Elizabeth Line (CrossRail) opened 24th May 2022

The original plan was to have a normal railway throughout; for the use of normal trains.

There was an issue tonight with a unit transitioning between CBTC and TPWS at Stratford - is this common?

If you count Networker stock as normal trains yes.

Under Chris Greens 1000 Networkers*** a year plans, Crossrail would have been a version of Networkers.

Note I said version, not implying any of the Networker types that were actually built, so no need for anyone to point out assorted reasons why 165 166 365 465 466 would not be suitable. There were a number of other Networker types schemed out none of which made it off the drawing board.

But one idea they did have was the WR diesel 165/166 units would be recycled into Crossrail EMU. The 16x would be stripped of their diesel engines, and modified and used as trailers with EMU motor coaches in between. Really sensible long term strategic planning if you think about it.


*** cars not units

For safety reasons you need level boarding with doors to avoid falls and trips. 

The need for ramps to be used would cause significant delays.


Mod edit [goldenarrow]: Quote removed. Please be selective about the part of a post you wish to quote rather than the whole post verbatim, particularly if you are replying to the previous post in the thread.

Correct. Which is one of the many reasons normal railways don't have platform edge doors.

Once it was decided to build a New Tube instead, all these 'outdated' restrictions no longer applied.

Even, incredibly, to the extent of using a non-standard platform height...

I wonder what Brunel would have made of PEDs
I wonder how Brunel would have reacted to the idea of Hanwell station, now a listed building, being considered for PEDs, there being no record of anyone falling off the platform since it was built.
I wonder if PED requirements override listed building regs.

There is no way that PEDs could be installed at Hanwell.

I used Bond Street station the other day and was pleasantly surprised how cool it felt. Has the ventilation in the station been improved as part of Crossrail work?

ALARP - As low as reasonably possible.

For existing platforms safety authorities realise that compromises may be necessary, but for new stuff that test really raises the bar. You cannot just argue - wide gaps and height differences - which may be extant elsewhere - are acceptable when building a new station/platform. Inherently the ALARP principle should mean that going forward the railways will move inexorably towards better accessibility for all.

Sadly Safety Authorities seem to have been asleep at the wheel here. Ages ago they could/should have defined the standard for all future mainline platforms and then robustly challenged the justification for anything which failed to comply. Just like the original broad gauge v standard gauge arguments - leaving private companies free to make critical decisions on anything which will form part of nationwide infrastructure does not always go well.

Without such guidelines Elizabeth (CrossRail) line neatly fell into the resulting gap, with TFL beancounters insisting on the cheapest/most convenient solution for just the new platforms which they would be creating - whilst basically ignoring the fact that they would forever be inconsistent with existing mainline platforms to the east and west.

Hey ho - perhaps the thought process was that over the ensuing five or six centuries those platforms will be slowly rebuilt to comply with TFL standard whenever they need renovation.

However given the embarassing delays and cost over-runs which were experienced during the construction of the Crossrail core, I somehow doubt anyone will ever find the funds to persuade TFL(or its successors) to progressively close and then rebuild all the core stations to comply with NR standard platform height.

Until last month (May 2023 timetable change) GWR Class 387's used to call at Ealing Broadway all day / every day. I've used these trains too, eg: when going to the Didcot Railway Centre as they offered a through one-seat service and I could split my ticket (Oyster and paper) at Ealing Broadway. Many goods / freights also pass through the platforms used by Elizabeth line trains, and its questionable whether differently height platforms and platform screen doors would foul their loading gauge.

As for the GER section, especially at Stratford the platforms most frequently used by Eliizabeth line trains (5 and 8) are also used by C2C 357's and sometimes also GA 755's (as well as 720s'). But I feel sure that the track configurations prevent goods trains to / from the North London Line from using the tracks alongside platforms 5 and 8.

Originally, and generically, PED requirement comes from tunnel ventilation systems. That is the underlying reason JLE introduced them.

All new constucted tube tunnels must have tunnel ventilation kit fitted . Don't know the date when that came into force. Outcome of the Kings Cross fire?

Venting will not work very well through a tunnel of train size that suddenly opens out to platform size then back to train size after the station .

PEDs or rather the whole structure the fixed screen bit as well as the door bit help assist with a more constant flow when venting and the doors are closed

It is not nor designed to be a seal, pretty obvious as screen is not full height**** nonetheless it greatly assists.

I did read somewhere the whys and wherefores of the Jubilee having PEDs and Northern line extension different but can't think where that was. It might be because Nine Elms is a dead end, like Heathrow T5, so through venting is irrelevant.

Ventilation is the key safety function that requires PEDs and the one that makes them a safety vital item . That they offer (allegedly) enhanced safety as a means to keep humans from falling off the edge is (allegedly) a bonus.

Now, so far that explains PEDs in tunnel stations. What the rules on open air surface stations I have not the faintest idea . One factor might be GoA level; for example unmanned airport transits at Heathrow and Stansted are underground, but Gatwick and Luton open air yet still have PEDs. But GoA level is only my guess no more . AIUI HS2 will have PEDs at its dedicated platforms everywhere but the trains won't be driverless like the airport transits.

As an aside I once got a company award for identifying root cause of a persistent but intermittent fault at Westminster eastbound that was always attributed to the PEDs; my analysis showed PED failure was a symptom not cause; the cause was train borne kit on individual units.

****well not on Jubilee where I was trained on the vent kit operation; come to think of it I've never thought to look at screen height on Eliz. Line.

Alternatives : no idea .

Agreed irrelevant to platform height, it is a digression of a digression.

The Elizabeth line screens/doors/lighting & cable trays are full height.

Network Rail data link lost to signalling equipment around Westbourne Park;

www.nationalrail.co.uk/service-disruptions/london-paddington-20230725/



Out of the hands of TfL and Elizabeth Line