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Post by spsmiler on Jan 12, 2019 16:13:14 GMT
I think I'm going to start reffering to this as Crossrailgate. I'd assume Sir Morgan would not have the legal grounds to publish the original documents providing he has the un meddled one? Hmm, just what we need... something to take our minds away from other matters of national importance (related to Europe).
As for Bond Street, Canary Wharf DLR and Pimlico Victoria Line come to mind. I suspect the biggest complainers about this would be stores like Selfridges, as they would be missing out on the extra footfall.
ps: edit to add: on the topic of complaining about how things affect retailers, I'd like to add that I was 'most displeased' that a retailer which had just one branch in London (Beard Papa) was forced out of its Oxford Street branch. They sold choux pastry profiteroles (and more) which had a wide range of cream filling flavours. The building where they were located was knocked down for an entrance / exit for Tottenham Court Road station.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 12, 2019 21:02:23 GMT
I can't see the NCE article. I did however watch nearly 5 hours of webcast from City Hall which I assume NCE have cribbed for their article. And no point was it said that Bond Street construction would be later than this Summer. As I believe I have posted earlier some stations have achieved the milestone of having the civil construction contractor demobilised - Farringdon, Woolwich and Custom House. Others will follow over the next few months with Bond Street likely to be last although Paddington is apparently troublesome. Whitechapel was not mentioned - unsurprisingly. Mark Wild was very clear that the next step at these stations was to get the fit out finished and then to get the specialised teams of testers in. Work is going on now to schedule all the testing programme and associated resource given some of it is scarce and highly specialised (and likely expensive). He is clearly keen to get construction teams off site as fast as possible and then to get stations into a state for handover. That also has the benefit of ensuring trains can actually run in the tunnels for testing purposes. Mark Wild was clearly walking a tightrope in front of the politicians. He was trying to be realistic but not overly pessimistic or optimistic. My sense was that he was being a tad more pessimistic but that's part of the wider "under promise, over deliver" mantra that I am sure is the agreed PR stance at the moment. Even dragging the Evening Standard round an "unfinished" Bond Street is part of that agenda - "oh look how far behind it all is" and then shazam 6 or 7 months later "ooh look how shiny and finished it looks". Call me an old cynic.  He also steadfastly refused to give any sort of opening date even though I am sure he has multiple possible programme outcomes to hand with varying levels of probability. It's clear to me that he probably has a preferred scenario but will not commit at all because of the signalling / train issues. Stations will get sorted out - they always are. |
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Post by dmncf on Jan 13, 2019 18:16:18 GMT
As I believe I have posted earlier some stations have achieved the milestone of having the civil construction contractor demobilised - Farringdon, Woolwich and Custom House. Others will follow over the next few A lot was said at the GLA Transport Committee about the lack of dynamic testing opportunities for train-borne systems on the Bombardier Class 345 trains. While construction work continues in Crossrail's core tunnel stations, is train testing able to take place on the southeast branch? |
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Jan 13, 2019 19:01:32 GMT
I can't see the NCE article... Odd. I have copied the article below: I hope the quote isn't too long for the mods.
*No, it's fine. Carry on Andrew.  |
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 13, 2019 20:17:14 GMT
As I believe I have posted earlier some stations have achieved the milestone of having the civil construction contractor demobilised - Farringdon, Woolwich and Custom House. Others will follow over the next few A lot was said at the GLA Transport Committee about the lack of dynamic testing opportunities for train-borne systems on the Bombardier Class 345 trains. While construction work continues in Crossrail's core tunnel stations, is train testing able to take place on the southeast branch? Dynamic testing is now underway. Trains will be running in tunnels 4 days per week for the next 8 weeks (or longer if required). |
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 13, 2019 22:05:40 GMT
Hmm, this branch is not wholly underground! If I went to an open air location on the Abbey Wood branch that is in a public place (not a station etc) would it be even remotely possible that one of these test trains would be seen?
My thoughts are that the CBTC signalling will need testing - especially as this is effectively a brand new railway, even if in places historic infrastructure is being reused.
Simon
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Post by silenthunter on Jan 13, 2019 22:21:48 GMT
Hmm, this branch is not wholly underground! If I went to an open air location on the Abbey Wood branch that is in a public place (not a station etc) would it be even remotely possible that one of these test trains would be seen? My thoughts are that the CBTC signalling will need testing - especially as this is effectively a brand new railway, even if in places historic infrastructure is being reused. Simon
Yes. You could also go to the Olympic Park in Stratford as the entrance to the core is near.
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Post by Chris M on Jan 13, 2019 22:28:48 GMT
If the testing is on the South Eastern branch then the Prince Regent footbridge and the footbridge near the former Silvertown station are both good vantage points. The latter is certainly public, the former is effectively public but may technically be ExCeL's private property.
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Post by malcolmffc on Jan 14, 2019 13:17:39 GMT
I can't see the NCE article... Odd. I have copied the article below: I hope the quote isn't too long for the mods.
*No, it's fine. Carry on Andrew. How on earth were the payment milestones scheduled so that the contractors could be paid nearly in full without finishing all the work?! |
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Post by 35b on Jan 14, 2019 13:35:02 GMT
Odd. I have copied the article below: I hope the quote isn't too long for the mods.
*No, it's fine. Carry on Andrew. How on earth were the payment milestones scheduled so that the contractors could be paid nearly in full without finishing all the work?! Or should we be looking at how completion of milestones was assessed to allow payment? |
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Post by revupminster on Jan 14, 2019 18:57:08 GMT
 At least the signalman are using Crossrail track. A train I follow 5C91 empty Reading-Paddington,1C91 Paddington-Paignton was held at signal 122 for a long while until a path was available into it's usual departure platform 8. This train is one of the last 13 HST's and start and finishes at Laira (Plymouth), one of only two depots that handle HST's the other at Bristol. Cannot get the image to display without clicking on it. Tried half a dozen times. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 14, 2019 22:28:32 GMT
If the testing is on the South Eastern branch then the Prince Regent footbridge and the footbridge near the former Silvertown station are both good vantage points. The latter is certainly public, the former is effectively public but may technically be ExCeL's private property. Thats the area I was thinking of!
I just have to hope that I'm there on the right day of the week and at the right time of day. Testing of am intensive rush hour service would be great too!
Silenthunter, thanks, although that is not on the south-east branch so maybe is less likely to be testing trains at the moment.
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Post by revupminster on Jan 14, 2019 23:07:45 GMT
wrong post.
Just to say thanks but I am not a reverend just my initials REV and where I lived.
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Post by Chris L on Jan 15, 2019 5:53:20 GMT
If the testing is on the South Eastern branch then the Prince Regent footbridge and the footbridge near the former Silvertown station are both good vantage points. The latter is certainly public, the former is effectively public but may technically be ExCeL's private property. As I said in my earlier post, the dynamic testing is in the tunnels. Station systems are being tested. At least 8 weeks of testing are expected. In any case the Silvertown bridge is currently closed. |
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Post by orienteer on Jan 19, 2019 22:15:19 GMT
That's a place in East Leeds. That's Crossgates! I was in digs there when at Leeds Uni - over 50 years ago! |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 28, 2019 17:31:05 GMT
KPMG have published their report into Crossrailgate. Some critical findings outlined: "We have concluded a change is required either because Crossrail’s needs have changed given the project is no longer in a “business as usual” state." "We found evidence / examples that an important control or process was missing or was not designed and / or operating in line with good practice." "Trust between Sponsors and the CRL Board has been undermined by reporting that did not sufficiently surface the probable impact of or the magnitude of the emerging performance issues soon enough." "The CRL Board continued, until relatively recently, to pursue a pre-planned demobilisation of central resources around a December 2018 Stage 3 opening." "There was a much reduced level of internal audit coverage in 2017_18 and 2018_19, with insufficient coverage in particular in the critical areas of finance and commercial controls." "There was insufficient clarity around reporting of whole programme performance. To understand whole programme performance requires an assessment of a number of separate critical paths and their inter-dependencies." "Programme assurance has also not consistently covered all elements of the programme, the integration of the programme or operational readiness." "CRL performance monitoring and reporting has not led to timely / adequate advance notice being provided of the need to materially change the Stage 3 opening date and the resulting significant cost impact." "Cost scenarios prepared by CRL at Sponsors’ request critically did not take account of the potential impact of any material irrecoverable delays in infrastructure works which had a much more substantial cost run rate than the issues addressed in the scenarios."
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Post by superteacher on Feb 2, 2019 0:13:03 GMT
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Post by Chris L on Feb 2, 2019 4:32:31 GMT
The quote was about the whole route. Sections may still open. It is essential to get Abbey Wood/Paddington running first. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Feb 2, 2019 11:40:25 GMT
I'm sorry, couldn't help it.  |
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Post by superteacher on Feb 3, 2019 11:10:41 GMT
The quote was about the whole route. Sections may still open. It is essential to get Abbey Wood/Paddington running first. Well according to somebody I know, the chance of even that happening this year is pretty much non-existent. |
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Post by silenthunter on Feb 3, 2019 11:35:52 GMT
The central core is the 'key bit'. The rest pales in comparison.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 3, 2019 23:14:19 GMT
The central core is the 'key bit'. The rest pales in comparison. In terms of showing off "big new bits of railway" then yes. The politicians will fawn all over that bit and passengers will go "ooh" for the first few times they travel on it. In terms of money in TfL's coffers then Paddington to Reading is vastly more important because TfL gain a significant share of the revenue on Padd - Reading flows. Fares here are vastly higher than on TfL or on South Eastern (the only other bit where TfL will extract revenue from a TOC). Also fares on GWR (outside the zones) will keep rising so even more important when there's a fares freeze in London. Being able to run into Heathrow at a higher frequency than now will also be an aid to TfL's revenues. (Fares from Padd - West Drayton are on the TfL farescale so have been frozen with TfL no doubt paying GWR compensation). A lot of the revenue on the core section is simply transfers from other TfL (tube) services in the short term. The Abbey Wood branch will extract some South Eastern revenue but will also hit DLR and Jubilee Line revenues in the short term. TfL have remarked about internal revenue transfers several times in public scrutiny sessions. Once the railway is all joined together and running at the planned high frequencies then further trip and revenue generation may kick up but that is highly dependent on the state of the economy. If it tanks due to a certain looming event then, IMO, all bets are off as to what money Crossrail will bring in. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 4, 2019 8:11:04 GMT
In terms of revenue, the takeover of the GWML services may be the most significant. But that adds no extra capacity. Only the core (including the Abbey Wood line) does that.
Passengers on the GEML and GWML may have noticed their trains are now a different colour, and the more observant may even have noticed they are a different shape, but the services are no faster or more frequent, nor (at least on the GEML) are the trains any longer.
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Post by t697 on Feb 4, 2019 9:43:40 GMT
In terms of revenue, the takeover of the GWML services may be the most significant. But that adds no extra capacity. Only the core (including the Abbey Wood line) does that. Passengers on the GEML and GWML may have noticed their trains are now a different colour, and the more observant may even have noticed they are a different shape, but the services are no faster or more frequent, nor (at least on the GEML) are the trains any longer. You can probably squeeze more passengers in on a 345 on GEML than on the old 315s with their traditional seating. More standing of course on 345s. |
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Post by flippyff on Feb 4, 2019 19:29:56 GMT
Crossrail dynamic testing:
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Post by Chris L on Feb 4, 2019 19:34:40 GMT
The central core is the 'key bit'. The rest pales in comparison. In terms of showing off "big new bits of railway" then yes. The politicians will fawn all over that bit and passengers will go "ooh" for the first few times they travel on it. In terms of money in TfL's coffers then Paddington to Reading is vastly more important because TfL gain a significant share of the revenue on Padd - Reading flows. Fares here are vastly higher than on TfL or on South Eastern (the only other bit where TfL will extract revenue from a TOC). Also fares on GWR (outside the zones) will keep rising so even more important when there's a fares freeze in London. Being able to run into Heathrow at a higher frequency than now will also be an aid to TfL's revenues. (Fares from Padd - West Drayton are on the TfL farescale so have been frozen with TfL no doubt paying GWR compensation). A lot of the revenue on the core section is simply transfers from other TfL (tube) services in the short term. The Abbey Wood branch will extract some South Eastern revenue but will also hit DLR and Jubilee Line revenues in the short term. TfL have remarked about internal revenue transfers several times in public scrutiny sessions. Once the railway is all joined together and running at the planned high frequencies then further trip and revenue generation may kick up but that is highly dependent on the state of the economy. If it tanks due to a certain looming event then, IMO, all bets are off as to what money Crossrail will bring in. The core section is relatively self contained. It can run without affecting other services. Dynamic testing is in progress. The stations are also more complex. There is so much kit on the stations which has to work with the older parts of the stations. The number of lifts and escalators is amazing. Incline lifts at Liverpool Street look great. The core also frees up space on other lines. This will really be needed at North Greenwich. Massive housing development in progress. |
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Post by snoggle on Feb 4, 2019 20:33:59 GMT
The core section is relatively self contained. It can run without affecting other services. Dynamic testing is in progress. The stations are also more complex. There is so much kit on the stations which has to work with the older parts of the stations. The number of lifts and escalators is amazing. Incline lifts at Liverpool Street look great. The core also frees up space on other lines. This will really be needed at North Greenwich. Massive housing development in progress. Sorry to sound a bit arrogant but I know all that. I am not convinced that people in Thamesmead, Woolwich, Charlton or Eltham will desert North Greenwich because it is so much cheaper to travel from there. I don't see people forking out for an extra two fare zones just to save a few minutes by using Crossrail. I think North Greenwich is a looming disaster area for the tube (and bus) network as is Canada Water. I think both stations will become completely inoperable in the peaks within 10-15 years and there is no strategy to deal with any of this. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Feb 4, 2019 21:04:46 GMT
From what I can tell the video shows a train running wrong line Eastbound on the Westbound track from Farringdon to Liverpool Street. I hope that floating track slab under the Barbican is doing its job.
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Post by Chris M on Feb 4, 2019 21:38:25 GMT
I think North Greenwich is a looming disaster area for the tube (and bus) network as is Canada Water. I think both stations will become completely inoperable in the peaks within 10-15 years and there is no strategy to deal with any of this. I think the way to sort out Canada Water is to sort out Southern/South Eastern in terms of reliability, capacity and fare equality. As for North Greenwich, my guess is that the strategy for the bus network around there is "Silvertown Tunnel" although in reality this is more likely to make things worse rather than better. What is really needed is something like Greenwich Waterfront Transit - segregated buses and/or a tram with a bridge or tunnel for these (plus cyclists and pedestrians) to Canary Wharf. A fixed link from Gallions Reach to Thamesmead would also help distribute the traffic. All this though would cost rather significantly more than anyone with any money is willing to spend currently. |
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Post by jetblast787 on Feb 4, 2019 22:28:20 GMT
The core section is relatively self contained. It can run without affecting other services. Dynamic testing is in progress. The stations are also more complex. There is so much kit on the stations which has to work with the older parts of the stations. The number of lifts and escalators is amazing. Incline lifts at Liverpool Street look great. The core also frees up space on other lines. This will really be needed at North Greenwich. Massive housing development in progress. Sorry to sound a bit arrogant but I know all that. I am not convinced that people in Thamesmead, Woolwich, Charlton or Eltham will desert North Greenwich because it is so much cheaper to travel from there. I don't see people forking out for an extra two fare zones just to save a few minutes by using Crossrail. I think North Greenwich is a looming disaster area for the tube (and bus) network as is Canada Water. I think both stations will become completely inoperable in the peaks within 10-15 years and there is no strategy to deal with any of this. The issue with Canada Water is the sheer numbers changing between the Jubilee and ELL. The cancellation of JNAT hasn't also helped matters down on the Jubilee platforms. |
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He also steadfastly refused to give any sort of opening date even though I am sure he has multiple possible programme outcomes to hand with varying levels of probability. It's clear to me that he probably has a preferred scenario but will not commit at all because of the signalling / train issues. Stations will get sorted out - they always are.
