Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 4, 2019 23:14:35 GMT
JNAT = Jublee and Northern line Additional Trains.
In the medium term, the Canary Wharf-Rotherhithe bridge might help Canada Water a bit, particularly on sunny days. Longer term the Bakerloo line extension providing a New Cross-Lewisham route will help a bit although neither will be significant enough on their own to make a big dent and the latter may bring a similar amount of new traffic to the mix.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 4, 2019 23:23:18 GMT
JNAT = Jublee and Northern line Additional Trains. Thank you for clearing that one up Chris. Once again, can we all be mindful of explaining abbreviations at source when posting as it helps make the forum more accessible for those of us perhaps not as knowledgable about industry speak as others. Many thanks.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 4, 2019 23:45:27 GMT
JNAT = Jublee and Northern line Additional Trains. Thank you for clearing that one up Chris. Once again, can we all be mindful of explaining abbreviations at source when posting as it helps make the forum more accessible for those of us perhaps not as knowledgable about industry speak as others. Many thanks. We have our own list of commonly used abbreviations, whilst we would generally prefer members to expand their abbreviations (at least upon first use) we'd encourage all members to be acquainted with our list. If any member would like a term adding to the list, then they should send a PM to any member of Forum Staff so they can make the changes.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 4, 2019 23:53:58 GMT
I think North Greenwich is a looming disaster area for the tube (and bus) network as is Canada Water. I think both stations will become completely inoperable in the peaks within 10-15 years and there is no strategy to deal with any of this. I think the way to sort out Canada Water is to sort out Southern/South Eastern in terms of reliability, capacity and fare equality. As for North Greenwich, my guess is that the strategy for the bus network around there is "Silvertown Tunnel" although in reality this is more likely to make things worse rather than better. What is really needed is something like Greenwich Waterfront Transit - segregated buses and/or a tram with a bridge or tunnel for these (plus cyclists and pedestrians) to Canary Wharf. A fixed link from Gallions Reach to Thamesmead would also help distribute the traffic. All this though would cost rather significantly more than anyone with any money is willing to spend currently. My observation about Canada Water was more in the context of the planned huge intensification of housing in the area. Clearly that may cause some extra local trips that can be handled on the bus network but the bus station is already too small. The peak time platform level crowding is well known. I just don't see how you add in an awful lot more originating journeys that will use both Jubilee Line and Overground and somehow cope with it. I don't share your confidence about South Eastern ever being sorted out because the DfT are not interested in "fixing" inner suburban rail services. Local misinformed political pressure to preserve peak time departures and service patterns in aspic don't help either. The emphasis is always on longer distance services. I think when Crossrail opens at Abbey Wood people will see a stark difference - a train every 5 minutes compared to 6 SE trains per hour if you're lucky. People in Woolwich already know this by virtue of the DLR - look how overloaded those services are. I recognise we're veering a tad off topic so I'll stop now.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 5, 2019 0:01:49 GMT
I agree that fixing South Eastern is not something that is presently on the cards, my comment was more that this is what needs to be done than this is what will be done.
There is probably a good discussion to be had about Canada Water and North Greenwich capacity issues, so maybe a passing moderator will be kind enough to split these posts off into a new thread.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 5, 2019 22:58:26 GMT
Someone has perhaps got a little too enthusiastic in predicting when more stations will go "step free" in the latest Customer Service and Ops performance Cttee Papers. In the main report (page 78 of the pdf) there is reference to Moorgate (Elizabeth Line) going step free between Jan and March 2020. There is also a mention of Ealing Broadway and Whitechapel going step free at the same time.
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Post by Chris L on Feb 9, 2019 10:16:06 GMT
Saw a train running in the tunnels this week.
Stopped aligned with the platform edge doors and then pulled away very quickly.
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Post by alpinejohn on Feb 9, 2019 11:45:44 GMT
That sounds promising assuming they have already checked that they can open and close both sets of doors if they wanted to during that stop.
Perhaps I am getting ahead of things and this was just a preliminary run to check the programmed stopping marks with loads more testing ahead.
In the meantime are you allowed to tell us which station and direction (east/west platform) was being used for this test?
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Post by snoggle on Feb 9, 2019 11:55:11 GMT
That sounds promising assuming they have already checked that they can open and close both sets of doors if they wanted to during that stop. Perhaps I am getting ahead of things and this was just a preliminary run to check the programmed stopping marks with loads more testing ahead. In the meantime are you allowed to tell us which station and direction (east/west platform) was being used for this test? Crossrail themselves have put a mini clip of a test train going through the tunnels and stopping at platforms. The train is clearly running wrong direction but that's as much a part of the test regime as running in the normal direction. Sorry for the repeat of this clip - it is in an early posting from another forum member. I suspect that we are not at the point of being able to open platform edge doors because the systems are not fully commissioned and won't be until all construction activity has ceased in the stations. Otherwise you just get dust and muck being blown round the place which may damage partly installed / not yet commissioned station systems.
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Post by goldenarrow on Feb 9, 2019 12:04:49 GMT
I agree with snoggle’s point, if you look closely at the interface when the train is at a stand at Farringdon, it cycles through to an ATO prompt way too fast compared to what the finished product would do. I don’t know how well insulated the cab of a 345 is but given the precedent of other modern EMU’s, it is still possible to hear the doors release/chime something that should be more noticeable with platform screen doors not to mention the the pilot light coming on just 1-2 seconds after we hear the button being pushed.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 15, 2019 13:43:43 GMT
Oh dear. The "who knew what when" debacle runs on. Interesting that Summer 2019 was the assumed date for the core with a big bang through service from December with both east and west linked in in one go. Seems there is an Evening Standard article too but I've not looked at that.
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Antje
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Post by Antje on Feb 24, 2019 17:59:57 GMT
The Evening Standard had reported that Mark Wild had little to no hope that Crossrail will open this year. Unfortunately, I will not make it to the opening, as I may leave the UK by the end of next month.
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Post by superteacher on Feb 24, 2019 18:53:19 GMT
Don’t think it’s any great secret that the core is unlikely to open in 2019.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 20, 2019 12:41:37 GMT
The new TfL Budget for next year has three interesting assumptions with regard to Crossrail. content.tfl.gov.uk/board-20190327-agenda-pt1.pdf- confirmation of a possible opening schedule in April 2019. - TfL are assuming that the core tunnel services will commence in the final quarter of 2019/20 (therefore Jan to March 2020). - TfL are assuming £28m worth of extra revenue from the take up of Paddington to Reading services in December 2019.
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Post by goldenarrow on Mar 21, 2019 9:13:04 GMT
Slight hint as to what is going to be announced in April:
“Direct operating costs will increase by £143 million, owing to financing costs along with costs to the Central section, which will be non-fare generating in 2019/20”
The end of the first business quarter (31st of March 2020) is only a fortnight or so away from the May timetable change which is where I’m putting my money on for the core.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 21, 2019 11:01:47 GMT
Slight hint as to what is going to be announced in April: “Direct operating costs will increase by £143 million, owing to financing costs along with costs to the Central section, which will be non-fare generating in 2019/20” The end of the first business quarter (31st of March 2020) is only a fortnight or so away from the May timetable change which is where I’m putting my money on for the core. The only small spanner in that analysis is a political one. Purdah for the 2020 Mayoral Election kicks in from a point in March 2020. That prevents the Mayor and TfL from having grand ceremonial openings which might be deemed to affect the election process. The same issue affected the public opening of the East London line extension to Dalston Junction. Therefore I'd not be shocked to see a ceremonial opening and perhaps a limited "preview" service happen in March 2020 before purdah. That gives the Mayor his photo op and allows MTR Crossrail and LU a soft start to operations. That would also align with a view that there is no real revenue upside in the 2019/20 financial year - 2-3 weeks of a preview service is not going to put a lot of money in TfL's coffers.
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Mar 29, 2019 0:19:50 GMT
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Post by Chris L on Mar 30, 2019 7:43:48 GMT
The ES article is out of date. Trains are being tested in the tunnels but there are construction windows where running is paused to allow some station works to progress. The platform edge screens mean that fitting out of stations is progressing and systems & electrical testing is happening. Permanent power supplies are being used with temporary power removed. Lifts and escalators are being commissioned.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 3, 2019 11:04:59 GMT
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Apr 5, 2019 23:26:14 GMT
I heard last weekend that the latest grand plan is to open on 10th December then close again at the close of traffic on 24th December for 10 days. Rail replacmeent buses will be provided on the outlying sections and i understand tender have been sent out.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 6, 2019 10:24:18 GMT
Given that opening period would correspond to the peak Christmas shopping period, when the busiest traffic day of the year almost always happens, it certainly makes sense to capture revenue from that period if they can.
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Post by melikepie on Apr 6, 2019 10:40:39 GMT
Can someone change the title of this topic? With no certain opening time with some reports predicting the 2020s maybe it should be shortened to something like "Crossrail opening delayed".
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Post by superteacher on Apr 6, 2019 11:22:07 GMT
Can someone change the title of this topic? With no certain opening time with some reports predicting the 2020s maybe it should be shortened to something like "Crossrail opening delayed". Duly done.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 7, 2019 11:07:49 GMT
I heard last weekend that the latest grand plan is to open on 10th December then close again at the close of traffic on 24th December for 10 days. Rail replacmeent buses will be provided on the outlying sections and i understand tender have been sent out. Eh? Excuse me being a bit thick but what precisely opens on 10/12/19 and what reopens 10 days later? I don't understand why outlying sections would have to be replaced by buses unless there is some crazy plan to try to integrate both Shenfield and Reading/Heathrow services into the core all at once. Even with the split service structure that is planned that is an enomously high risk strategy which I can't believe Howard Smith of TfL would support. His approach has always been measured with time to stabilise operations before increasing the service level / operational complexity. Let's be honest - at some point when the core opens there will be problems with platform edge doors or train doors or a train failure or the signalling will fall over. You'd want the first phase of operation to be relatively simple so controllers and staff have the chance to learn without massive train service problems piling up in consequence. With the core opening there is only the Abbey Wood service that could be described as an "outer section" and I don't see why you'd put a RRS on after only running for 10 days when there are plenty of alternative routes to all of the stops on that line. Sorry to be a bit demanding with my questions but any more insight would be appreciated.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 7, 2019 11:43:15 GMT
With the core opening there is only the Abbey Wood service that could be described as an "outer section" and I don't see why you'd put a RRS on after only running for 10 days when there are plenty of alternative routes to all of the stops on that line. . Is there a shutdown planned for any of one of those existing alternatives over the Christmas period? (I am intrigued by a rail replacement bus between Woolwich and Custom House. Using the Woolwich Ferry perhaps? Will it have a full service running by then?)
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Apr 7, 2019 12:38:52 GMT
Eh? Excuse me being a bit thick but what precisely opens on 10/12/19 and what reopens 10 days later? It's not entirely impossible to close and reopen a line in a short space of time - the Jubilee line closed for 5 days to allow the addition of the extra car. Granted, the amount of work needed was alleviated from the fact that the extension stations had been built with 7-car in mind and the older platforms were long from the outset but my point still stands. It is possible to close and then re-open a line in 10 days. The only (theoretical) difference is that the Jubilee didn't have it's opening, closing and subsequent re-opening in such a small amount of time.
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Post by Deep Level on Apr 7, 2019 12:53:21 GMT
(I am intrigued by a rail replacement bus between Woolwich and Custom House. Using the Woolwich Ferry perhaps? Will it have a full service running by then?) I can only imagine that they'll only run the service from either the Woolwich Ferry North pier or Canning Town to Liverpool Street and have tickets accepted on Southeastern and the DLR.
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 7, 2019 22:34:36 GMT
(I am intrigued by a rail replacement bus between Woolwich and Custom House. Using the Woolwich Ferry perhaps? Will it have a full service running by then?) I can only imagine that they'll only run the service from either the Woolwich Ferry North pier or Canning Town to Liverpool Street and have tickets accepted on Southeastern and the DLR. oh... just when I was looking forwards to a rail replacement boat !!
Actually, if what opens is just a shuttle between Paddington and Abbey Wood then why operate a rail replacement? Passengers could be expected to revert back to whatever transport they are using 'right now'.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 7, 2019 22:44:11 GMT
oh... just when I was looking forwards to a rail replacement boat !! Off-topic for this thread but I have been on a rail replacement boat service, from North Greenwich to a pier near East India DLR, when the Jubilee line was closed between North Greenwich and at least Canning Town. I took photos of and from the service on Saturday 10 October 2009, but I presume it ran at least all weekend. The service was operated by Thames Clippers, using at the time I travelled Sun Clipper.
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Post by Deep Level on Apr 7, 2019 23:15:58 GMT
oh... just when I was looking forwards to a rail replacement boat !! Off-topic for this thread but I have been on a rail replacement boat service, from North Greenwich to a pier near East India DLR, when the Jubilee line was closed between North Greenwich and at least Canning Town. I took photos of and from the service on Saturday 10 October 2009, but I presume it ran at least all weekend. The service was operated by Thames Clippers, using at the time I travelled Sun Clipper. The signage still exists for that.
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