Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 19, 2022 23:26:09 GMT
No, the plan has always* been that the stand time would be removed with the May 2023 timetable change. *Well, at least since the start of through running.
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 5, 2023 18:04:25 GMT
I was thinking about the tunnels on the Elizabeth line...
As far as I can work out most of the tunnels are twin bore / single track (Paddington - Stratford / Custom House, the Thames Tunnel plus Woolwich station and Heathrow Airport).
However the refurbished Connaught tunnel plus approaches is twin track / single bore.
Am I correct?
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Post by ijmad on Jan 5, 2023 21:09:05 GMT
I believe so. You could add to this the Heathrow tunnels. They are twin bore, the section between Heathrow Junction and Heathrow T4 was built using New Austrian Tunnelling Method (NATM) and collapsed on 21st October 1994. It caused significant delays and imperilled the airport's buildings and the Piccadilly Line for some days after as the ground settled.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 5, 2023 22:23:18 GMT
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Post by Chris L on Jan 5, 2023 23:26:43 GMT
I was thinking about the tunnels on the Elizabeth line... As far as I can work out most of the tunnels are twin bore / single track (Paddington - Stratford / Custom House, the Thames Tunnel plus Woolwich station and Heathrow Airport). However the refurbished Connaught tunnel plus approaches is twin track / single bore. Am I correct? Woolwich Station was cut and cover.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 5, 2023 23:43:56 GMT
Woolwich Station was cut and cover. As were Paddington and Canary Wharf stations - these are I believe (at the most basic level) single large boxes with two bored tunnel portals at each end.
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Post by ijmad on Jan 6, 2023 0:58:17 GMT
Not much of a cover in Paddington's case, just some glass
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 6, 2023 14:10:27 GMT
Yes, Woolwich and Paddington were cut and cover, in the case of Paddington the glass canopy over the ticket hall and escalators has become an artwork with the design of every known cloud formation etched (or painted, or whatever) on the glass. Canary Wharf was not cut and cover - at least not in the normal way. Instead the East India north dock was drained and the station plus retail complex and roof garden were built inside the dock. It might me that they had to dig a bigger / deeper hole, on that I am unsure - but I suspect that they did have to do this. Once all building works had been sufficiently completed the dock was allowed to fill with water again and then what amounts to a moat was created around the new construction information source: www.crossrail.co.uk/route/stations/canary-wharf/re: the Connaught tunnel, I read somewhere that they were going to upgrade it via one method and then before they started work further investigations made them realise that it would not have worked - instead what they were going to do would have risked the roof caving in! In the end the solution they adopted included converting it from twin single bore to one twin track bore.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 6, 2023 16:28:40 GMT
Yes, Canary Wharf Crossrail station is built in the West India Docks North Dock (originally the import dock). Track level is lower than the dock floor as only the part of the dock they built in (plus the gap between that and the southern wall of the dock) were drained.
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Post by Chris L on Jan 6, 2023 18:16:38 GMT
re: the Connaught tunnel, I read somewhere that they were going to upgrade it via one method and then before they started work further investigations made them realise that it would not have worked - instead what they were going to do would have risked the roof caving in! In the end the solution they adopted included converting it from twin single bore to one twin track bore. The new tunnel wasn't bored. There was some concern that there might be unexploded bombs in the dock. To avoid risks the dock was drained and the tops of the old tunnels removed. The other parts were excavated to allow a new box tunnel using precast sections to be constructed and the dock refilled. The schedule was very tight as there was a military trade fair at the ExCel and several warships were to be displayed in the dock.
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 7, 2023 18:54:55 GMT
The new tunnel wasn't bored. I knew that and should not have used the word 'bore' when referring to this specific tunnel - I should have worded what I said differently, instead referring to single track tunnels and twin track tunnels.
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Post by morello on Jan 26, 2023 14:32:10 GMT
Hello, first post in the forum even though I’ve been silently reading for years. Does anyone know what the four digit codes on the side destination panels of Elizabeth Line trains mean? Something in this format: 9T72. Apologies if this has been discussed before.
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Post by quex on Jan 26, 2023 15:59:20 GMT
Hello, first post in the forum even though I’ve been silently reading for years. Does anyone know what the four digit codes on the side destination panels of Elizabeth Line trains mean? Something in this format: 9T72. That's the train reporting number or train ID (commonly referred to as the headcode which isn't entirely accurate). It's used to identify pretty much every individual train service on the national rail network for timetabling and signalling purposes.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 26, 2023 16:12:54 GMT
It's the train headcode or train reporting number, which is a national rail thing. The first digit is the class of train, 9 being a high priority passenger service. Most other passenger trains use class 1 (express) or class 2 (ordinary). The letter indicates the destination, the Elizabeth line trains seem use the ones below, but they are only unique on a given route. C Gidea Park (from Liverpool Street high level) N Maidenhead R Reading T Heathrow (any terminal) W Shenfield U Abbey Wood Y Paddington the last two digits are a serial number. In theory at least, in any four hour window any train passing a given station should have a unique headcode. For example there are five 9Y01 services today the 0516 Thameslink service from Blackfriars to Sevenoaks and the Elizabeth line services from Shenfield to Paddington at 0918, 1333, 1754 and 2246. 9T72 could be either the 1247 Abbey Wood to Heathrow Terminal 4 or 1706 Abbey Wood to Hearhrow Terminal 5. For more information see Wikipedia's Train reporting number article.
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Post by Chris L on Jan 26, 2023 21:17:39 GMT
Walking through Liverpool Street today I was disappointed to see vinyl panels added to several signs to add information that should have been there in the first place.
It's what happens when TfL paid off an experience signage team and passed the work to architects who couldn't be bothered to read the signage standards.
Nobody seems to have realised that the Museum of London has closed and black vinyl is needed on the exit signage on the platforms.
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Post by silenthunter on Jan 26, 2023 21:23:36 GMT
Hello, first post in the forum even though I’ve been silently reading for years. Does anyone know what the four digit codes on the side destination panels of Elizabeth Line trains mean? Something in this format: 9T72. That's the train reporting number or train ID (commonly referred to as the headcode which isn't entirely accurate). It's used to identify pretty much every individual train service on the national rail network for timetabling and signalling purposes.
It's far less common to see it on a passenger display though.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 26, 2023 22:17:49 GMT
Walking through Liverpool Street today I was disappointed to see vinyl panels added to several signs to add information that should have been there in the first place. It's what happens when TfL paid off an experience signage team and passed the work to architects who couldn't be bothered to read the signage standards. And also when the signage was specced a long time before opening. For example I believe the signs for Liverpool Street were specified before London Overground took over the West Anglia services.
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Post by morello on Jan 27, 2023 10:28:45 GMT
That's the train reporting number or train ID (commonly referred to as the headcode which isn't entirely accurate). It's used to identify pretty much every individual train service on the national rail network for timetabling and signalling purposes.
It's far less common to see it on a passenger display though. Thank you everybody for your answers regarding the headcode. Talking about unusual situations with the Elizabeth Line and National Rail, I noticed that Elizabeth Line services appear in a very inconsistent way in the National Rail app. Some stations, especially the ones in the core that do not interconnect with an existing mainline station, cannot be searched directly in the app. But it seems to me that all services are trackable both through National Rail and TfL’s API. But for example right now if I search for departures from Tottenham Court Road (TCR) I get a list, if I search for Bond Street (BSZ) I get a random “you seem to be offline” error. Also Abbey Wood departures seem to leave from ABWDXRS two minutes before going to Abbey Wood. This is very inconsistent compared to Overground trains that are all tracked fine. As an IT person, I wonder if it was their goal to make trains properly trackable only on TfL whilst somehow also using the NR infrastructure as well.
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 27, 2023 14:56:40 GMT
It's far less common to see it on a passenger display though. The Southern used to show numbers at the front of its trains - especially the multiple unit trains - this was because many stations were served by trains calling at the same platforms that went to different destinations, sometimes even via different routes (and hence groups of stations). Somewhat like bus routes! Something similar occurred on the LNWR / LMS DC electric network, with trains between Broad Street and Watford Junction or Croxley Green being able to travel via two different routes although the Underground trains that they sometimes shared tracks with did not show headcode numbers (District and Bakerloo lines). For the sake of completeness, short working trains (eg: to Willesden Junction or Harrow & Wealdstone) plus Euston - Watford Junction / Croxley Green, Broad Street - Richmond and the trains on the local Croxley Green & Rickmansworth branches also had route numbers, if only to differentiate them from the other trains!
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Post by Red Dragon on Jan 28, 2023 4:04:13 GMT
That's the train reporting number or train ID (commonly referred to as the headcode which isn't entirely accurate). Who actually calls it a train reporting number though? Certainly on the train planning side, we call them headcodes and so does our software.
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Post by goldenarrow on Feb 1, 2023 19:49:20 GMT
The Stage 5c timetables have now been published. Aside from frequency uplifts across the board, the only new service is 2tph all day from Heathrow T5 to Shenfield (non-stopping Southall, Hanwell and Acton Main Line). All other services retain their West - Abbey Wood and East - Paddington split plus those peak hour workings to/from Liverpool Street mainline station.
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Post by silenthunter on Feb 1, 2023 20:57:02 GMT
Do you have a link to those?
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 1, 2023 22:30:08 GMT
The Stage 5c timetables have now been published. Aside from frequency uplifts across the board, the only new service is 2tph all day from Heathrow T5 to Shenfield (non-stopping Southall, Hanwell and Acton Main Line). All other services retain their West - Abbey Wood and East - Paddington split plus those peak hour workings to/from Liverpool Street mainline station. Through trains to Heathrow from Shenfield!! Its just a shame that I'm not travelling anywhere at present. Nevertheless this is a development that will please people in my neck of the woods. When is this new timetable enabled?
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Post by goldenarrow on Feb 1, 2023 23:14:16 GMT
From Sunday 21st May, already viewable on Realtime Trains and other equivalents
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 2, 2023 12:06:08 GMT
Thanks, three months away.... (today being early February)
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Post by ijmad on Feb 3, 2023 14:02:37 GMT
The Stage 5c timetables have now been published. Aside from frequency uplifts across the board, the only new service is 2tph all day from Heathrow T5 to Shenfield (non-stopping Southall, Hanwell and Acton Main Line). All other services retain their West - Abbey Wood and East - Paddington split plus those peak hour workings to/from Liverpool Street mainline station. I am not surprised at all that there are no direct trains between Reading/Maidenhead and Shenfield, but I am mildly surprised there will no regular direct trains between Canary Wharf and T5. I was honestly expecting the new service to be T4 to Shenfield. Also worth noting I guess, the 2tph uplift from Abbey Wood will terminate at London Paddington.
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Post by Chris L on Feb 3, 2023 14:48:10 GMT
It 2tph from Shenfield to T5 but there are trains from Abbey Wood to T5 now which should continue.
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Post by greatkingrat on Feb 3, 2023 16:30:43 GMT
Its currently 2tph Abbey Wood - T4 and 2tph Abbey Wood - T5
From May it will be 4tph Abbey Wood - T4 and 2tph Shenfield - T5
I guess that by sending all the Abbey Wood trains to T4 you can keep an even 15 min headway, while if they were split between T4 and T5 the headways would be uneven.
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Post by ijmad on Feb 3, 2023 17:20:51 GMT
It 2tph from Shenfield to T5 but there are trains from Abbey Wood to T5 now which should continue. Not according to RTT, all 4tph from Abbey Wood to Heathrow trains will go to T4.
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Post by Chris L on Feb 3, 2023 17:29:32 GMT
Either way it's not difficult to change at Heathrow Central for a free connection to T5.
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