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Post by jimbo on Jul 7, 2021 3:34:02 GMT
Will eastbound SSR to Northern line really require 4 lifts? platform → ticket hall ticket hall → intermediate landing intermediate landing → Northern line link Northern line link → Northern line Yes, unfortunately so. The southern end of the Northern line platforms is extremely camped with the adjoining corridors and escalator barrels of the Northern line, Northern City Line and a spiral staircase all hemmed into a very constrained space. Pity the lift doesn't also link to the Great Northern platforms, which I believe are stacked with the Northern line, one above the other. Presumably also due to cramped position. |
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Post by toby on Jul 8, 2021 7:52:19 GMT
Yes, unfortunately so. The southern end of the Northern line platforms is extremely camped with the adjoining corridors and escalator barrels of the Northern line, Northern City Line and a spiral staircase all hemmed into a very constrained space. Pity the lift doesn't also link to the Great Northern platforms, which I believe are stacked with the Northern line, one above the other. Presumably also due to cramped position. Apparently TfL asked if they wanted it, but they didn't want to pay. Do we assume that if TfL are given that line they'd quickly add a link? |
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Post by Chris L on Jul 8, 2021 8:17:18 GMT
Pity the lift doesn't also link to the Great Northern platforms, which I believe are stacked with the Northern line, one above the other. Presumably also due to cramped position. Apparently TfL asked if they wanted it, but they didn't want to pay. Do we assume that if TfL are given that line they'd quickly add a link? Probably not that easy given the escalators serving the GN platforms. These limit the vertical space available for a shaft. |
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Post by Chris L on Jul 12, 2021 16:56:40 GMT
The International Railway Journey is suggesting a February 2022 opening date for Abbey Wood/Paddington.
The next stages would now be to run trains from Heathrow/Reading to Abbey Wood and Shenfield to Paddington Low Level.
This is to avoid problems on one side of the core causing delays on the other.
Finally everything gets joined up.
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 13, 2021 10:04:07 GMT
ah, thats a shame, as some people were hoping for a Paddington - Abbey Wood 'Christmas Gift'
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Post by superteacher on Jul 17, 2021 11:59:50 GMT
ah, thats a shame, as some people were hoping for a Paddington - Abbey Wood 'Christmas Gift' It wouldn’t surprise me if it opened at the end of this year with a load of spin saying “we’ve moved heaven and earth to get to this point (three years late!!!!! 😂😂)” |
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Post by jimbo on Jul 17, 2021 12:41:55 GMT
ah, thats a shame, as some people were hoping for a Paddington - Abbey Wood 'Christmas Gift' It wouldn’t surprise me if it opened at the end of this year with a load of spin saying “we’ve moved heaven and earth to get to this point (three years late!!!!! 😂😂)” This week's Elizabeth Line Committee meeting link p.27 / 84 says earliest opening Feb 2022, 50% chance of April 2022, 80% chance by June 2022! |
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Post by superteacher on Jul 17, 2021 16:40:36 GMT
It wouldn’t surprise me if it opened at the end of this year with a load of spin saying “we’ve moved heaven and earth to get to this point (three years late!!!!! 😂😂)” This week's Elizabeth Line Committee meeting link p.27 / 84 says earliest opening Feb 2022, 50% chance of April 2022, 80% chance by June 2022! I appreciate that’s the official date - but I still wouldn’t rule out a 2021 opening, although unlikely. |
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Post by alpinejohn on Jul 18, 2021 8:57:33 GMT
So who is responsible for the "final" piece of work needed to open the core?
I realise that there may be loads of preceding tasks like ensuring insurance is in place, checking the fire alarm systems work and tests completed to prove stations can be evacuated in acceptable timeframes etc - but those tasks are obviously not the "Final" task which I guess could simply entail someone being asked to sign a bit of paper (probably surrounded by a media scrum).
So who actually gives the final OK to open the core for public service?
Is it someone at TFL/LU who says it is fine to open the line, or is it the Mayor or someone at ORR who will give the final approval?
Finally is there a chance that what we are now seeing in recent announcements is that opening is being discretely delayed so that Her Majesty the Queen (who opened and then rode on the first Victoria line service back on 7 March 1969) can be invited to open and travel on the first Elizabeth Line public service through the core - some 53 years later, on 7 March 2022?
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Post by Chris L on Jul 18, 2021 15:04:21 GMT
So who is responsible for the "final" piece of work needed to open the core? I realise that there may be loads of preceding tasks like ensuring insurance is in place, checking the fire alarm systems work and tests completed to prove stations can be evacuated in acceptable timeframes etc - but those tasks are obviously not the "Final" task which I guess could simply entail someone being asked to sign a bit of paper (probably surrounded by a media scrum). So who actually gives the final OK to open the core for public service? Is it someone at TFL/LU who says it is fine to open the line, or is it the Mayor or someone at ORR who will give the final approval? Finally is there a chance that what we are now seeing in recent announcements is that opening is being discretely delayed so that Her Majesty the Queen (who opened and then rode on the first Victoria line service back on 7 March 1969) can be invited to open and travel on the first Elizabeth Line public service through the core - some 53 years later, on 7 March 2022? There is no simple answer to most of your questions except the last one. the Queen has already done the royal visit and received her Elizabeth line roundel. It will open just as soon as the other approvals are given. Fire systems are very complex. Liverpool Street has a mass of back of house staff accommodation and plant and machinery plus the joining together of the Underground stations at Liverpool Street and Moorgate. The LFEPA (London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority) will need to approve. London Underground inspectors have been checking against standards throughout the project. Once they prove 24 trains per hour can run they will do trial operations with staff riding the trains and boarding and alighting at stations and using the lifts and escalators. |
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Post by superteacher on Jul 18, 2021 15:05:13 GMT
So who is responsible for the "final" piece of work needed to open the core? I realise that there may be loads of preceding tasks like ensuring insurance is in place, checking the fire alarm systems work and tests completed to prove stations can be evacuated in acceptable timeframes etc - but those tasks are obviously not the "Final" task which I guess could simply entail someone being asked to sign a bit of paper (probably surrounded by a media scrum). So who actually gives the final OK to open the core for public service? Is it someone at TFL/LU who says it is fine to open the line, or is it the Mayor or someone at ORR who will give the final approval? Finally is there a chance that what we are now seeing in recent announcements is that opening is being discretely delayed so that Her Majesty the Queen (who opened and then rode on the first Victoria line service back on 7 March 1969) can be invited to open and travel on the first Elizabeth Line public service through the core - some 53 years later, on 7 March 2022? She’s not getting any younger - wouldn’t delay it too long as you just never know. |
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Post by jimbo on Jul 18, 2021 21:06:06 GMT
.... Fire systems are very complex. Liverpool Street has a mass of back of house staff accommodation and plant and machinery plus the joining together of the Underground stations at Liverpool Street and Moorgate. .... It was mentioned earlier that Farringdon/Barbican are now linked, so if one has to close for fire alarm, then they both close! Will this also apply to Liv.Street/Moorgate? |
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Post by Chris L on Jul 19, 2021 11:20:21 GMT
.... Fire systems are very complex. Liverpool Street has a mass of back of house staff accommodation and plant and machinery plus the joining together of the Underground stations at Liverpool Street and Moorgate. .... It was mentioned earlier that Farringdon/Barbican are now linked, so if one has to close for fire alarm, then they both close! Will this also apply to Liv.Street/Moorgate? They are now very integrated so yes. Simple things like getting rid of duplicate room numbers and descriptions take a lot of doing. |
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Post by silenthunter on Jul 19, 2021 19:49:26 GMT
Isn't there a single asset numbering system across all TfL?
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Post by Chris L on Jul 19, 2021 20:25:36 GMT
Isn't there a single asset numbering system across all TfL? Each station has sets pf station layout plans with levels and numbers for rooms, corridors, stairs, escalators etc. Merging the 2 stations required a new set of drawings where numbers aren't duplicated and to include the Crossrail levels and things like ventilation/escape shafts. |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 19, 2021 23:37:27 GMT
There is an old thread about room numbers that has some relevance here. It is likely that there would be some duplication between the stations, e.g. I'd expect both stations to have had stairwells numbered 1/601, 1/602, etc. Depending exactly how the stations line up there may need to be some renumbering of levels too. Every change will need to be implemented, staff refamiliarised, emergency services rebriefed (refamiliarised?), etc. All of which will take time and so will need to be carefully coordinated. |
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Post by Chris L on Jul 20, 2021 6:28:48 GMT
There is an old thread about room numbers that has some relevance here. It is likely that there would be some duplication between the stations, e.g. I'd expect both stations to have had stairwells numbered 1/601, 1/602, etc. Depending exactly how the stations line up there may need to be some renumbering of levels too. Every change will need to be implemented, staff refamiliarised, emergency services rebriefed (refamiliarised?), etc. All of which will take time and so will need to be carefully coordinated. SIDs (Station Identification Discs) were introduced after the Kings Cross fire. They are not discs but rectangular. The numbers are white on a dark blue background. They work with station layout plans and one aim was to help emergency service personnel identify rooms where staff might be inside. I worked at Liverpool Street installing door signage from updated station layouts. I spotted several duplicated room numbers which were changed. The Crossrail platforms are very deep which means that the level numbers reach 11/XXX. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jul 21, 2021 11:39:37 GMT
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Post by Chris L on Jul 21, 2021 14:41:54 GMT
Yet again Network Rail have done nothing to achieve step free train access/egress. It ought to have been possible to install at least one platform hump. Their usual answer is that it's another project. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jul 21, 2021 14:47:14 GMT
Yet again Network Rail have done nothing to achieve step free train access/egress. It ought to have been possible to install at least one platform hump. Their usual answer is that it's another project. I don’t now how Harrington humps would work here with 4, 8 and 12 car class 387’s calling here as well as 9 car class 345’s potentially producing some variation in door locations. Personally, I’m more aggrieved at TFL for opting for high-floored trains and then dropping an absolute clanger by saying “oh we’d like to have done so but because of some freight trains, that’s not possible”. That is simply not the case.  |
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Post by sd826e on Jul 21, 2021 15:16:57 GMT
Does this relate to why Custom House and Abbey Wood don’t have platform edge doors?
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vincenture
Quiz tryhard, and an advocate for simpler, less complicated rail routes
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Post by vincenture on Jul 21, 2021 15:59:15 GMT
An alternative to platform edge doors would be to install passenger intrusion systems but ya possibly due to the freight issue
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Post by silenthunter on Jul 21, 2021 16:05:44 GMT
Does this relate to why Custom House and Abbey Wood don’t have platform edge doors? Would freight be going through Custom House? |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jul 21, 2021 16:08:42 GMT
Does this relate to why Custom House and Abbey Wood don’t have platform edge doors? Custom House has platforms set at 1100mm to match the floor height of class 345 trains along with all of the other core station platforms. The decision to not fit PEDs at Custom House and Abbey Wood (Crossrail) was probably hinged around the exposed nature of those platforms. |
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Post by Chris L on Jul 21, 2021 16:09:17 GMT
Does this relate to why Custom House and Abbey Wood don’t have platform edge doors? Would freight be going through Custom House? It's only the core stations that have doors/full height screens. |
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vincenture
Quiz tryhard, and an advocate for simpler, less complicated rail routes
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Post by vincenture on Aug 1, 2021 8:18:45 GMT
I suppose Abbey Wood may have a possibility to be used by other terminating trains hence PEDs werent installed
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Post by Chris L on Aug 1, 2021 13:02:46 GMT
I suppose Abbey Wood may have a possibility to be used by other terminating trains hence PEDs werent installed The platforms at Abbey Wood are completely separate and there is a wooden fence between the 2 platforms. Unlike the doors on the Jubilee line extension the screens on the core section run from floor to ceiling. They are not designed for open air. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 6, 2021 8:58:07 GMT
Paddington station handed over to TfL this morning.
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Post by jimbo on Aug 7, 2021 5:15:45 GMT
As opening gets closer, has there been any talk of a Night Tube service on the Elizabeth Line, perhaps Paddington to Abbey Wood on TfL section? LU Night Tube could be back running by then!
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Post by Chris L on Aug 7, 2021 8:06:24 GMT
As opening gets closer, has there been any talk of a Night Tube service on the Elizabeth Line, perhaps Paddington to Abbey Wood on TfL section? LU Night Tube could be back running by then! Some years ago it was talked about. The tunnels in the core section are capable of running in both directions. (I've seen the destination screens above the platform doors show alternate east and westbound trains.) The Shenfield section has a lot of freight/car trains at night. Heathrow closes at night. I'm fairly sure there will be trains until 0100 and from around 0400. |
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