing one trip to Heathrow and back. I'm booking on at 21:40 tomorrow for a 22:15 pickup. On my line there’s definitely a hint of some ER issues starting to develop. For starters, it’s getting quite conspicuous that some drivers are well aware of their current value. So there have been people taking well longer on turnarounds (leading to bunching of the service), and some turning up late and saying “so what?” to the duty manager. It possibly doesn’t help that a special service can cause a situation where at times there’s quite a lot of people sitting around in the messroom. Likewise there can be an imbalance between what crews will do from depot to depot - for example on the Northern Golders Green is doing a lot of work, whereas the other depots are doing less. Unfortunately no one is really happy at the moment, so things which in the grand scheme of things are fairly minor are playing on minds. It really doesn’t help when people look out the window and see what’s going on outside. Let’s just say lockdown appeared non-existent in parts of London yesterday. There’s also been complaints of bunching on some lines. I can only speak for the Northern however the TBTC’s balanced headway function doesn’t appear to be working as designed, this being the first time it’s been used in anger. Lots of manual regulating from service control required to stop gaps opening up.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 11, 2020 8:50:54 GMT
There certainly was "bunching" one night last week, around 8:30pm we were running a 4-train service on the Epping branch, when I left Epping there was another train there and I passed the third train when I got to Theydon Bois. I passed the fourth train at Woodford Junction so it must have been in the Leytonstone area when the other three were at the east end of the line. Under normal circumstances the control room is happy to regulate the service but its seems they're not bothering at the moment.
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North End
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Post by North End on Apr 11, 2020 8:57:55 GMT
There certainly was "bunching" one night last week, around 8:30pm we were running a 4-train service on the Epping branch, when I left Epping there was another train there and I passed the third train when I got to Theydon Bois. I passed the fourth train at Woodford Junction so it must have been in the Leytonstone area when the other three were at the east end of the line. Under normal circumstances the control room is happy to regulate the service but its seems they're not bothering at the moment. I’m not sure how many of the current control systems in use actually allow headways to be automatically regulated. TBTC does, but as I say it’s not working well in practice - there is a theory that this might be partly due to the number of closed stations and shorter-than-normal dwell times due to low passenger numbers messing up the headway calculations, but control staff have tried different things to compensate for these factors and it’s made no difference. It also doesn’t help that some drivers are taking considerably longer to complete a rounder than others, with no timetable there’s no padding so these variations show up considerably. The Northern ended up with an imbalance yesterday morning with too many trains down the south end of the line and not enough at the north. A load of regulation was done, but this did then result in some trains taking twice the normal time to get from Kennington to Morden. A driver called up to complain that “why am I being regulated when there’s no one on my train?”. Can’t please everyone all the time! ;-)
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Post by Chris M on Apr 11, 2020 9:15:38 GMT
Surely an empty train is the best train to regulate?
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Post by Colin on Apr 11, 2020 9:27:14 GMT
On the District, Upminster (with a little bit of help from Barking) are covering the bulk of the line with Upminster to Olympia services. The west end now seem to be sending all their services to High Street Kensington. Dunno whether that's in response to available drivers, low passenger numbers in the central area or some other reason but the west end going round at High Street started on Thursday.
As far as Upminster goes, social distancing is very much in force - only two allowed in the book on point at any one time and all other rooms in the building have strict limits on numbers with tables and chairs suitably positioned to enable the minimum two metre gaps.
We still follow our rota in terms of giving us some basis for working hours but we now ring in advance to confirm our actual book on time. Book on time is 15 minutes before departure from Upminster (and we're expected to stick to that - no coming in early).
It obviously depends on whether you originally have an 8 hour duty or a shorter "snip turn" but you'll be told when ringing in whether you've got two trains (with a meal break in between) or just the one train. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't.
It works similarly if you're spare - you may already have a train allocated or you may actually be spare. I'm spare today and such is the nature of coverage today that I've been told to go in later than my official book on time. The idea here is to limit the amount of people in the building at any one time whenever possible.
So from the point of view of the east end of the District, its all working swimmingly. The only fly in the ointment is the numbers of passengers we're carrying in the area between Dagenham Heathway and Mile End.
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North End
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Post by North End on Apr 11, 2020 9:38:52 GMT
On the District, Upminster (with a little bit of help from Barking) are covering the bulk of the line with Upminster to Olympia services. The west end now seem to be sending all their services to High Street Kensington. Dunno whether that's in response to available drivers, low passenger numbers in the central area or some other reason but the west end going round at High Street started on Thursday. As far as Upminster goes, social distancing is very much in force - only two allowed in the book on point at any one time and all other rooms in the building have strict limits on numbers with tables and chairs suitably positioned to enable the minimum two metre gaps. We still follow our rota in terms of giving us some basis for working hours but we now ring in advance to confirm our actual book on time. Book on time is 15 minutes before departure from Upminster (and we're expected to stick to that - no coming in early). It obviously depends on whether you originally have an 8 hour duty or a shorter "snip turn" but you'll be told when ringing in whether you've got two trains (with a meal break in between) or just the one train. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. It works similarly if you're spare - you may already have a train allocated or you may actually be spare. I'm spare today and such is the nature of coverage today that I've been told to go in later than my official book on time. The idea here is to limit the amount of people in the building at any one time whenever possible. So from the point of view of the east end of the District, its all working swimmingly. The only fly in the ointment is the numbers of passengers we're carrying in the area between Dagenham Heathway and Mile End. I think the upset is occurring on those lines who are running more frequently. The Northern for example was still running what was essentially a 5-6 minute frequency yesterday - although it went slightly awry on the Barnet to Morden service as a number of trains had to go away, it seems one depot miscalculated their crew availability. Without wishing to sound cynical, a lot of this could have been avoided had LU been more sensible with the frequency delivered by the timetable notices. Had they not gone for an utterly crazy 4-minute frequency we could have had these in place already. Personally I feel “on high” has been slow to react to all this. Social distancing was slow to be brought in, indeed this is still half-hearted at some locations (pleased to hear that’s not the case at your location). The situation with the timetable notices is a complete and avoidable farce. Lastly the situation with the bus drivers beggars belief to be honest.
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Post by North End on Apr 11, 2020 9:45:40 GMT
Surely an empty train is the best train to regulate? Sort of. It’s one of those situation where you can’t really win. No doubt there were *some* passengers on those trains. Yesterday was very quiet, no doubt being Good Friday - not that many of us have even noticed it’s Easter! With hindsight, what should have perhaps happened is a couple of trains should have been reversed somewhere like Moorgate or Euston to address the imbalance. However there is a slight reluctance by some control staff to use some of the emergency reversing points at the moment for a number of reasons. And of course this assumes the crewing situation at the time would allow it. Also bear in mind the TBTC lines have tended to shift over time to a method of working where the signallers make quite a lot of the decisions (the Northern previously tended to work more on that basis than some other lines, and TBTC has furthered this). This works very well when there’s a timetable as everyone is working from the same hymn sheet. With no timetable it’s hard to take strategic decisions whilst technically only being responsible for a segment of the railway. This method of working contrasts sharply with something like the Central where the controller is still very much seen as “God”, even in a room where everyone is the same grade but performing designated roles on the day. I think the thing to add to all this is that everyone at work is generally trying to do their best in the circumstances. The whole thing is quite novel for everyone in a number of ways. It’s always going to be the case that it’s never going to be 100% perfect all the time when essentially staff are having to make the service up as they go along.
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Post by John Tuthill on Apr 11, 2020 9:51:45 GMT
Doing my weekly shop in my local this morning, one of the regulars is a SD bus driver. He said the numbers on his route are so low:"I'm taking out the reader and installing a visitors book." Stoicism to the end
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Post by nig on Apr 11, 2020 12:24:35 GMT
T/Op's aren't exactly working normally. On our line at Cockfosters, we are just doing one trip to Heathrow and back. I'm booking on at 21:40 tomorrow for a 22:15 pickup. Not bad for some clearly - wouldn't mind a bit of that rather than being hammered with a standard 2 rounders every day at NFD. Clearly varying from depot to depot even on the same line... I thought each depot on picadilly line is running 8 trains in theory should all be doing same amount of work unless there is more t/ops off or the tms aren't working as good as cockfosters as all depots got about the same amount of t/ops if you don't include night tube
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Post by PiccNT on Apr 11, 2020 18:30:12 GMT
I think we're running 6 trains at Cockfosters to Heathrow 5 and back unless diverted. I'm in later this evening but I have been going in to pick up my allocated train and there have been 6 spares sitting there doing very little. I call the day before and get myself a train. Last thing I want is to sit there doing nothing for hours on end.
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Post by marri260 on Apr 12, 2020 0:54:19 GMT
I think we're running 6 trains at Cockfosters to Heathrow 5 and back unless diverted. I'm in later this evening but I have been going in to pick up my allocated train and there have been 6 spares sitting there doing very little. I call the day before and get myself a train. Last thing I want is to sit there doing nothing for hours on end. Quite incredible! The coverage on the west end of the Pic just doesn't allow that at the moment. We're fairly comfortably staffing our 6 or 7 trains throughout the day but no way we could with only doing one rounder each or people not sitting around spare for part of the duties in between bits etc. Usually a discernable difference in coverage between the east and west end even under normal circumstances from my understanding! Sorry to drift a little...
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Post by MoreToJack on Apr 12, 2020 9:13:23 GMT
The stark contrast between T/Op depots and how coverage is working on the ground is one of the biggest employee relations issues, as @north End has alluded to a fair amount. Boasting about coming in for one rounder and going home again probably isn’t contributing to a positive atmosphere - I’m aware of some depots where colleagues are coming in for their full duties and having to sit spare in mess rooms with no choice in the matter.
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North End
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Post by North End on Apr 12, 2020 11:07:10 GMT
The stark contrast between T/Op depots and how coverage is working on the ground is one of the biggest employee relations issues, as @north End has alluded to a fair amount. Boasting about coming in for one rounder and going home again probably isn’t contributing to a positive atmosphere - I’m aware of some depots where colleagues are coming in for their full duties and having to sit spare in mess rooms with no choice in the matter. To be fair the reason for the bad atmosphere is largely due to external factors. This is amplifying work related issues which would normally be no more than minor gripes. I don’t think this is unique to LU - for example my town seems to have descended into some pretty nasty vigilantism this weekend.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 12, 2020 17:29:55 GMT
Boasting about coming in for one rounder and going home again probably isn’t contributing to a positive atmosphere That sort of comment dosen't help quite frankly! I don't see anyone "boasting". It is a fact that with reduced services drivers are working less than they would be normally. On longer lines that can translate into only doing one rounder as that is all the work that is avaialble to cover. Additionally and in order to comply with social distancing rules, some depots are doing their absolute best to minimise the numbers of people loitering in messrooms and book on points and that effort should be acknowledged as good practice. A couple of us have attempted to explain how our lines are working during these strange times and I'm disapointed that this has been interpreted in a negative way.
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Post by goldenarrow on Apr 13, 2020 13:05:28 GMT
Heathrow’s Terminal 4 to close on Friday, Terminal 3 to follow suit by the end of the month leaving just 2 & 5. Bliss! Some photos from Terminal 2 just before I made the questionable decision to race a golf cart in work boots which anyone who’s ever tried running in wellies knows how well that ends... Terminal 2 departures AM peak Terminal 2 PM departures peak Terminal 2 race track (in my mind)
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Post by Tom on Apr 13, 2020 16:56:19 GMT
Heathrow’s Terminal 4 to close on Friday, Terminal 3 to follow suit by the end of the month leaving just 2 & 5. Bliss! Are there any implications for the Piccadilly line service pattern from this, such as closing T4 and sending everything direct to Terminals 123 and 5?
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Post by littlejohn on Apr 13, 2020 17:54:30 GMT
My apologies if this has already been covered upthread. My excuse is that at the start of the lockdown I was stuck in Mexico with intermittent comms and I had to speed-read when we got back to catch up on everything. What, I wonder, will be the long-term implications of the virus? Quite apart from the damage done to the economy and the tourist industry, with so many people working from home how many commuters, or their employers, will have found out that in fact they don’t need to come in so often, if at all? I suspect that TfL will be paying a heavy price for a long time to come.
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Post by Colin on Apr 13, 2020 18:49:11 GMT
What, I wonder, will be the long-term implications of the virus? Quite apart from the damage done to the economy and the tourist industry, with so many people working from home how many commuters, or their employers, will have found out that in fact they don’t need to come in so often, if at all? I suspect that TfL will be paying a heavy price for a long time to come. That's the $64,000 question I suspect we're all wondering the answer to! Times are extremely uncertain at the moment. My personal view is this won't be a flash in the pan situation - I think the world will be paying the price for this for many years to come.
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