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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 18, 2022 20:25:28 GMT
It would seem that the flurry of media interest coinciding with a Crossrail Press Release on Trial Operations was also overlaid with nuggets from the London Assembly Budget and Performance Committee. During this meeting, TfL Commissioner Andy Byford and Chief Finance Officer Simon Kilonback outlined that the Crossrail revenue forecast has been calculated on the basis that the core is generating revenue by 26 June 2022. That is less a reflection of operations and more “a prudent budgeting perspective” fitting within a rail operating period and of course aligns with the publicly committed deadline. The direct answers given to that committee was clearly a precursor to today’s formalised articles. Crossrail Press Release: www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/elizabeth-line-on-track-to-open-in-the-first-half-of-this-year-as-trial-operations-phase-continues |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 19, 2022 0:26:56 GMT
Latest Elizabeth Line Committee papers here at page 36 / 64 "In relation to the timeline to complete, based upon our Period 9 assessment, it continues to be the opinion of Line of Defence 2 assurance that while the schedule for delivering the Elizabeth line is under significant pressure, considering the balance of risks, it is currently most likely to open within ‘first half of 2022’." However, more detail at page 27 / 64 about commencement of revenue service: Earliest possible date was forecast as March 2022, with 50% chance by May 2022, and 80% likely by June 2022. On page 20 / 64 there is further slippage with "The T-Minus programme bought focus on the key deliverables to enable a Go/No Go series of gates. During December 2021, the decision was made to delay introduction of the second phase of Trial Operations for at least two weeks to allow for further testing and critical evidence of improved reliability. The new date for the start of Phase 2 is now the end of January and will involve more complex volunteer exercises, including evacuations of trains and stations". |
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Post by elsombernie on Jan 19, 2022 16:48:16 GMT
There was smoke coming out of the tunnel portals west of Custom House Station this afternoon. I'm hoping it was part of the trail operations.
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Post by Chris L on Jan 20, 2022 17:34:33 GMT
There was smoke coming out of the tunnel portals west of Custom House Station this afternoon. I'm hoping it was part of the trail operations. Just confirmed by Crossrail Project on Twitter that it was an exercise with the Fire Brigade with simulated smoke on a train. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 20, 2022 23:35:44 GMT
The first passenger!
(But perhaps not as intended)
see tweet and reply
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 21, 2022 11:52:46 GMT
January 2022 update:
Bond Street delayed from core opening.
Volunteer exercises (for TfL Staff):
Sunday 13 February: Open route evacuation of train
Saturday 19 February: Train evacuation in tunnel to a station
Saturday 26 February: Train evacuation via an emergency shaft
Saturday 5 March: Train evacuation in tunnel to a station
Sunday 13 March: Mass volume timetable test
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Post by coldplayfan18 on Jan 21, 2022 15:49:02 GMT
Any information on when the new entrance at Ilford will reopen?
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Post by Chris L on Jan 21, 2022 16:28:21 GMT
Any information on when the new entrance at Ilford will reopen? Take a look at the previous page. |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 21, 2022 18:50:33 GMT
Ian Visits says: Once the line is certified as ready to open, TfL’s Commissioner, Andy Byford has said that he wants a couple of weeks of shadow running, which is where the whole line, trains and staff run the service as a full passenger line, minus the passengers. This final shakedown builds up the last phase of experience in the staff working on the line.
The Crossrail team are reported to be working hard for a 6th March opening, although with the addition of the shadow running period, that would push the opening back to 20th March.So "Sunday 13 March: Mass volume timetable test" above would give opening Sunday 27 March 2022!
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jan 22, 2022 11:26:29 GMT
Maybe. let's wait and see. IanVisits has been known to get things wrong in the past.
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 22, 2022 15:06:59 GMT
Canary Wharf station was handed over to Rail for London (Infrastructure) yesterday morning
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Post by coldplayfan18 on Jan 22, 2022 16:32:28 GMT
Just Bond Street left now. Also why is it that when Crossrail finally opens, it will be split into 3 routes? Is there still some work that needs to be done before they can have trains running down the full line as a single service?
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 22, 2022 17:49:27 GMT
Whilst there are some residual testing cycles to be carried out, the fringes themselves are commissioned and are already in use for the transfer of rolling stock which will still be the case when Stage 3 goes live.
After the core opens, it's Stage 5b (Stage 4 has been abolished) this autumn which is limited interworking from both ends but still planned to reach 24tph in the peaks. Ex-West services will work through to Abbey Wood and ex-East services* will work through to Paddington (Crossrail). Finally Stage 5c no later than May 2023 is full interworking.
*Limited peak-hour services will continue to serve Liverpool Street NR station
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Post by Chris L on Jan 22, 2022 19:39:13 GMT
The start of core services (Stage 3) is split primarily is to maintain operational simplicity as the passenger service beds in. Shadow testing is all well and good but it isn't exhaustive and running the real-world passenger service whilst it's still 'low-risk' will help inform on any refinements before the stakes are upped. Whilst there are some residual testing cycles to be carried out, the fringes themselves are commissioned and are already in use for the transfer of rolling stock which will still be the case when Stage 3 goes live. After the core opens, it's Stage 5b (Stage 4 has been abolished) this autumn which is limited interworking from both ends but still planned to reach 24tph in the peaks. Ex-West services will work through to Abbey Wood and ex-East services* will work through to Paddington (Crossrail). Finally Stage 5c no later than May 2023 is full interworking. *Limited peak-hour services will continue to serve Liverpool Street NR station The Abbey Wood - Paddington service is self contained and doesn't need to fit in with National Rail timetable changes. This means that the service can start as soon as practical. |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 22, 2022 20:17:02 GMT
In the Minutes of the Elizabeth Line Committee of 25 November 2021 here "It was noted that it would not be possible to run a complete 24 trains per hour timetable until the next software update in April 2022". So a main opening before then means no chance to trial the full service. The current plans presumed that reversal of full 24tph service at Paddington with earlier planned stage opening from Shenfield would be difficult. Will a trial of 24tph therefore require a closure of the recently opened central core? |
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 22, 2022 22:54:19 GMT
Any information on when the new entrance at Ilford will reopen? Mañana, always mañana. I can tell you that the large crane that is needed to help lift heavy parts up for the building of the station superstructure has been removed, so work is progressing. But actual opening date? btw, a more general comment: Whilst its true that the longer trains will carry more passengers than previous types of train, especially in sardine tin standing mode, the service will never be as frequent as it was in the 1980s when rush hour services would see over 20 trains an hour at the busiest times. This is because in the 1990's when there was a recession and fewer people were travelling the signalling was doctored in a way that reduced train frequencies. Apparently it was not liked that trains were so close to each other that train drivers usually travelled on double yellow, rather than green signals. As far as I am aware there were never any accidents, it was more a case of people 'not liking' something rather than actual safety improvements. It could be said that the consequential overcrowding because of these changes actually increased danger. It certainly made travelling less pleasant and increased crowding on the platform at Stratford! |
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Post by Tom on Jan 22, 2022 23:27:16 GMT
btw, a more general comment: Whilst its true that the longer trains will carry more passengers than previous types of train, especially in sardine tin standing mode, the service will never be as frequent as it was in the 1980s when rush hour services would see over 20 trains an hour at the busiest times. This is because in the 1990's when there was a recession and fewer people were travelling the signalling was doctored in a way that reduced train frequencies. Apparently it was not liked that trains were so close to each other that train drivers usually travelled on double yellow, rather than green signals. As far as I am aware there were never any accidents, it was more a case of people 'not liking' something rather than actual safety improvements. More likely that the signalling was altered to reflect demand and current safety standards, and considering that Liverpool Street itself was resignalled in about 1990, it was probably designed pre-recession. The previous signalling was installed shortly after the second world war and was life expired. As signal engineers we dislike trains travelling constantly on two yellows because they're not being driven in the optimal way - the best headway is achieved when a signal changes from two yellows to green just before the driver sees it. When you're constantly driving on two yellows you're always on the braking curve to a red aspect and thus cannot make the most of the line speed. In the pre-TPWS world it also meant drivers were constantly cancelling AWS warnings as a matter of course, with an increased risk (through increased likelihood) of cancelling the AWS for a yellow or red as a reflex action with the potential to result in a SPAD. |
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Post by bomo on Jan 23, 2022 8:20:11 GMT
Just Bond Street left now. Also why is it that when Crossrail finally opens, it will be split into 3 routes? Is there still some work that needs to be done before they can have trains running down the full line as a single service?
Two reasons I think. 1. The need to fit in with NR timetable change points 2. Reduction of risk. Avoiding the risk of the complexities inherent in the signalling transitions at each end on day 1 of live operation seems to me to be wise. Much better to bring that transition in later once the core has settled down into reliable day to day live operation and any issues uncovered by that have been dealt with.
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Post by coldplayfan18 on Jan 23, 2022 10:52:09 GMT
Just Bond Street left now. Also why is it that when Crossrail finally opens, it will be split into 3 routes? Is there still some work that needs to be done before they can have trains running down the full line as a single service?
Two reasons I think. 1. The need to fit in with NR timetable change points 2. Reduction of risk. Avoiding the risk of the complexities inherent in the signalling transitions at each end on day 1 of live operation seems to me to be wise. Much better to bring that transition in later once the core has settled down into reliable day to day live operation and any issues uncovered by that have been dealt with.
Okay thank you! Also, another question. Will Whitechapel be on the central section from Abbey Wood? Or will it be on the Shenfield - Liverpool Street branch? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 23, 2022 11:04:15 GMT
Okay thank you! Also, another question. Will Whitechapel be on the central section from Abbey Wood? Or will it be on the Shenfield - Liverpool Street branch? Both, it’s the last core station before the branches |
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Post by silenthunter on Jan 23, 2022 11:40:49 GMT
Okay thank you! Also, another question. Will Whitechapel be on the central section from Abbey Wood? Or will it be on the Shenfield - Liverpool Street branch? Both, it’s the last core station before the branches From Stratford, trains will go into a portal just west of there, but I believe some services will still go into the "high level" platforms. |
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Post by Chris L on Jan 23, 2022 17:19:34 GMT
Test running of trains from Ilford into the core section today.
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Post by jimbo on Jan 23, 2022 18:27:23 GMT
From Stratford, trains will go into a portal just west of there, but I believe some services will still go into the "high level" platforms. This will maintain crew route learning, so in the event of some incident preventing entry into the tunnel, will services divert to Liverpool Street 'high level' to maintain the connection for passengers? |
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Post by t697 on Jan 23, 2022 18:38:35 GMT
One minor disbenefit will be that at the moment if travelling from Liverpool St to Stratford, one can simply check the display on the main concourse and go for the next train that stops at Stratford be it a Greater Anglia or TfL Rail one. When the TfL Rail ones are Elizabeth line and mostly running 'downstairs' one will have to decide in a different way.
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Post by Chris L on Jan 23, 2022 20:22:08 GMT
From Stratford, trains will go into a portal just west of there, but I believe some services will still go into the "high level" platforms. This will maintain crew route learning, so in the event of some incident preventing entry into the tunnel, will services divert to Liverpool Street 'high level' to maintain the connection for passengers? Only 4 trains in each peak. |
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Post by Chris L on Jan 23, 2022 20:24:13 GMT
One minor disbenefit will be that at the moment if travelling from Liverpool St to Stratford, one can simply check the display on the main concourse and go for the next train that stops at Stratford be it a Greater Anglia or TfL Rail one. When the TfL Rail ones are Elizabeth line and mostly running 'downstairs' one will have to decide in a different way. Given there are Greater Anglia trains to get to Stratford you have a choice in peak hours. I'd go downstairs particularly if changing from the Tube. |
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Post by Chris M on Jan 24, 2022 0:50:34 GMT
Canary Wharf station was handed over to Rail for London (Infrastructure) yesterday morning There is a video of the handover: |
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Post by d7666 on Jan 24, 2022 18:32:48 GMT
One minor disbenefit will be that at the moment if travelling from Liverpool St to Stratford, one can simply check the display on the main concourse and go for the next train that stops at Stratford be it a Greater Anglia or TfL Rail one. When the TfL Rail ones are Elizabeth line and mostly running 'downstairs' one will have to decide in a different way. No different then to today when deciding to make that same journey by main line or Central Line. Except which stairs to decide to go down. Or London Bridge to Kings Cross - up the steps to Thameslink or down the steps to the Northern line ? Or Paddington to Liverpool Street - down the steps to Crossrail or up the steps and down again to H&C ? Are these decisions really any issue at all ? |
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Post by t697 on Jan 24, 2022 20:13:11 GMT
One minor disbenefit will be that at the moment if travelling from Liverpool St to Stratford, one can simply check the display on the main concourse and go for the next train that stops at Stratford be it a Greater Anglia or TfL Rail one. When the TfL Rail ones are Elizabeth line and mostly running 'downstairs' one will have to decide in a different way. No different then to today when deciding to make that same journey by main line or Central Line. Except which stairs to decide to go down. Or London Bridge to Kings Cross - up the steps to Thameslink or down the steps to the Northern line ? Or Paddington to Liverpool Street - down the steps to Crossrail or up the steps and down again to H&C ? Are these decisions really any issue at all ? I agree and did say it's minor, at least until you trek to your choice and find a service disruption. For me Central line would be bottom option. Too noisy and cramped and with too much rail corrugation en route. No comparison to a nice new Aventra or even a perfectly adequate old 321 or 315 while they are still about. |
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Post by Deep Level on Jan 25, 2022 10:55:14 GMT
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