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Post by d7666 on Nov 25, 2022 22:19:05 GMT
Fenchurch St line to Southend/Tilbury. I wonder now there is free capacity at Liverpool Street the idea of only opening Fenchurch Street during Mon - Fri rush hours will resurface, and other times trains will use the Goblin to Forest Gate junction as some do on Saturday. . There might be some free platform capacity at Liverpool Street but IMHO doubt there is route or junction capacity for the off peak LT&S line 6 TPH each way between Stratford and Barking, all of which would have to gain the GE 'Electric' (slow) lines at Forest Gate Jn, and therefore have to slot between Elizabeth line trains between there and Stratford. That junction is flat. Or they'd have to cross over to the GE fast lines, via a single lead, which is even worse. And then there is platform capacity at Stratford. The Saturday C2C operation is only 2 TPH, the others still go to Fenchurch. The idea of reducing Fenchurch dates from quite a long time ago way before traffic and service growth is up to what it is now (covid notwithstanding). There were similar arguments for Cannon Street and Marylebone at one time - the fact it there is no capacity to adsorb their current services elswhere either. I'd be pretty sure that back in the past procrastinated genesis of what became Crossrail as we know it now that at some point bringing some or even all Tilbury line trains into the XR core was considered - even if not in the public domain - and that then might have allowed elimination of Fenchurch. Or. Find several billion ££££s for a complete new set of flyovers at Forest Gate. And more platforms at Stratford.
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Post by revupminster on Nov 26, 2022 9:42:56 GMT
The Southend lines were considered in the original Crossrail plans before Abbey Wood was thought of. Abbey Wood came about because the original Jubilee plans to go there were abandoned even though the step-plate junction tunnels were built at North Greenwich.
This was at a time when no new small diameter tube lines would be built which was disregarded to build Battersea extension of the Northern Line. So there might still be hope for a Bakerloo Line extension.
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Post by stapler on Nov 26, 2022 15:14:45 GMT
The idea of reducing Fenchurch dates from quite a long time ago way before traffic and service growth is up to what it is now .
Stratford platforms 4 and 7 were built for a Fenchurch shuttle but never used so. This was meant for Loughton, Fairlop loop, and Ilford passengers to replace the pre-war through trains from those places to Fenchurch. In fact cross - platform interchange at Mile End turned out to be less inconvenient. Fenchurch St was of course a Blackwall Railway then ECR then GER property, the LTS and LMS being mere tenants. This changed after the cessation of the Blackwall service in 1926. But would their pax now after 75 years really appreciate being diverted via Forest Gate Junction?
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Post by ijmad on Nov 27, 2022 1:41:32 GMT
Forest Gate Junction joins the slow lines, i.e. the ones now dedicated to Elizabeth Line services, which will be 10tph in both directions even off peak. The crossing for the direction towards Barking is flat over the westbound. I doubt there's any space in the timetable to fit many c2c services through those gaps, especially given there are still some freight paths that thread the needle.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 27, 2022 12:27:22 GMT
Fenchurch St line to Southend/Tilbury. I wonder now there is free capacity at Liverpool Street the idea of only opening Fenchurch Street during Mon - Fri rush hours will resurface, and other times trains will use the Goblin to Forest Gate junction as some do on Saturday. . There might be some free platform capacity at Liverpool Street but IMHO doubt there is route or junction capacity for the off peak LT&S line 6 TPH each way between Stratford and Barking, all of which would have to gain the GE 'Electric' (slow) lines at Forest Gate Jn, and therefore have to slot between Elizabeth line trains between there and Stratford. That junction is flat. Or they'd have to cross over to the GE fast lines, via a single lead, which is even worse. And then there is platform capacity at Stratford. The Saturday C2C operation is only 2 TPH, the others still go to Fenchurch. The idea of reducing Fenchurch dates from quite a long time ago way before traffic and service growth is up to what it is now (covid notwithstanding). There were similar arguments for Cannon Street and Marylebone at one time - the fact it there is no capacity to adsorb their current services elswhere either. I'd be pretty sure that back in the past procrastinated genesis of what became Crossrail as we know it now that at some point bringing some or even all Tilbury line trains into the XR core was considered - even if not in the public domain - and that then might have allowed elimination of Fenchurch. Or. Find several billion ££££s for a complete new set of flyovers at Forest Gate. And more platforms at Stratford. Is there any scope in extending the train line from Fenchurch Street Underground to link Liverpool Street. It is about 1 mile away. I always find Fenchurch St location bad. It is not by the main road itself, it does not connect with other Underground lines either. I was surprised that a class 315 was out on Friday 25th, I thought the last one had run
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Post by ijmad on Nov 27, 2022 14:18:11 GMT
Is there any scope in extending the train line from Fenchurch Street Underground to link Liverpool Street. It is about 1 mile away. I always find Fenchurch St location bad. It is not by the main road itself, it does not connect with other Underground lines either. I was surprised that a class 315 was out on Friday 25th, I thought the last one had run Fenchurch Street is on a viaduct and is surrounded by buildings. If you were to extend over the surface, you'd need to buy and dismantle a huge number of properties that are large, expensive, and/or historical in the City of London. Not gonna happen. Network Rail has proposed moving Fenchurch Street to the current site of Tower Gateway to meet demand by 2050. Not mentioned in the report is whether this would create better connections. Though it might coincide with a long term plan by TfL to close Tower Gateway and build new platforms between Shadwell and Bank that are better connected to Tower Hill station, maybe as part of other DLR schemes to extend somewhere beyond Bank. Easier transfer might be possible between New Fenchurch Street at Minories and this new integrated Tower Hill station. Another possibility would be to connect the line to a future Crossrail tunnel across London linking with another terminal, with tunnel portals in East London, but this would cost tens of billions of pounds and would likely need 20 years from conception to opening. And frankly there are other routes that have far greater needs, like the existing Crossrail 2 proposal, or the Euston-Waterloo corridor occasionally mooted for Crossrail 3.
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 27, 2022 19:23:30 GMT
A royal commission in 1905 proposed a type of Crossrail service by joining Fenchurch Street and Waterloo, as well as tram tunnels and more. Of course it never happened. More progress at Ilford: twitter.com /citytransportin/status/1596291216223657984
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Post by Chris L on Nov 28, 2022 22:34:47 GMT
A toilet update.
In addition to the toilets installed by the project on the northbound Thameslink platform at Farringdon, new toilets have now opened at level -3 above the Elizabeth line platforms (level -4) at Canary Wharf. These have been provided by Canary Wharf Limited in a new retail area.
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Post by jukes on Dec 6, 2022 16:36:23 GMT
In two separate FOIs TfL have now confirmed the following services from Shenfield in the May 2023 timetable:
a) Trains from Shenfield will NOT run to Reading. b) Trains from Shenfield WILL run to Heathrow.
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Post by jimbo on Dec 6, 2022 18:46:48 GMT
Since the E.Line forms a high-speed version of the Central Line between Stratford and Ealing, has there been any noticeable drop in usage of the older line?
The Central Line were hoping to reduce Ealing services in consequence, allowing a boost to central area peak services with the same fleet size.
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 6, 2022 19:42:15 GMT
In two separate FOIs TfL have now confirmed the following services from Shenfield in the May 2023 timetable: a) Trains from Shenfield will NOT run to Reading. b) Trains from Shenfield WILL run to Heathrow. There's probably not much demand for that. Anyone going to Reading from East London is not going to sit on the Elizabeth Line the whole way; they'll get off at Paddington and board GWR instead.
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Post by roman80 on Dec 6, 2022 21:37:35 GMT
Does the Abbey Wood frequency improve from 10tph in the May timetable? Ran 12tph when it was the only stage open but now 10tph.
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 6, 2022 22:51:32 GMT
In two separate FOIs TfL have now confirmed the following services from Shenfield in the May 2023 timetable: a) Trains from Shenfield will NOT run to Reading. b) Trains from Shenfield WILL run to Heathrow. Thats good news - but which terminals at Heathrow? All trains go to Terminal 1/2/3 and then Shenfield to T4 and Abbey Wood to T5? Other way around? Or possibly a mix of some from each eastern route to both T4 and T5? Its likely that few people from Shenfield route stations will be upset that only trains from Abbey Wood will be going to Maidenhead / Reading. For westbound services its will be still easier to interchange by waiting on the same platform, the situation is slightly different eastbound as the interchange at Ealing Broadway (with the Central line) always was 'same level' and 'very convenient'. I would not be surprised if some passengers continue to change at Paddington as the trains from there are mostly much faster than Elizabeth line trains.
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 6, 2022 22:55:53 GMT
It's actually just Terminal 2/3 now; Terminal 1 has closed permanently.
But if they did that, you'd have to make the line diagram more complex.
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Post by ijmad on Dec 7, 2022 1:08:56 GMT
In two separate FOIs TfL have now confirmed the following services from Shenfield in the May 2023 timetable: a) Trains from Shenfield will NOT run to Reading. b) Trains from Shenfield WILL run to Heathrow. Got a link to the FOIs?
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Post by goldenarrow on Dec 7, 2022 8:05:58 GMT
Does the Abbey Wood frequency improve from 10tph in the May timetable? Ran 12tph when it was the only stage open but now 10tph. Yes it will. Current 8tph off-peak/10tph peak service between Canary Wharf and Abbey Wood will increase to 10tph off-peak/12tph peak.
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Post by Chris W on Dec 7, 2022 21:04:03 GMT
En-route home from London this evening, there were two Cl.315s out and about towards the east...
One (could have been 315 837 London end, whilst travelling east), very, very packed out in the evening rush hour around 17:45... with an empty Cl.315 (lights off) en-route through Stratford heading towards Liverpool Street.
Get'em while you can
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Post by ijmad on Dec 8, 2022 0:14:58 GMT
En-route home from London this evening, there were two Cl.315s out and about towards the east... I thought they were supposed to be gone on Nov 26th? Did that get pushed back?
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Post by Chris M on Dec 8, 2022 1:00:52 GMT
No, that was always just a special event. The last train in service is expected to be this Friday (9 December) - it's not impossible they'll be used after that but understanding is that it will be very unlikely.
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Post by ijmad on Dec 8, 2022 1:46:08 GMT
Ah ha, thanks for the correction.
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Post by jimbo on Dec 14, 2022 23:57:59 GMT
I've a feeling Hanover Square was a work site for Victoria Line construction at Oxford Circus. Were any remains uncovered as part of Crossrail works there? Is there any possibility this could form the basis for a future interchange between the stations, an alternative entrance for Oxford Circus station, etc. when tube lines capacity permits?
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Post by trt on Dec 15, 2022 10:30:02 GMT
From MyLondon News
To change from Elizabeth line to Victoria line at Bond Street/Oxford Circus:
1. At Bond Street, follow the signs to the Hanover Square exit on the platforms, this will take you to the front of trains towards Abbey Wood/Shenfield and the back of trains towards Heathrow/Reading.
2. Go up the long escalator and exit the station through the ticket barriers
3. Go straight ahead across Hanover Square to the end of Princes Street
4. At the end of Princes Street, turn left onto Regent Street and you will see the entrance to Oxford Circus Tube station in front of you
5. Go down the steps into the station and through the ticket barriers
6. Follow signs to the right Victoria line platform - northbound to Walthamstow Central or southbound to Brixton.
Oxford Circus is signposted on the wayfinding signs on the Elizabeth line platforms at Bond Street
To change from Victoria line to Elizabeth line at Bond Street/Oxford Circus:
1. At Oxford Circus, head towards the way out, go through the ticket barriers
2. Head for Exit 3 (Regent Street South). When you reach street level outside the Microsoft store, turn around and head along Regent Street. If this is closed, head to exits 1, 2, 4 or 5 and look for the Microsoft store when you arrive at street level, cross over to that side and walk along Regent Street.
3. Take the first right along Regent Street into Princes Street, there's a bus stop on the corner
4. At the end of Princes Street, head across Hanover Square right in front of you.
5. You'll find the Hanover Square entrance to Bond Street Elizabeth line station on the left hand side - enter and go through the ticket barriers
6. Go to the bottom of the long escalators and turn left for trains to Reading/Heathrow and right for trains to Abbey Wood/Shenfield.
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 15, 2022 15:37:26 GMT
From MyLondon News To change from Elizabeth line to Victoria line at Bond Street/Oxford Circus: (snip) I do wonder why there is not a long interchange passageway here, similar to Liverpool St / Moorgate and Farringdon / Barbican
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Post by trt on Dec 15, 2022 16:32:37 GMT
From MyLondon News To change from Elizabeth line to Victoria line at Bond Street/Oxford Circus: (snip) I do wonder why there is not a long interchange passageway here, similar to Liverpool St / Moorgate and Farringdon / Barbican Under the pedestrianised Princes St to Regent Street, and into the southern side of the ticket hall... I can't see anything that's blocking that route, but it did need a lot of concrete foam pumping in to stabilise the ground in that area. Maybe it was just mission creep? But an long corridor would make the interchange more obvious and useful.
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Post by Chris L on Dec 15, 2022 17:40:35 GMT
From MyLondon News To change from Elizabeth line to Victoria line at Bond Street/Oxford Circus: (snip) I do wonder why there is not a long interchange passageway here, similar to Liverpool St / Moorgate and Farringdon / Barbican Too much congestion already at Oxford Circus.
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Post by Chris M on Dec 15, 2022 19:40:43 GMT
Too much congestion already at Oxford Circus. Oxford Circus struggles to cope with the present volume of passengers, especially in the ticket hall. The site is very constrained and there is no way to expand without very major engineering works, and doing two major railway engineering projects in close proximity at the same time would have been a bad idea even if that was budget (which there wasn't). Additionally, it was presumably felt that doing anything before knowing what the effects of Crossrail were wouldn't be the best use of funds.
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Post by jimbo on Dec 16, 2022 20:11:18 GMT
I've a feeling Hanover Square was a work site for Victoria Line construction at Oxford Circus. Were any remains uncovered as part of Crossrail works there? Is there any possibility this could form the basis for a future interchange between the stations, an alternative entrance for Oxford Circus station, etc. when tube lines capacity permits? Does anyone recall if Hanover Square provided sub-surface access to the Oxford Circus Victoria Line construction site, or was it just for materials storage or temporary office huts? I was thinking that sub-surface access might be reopened at low cost.
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Post by Chris M on Dec 17, 2022 0:47:43 GMT
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Post by ijmad on Dec 17, 2022 18:50:32 GMT
Not to mention that all four buildings around Oxford Circus are Grade II Listed, Crossrail never have been able to demolish or alter them, and any digging underneath would have had to be very deep, very slow, and probably cost a huge amount.
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Post by jimbo on Dec 19, 2022 23:18:14 GMT
There was an expectation earlier that the stand time awaiting entry to the central tunnel could be adjusted with the winter National Rail timetable. Did this happen? Not mentioned here yet.
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