rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 5, 2018 15:36:56 GMT
Click/tap here if embedded tweet fails to display. |
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Post by Deep Level on Aug 5, 2018 15:45:50 GMT
Wow didn't know that was happening, I'm wondering what the new interior looks like. Is it just me that thinks the new livery makes the train look older?
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Post by domh245 on Aug 5, 2018 17:24:57 GMT
It's further proof that I'm really not very good as this speculation business! Half right, half not! It certainly does look a bit better, although I'm not overly keen on the orange front end, nor can I imagine LO allowing a deviation in their brand for it.... Whilst the Class 378s can meet points a and d, I think that they wouldn't be able to pass points b or c without modifications to the way in which the lights work, assuming that the lights themselves are suitably bright (according to BS EN15153-1* and the TSI for Locomotives and Passenger Rolling Stock). Indeed, the only units in the country that I can think of that meet these requirements are the 700s (and derivatives), 800s (and derivatives), 345s (and derivatives) and the 385s... It does seem that the lights themselves were fine as they appear unmodified in those photos, but we'll have to see if they've been modified in the way they operate. As for the changes, it's been described thus: "Will include new external livery, new seat covers with the moquette from the 710, deep clean and repainted grab poles." so no major changes |
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 5, 2018 19:04:12 GMT
Maybe this will work on the Goblin route after the diesels go and before the 710's are ready?
At present there is a gap between these events and last Friday a Goblin driver told me that if the departure of the diesels is not delayed the service may have to close, for a while.
ps: on that Friday the Goblin service was OK but the North London line service was in meltdown with me twice travelling on trains non-stopping stations 'to catch up time' and for one journey waiting 27 minutes for the next train. Plus I saw a train describer advertising a third train coming before the second!
Simon
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Post by patrickb on Aug 5, 2018 19:20:03 GMT
A Class 378 was already tested on part of the GOBLIN. To close the line due to a shortage of trains would be very disappointing so hopefully this will enter service there.
I've found the line to be very reliable and in fact have taken to using this more than the NLL when travelling East-West now. My connections at Stratford are always timed to be >1 min when changing to and from the Central.
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Post by goldenarrow on Aug 5, 2018 19:45:38 GMT
Reminds me of Japanese commuter rolling stock which also can employ what we might consider ‘bold’ colour schemes.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 5, 2018 22:53:50 GMT
Fairly ugly and unnecessary. Sorry to be a party pooper, but would it not have cost less to design the new train's livery to match that of the 378, rather than designing something new, then designing a new variant of it for the older trainsets and applying it?
I suppose all things are subjective, but can't help but think they are missing a trick not going for the same style of livery across all modes - white body, blue skirt, mode coloured front-ends and doors, minimal black boxing around windows.
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Antje
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Post by Antje on Aug 6, 2018 9:36:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 10:50:55 GMT
I think it looks pretty!
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Post by A60stock on Aug 6, 2018 12:57:38 GMT
Whilst the refurb looks interesting and good, i also agree as to what the need to go this far was. Asides from repainting the cab front to orange, why change anything else? The 378 interior is still rather new and not in need of a refurb? Is the exterior livery in need of a change either? I can think of other TFL stock that is far more in urgent need of refurbishment and re livery.
Why arent the liveries consistent anymore/in line with the LU style of livery as described earlier? The DLR stock was the first to deviate, then the crossrail 345s and now the 378s/710s!
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Post by superteacher on Aug 6, 2018 13:15:39 GMT
And I thought TFL were cash strapped?
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Post by jukes on Aug 6, 2018 14:36:26 GMT
TfL are cash strapped but there may be a clause in the lease agreement which covers periodic refurbishment and the stock is fast (ish-ish) approaching its 10th anniversary. As an aside, its unlikely they will be used on GOB. First they are 5-car so too many issues with SDO, Dispatch, etc, not least of which is ORR approval, which would not be forthcoming (the same goes for 315s which would need mods etc). The most pressing reason is that are aren't enough (or rather only just enough) 378s to sustain the current service levels on DC, NLL and ELL. There's no way you could squeeze 6 or 7 to operate GOB.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Aug 6, 2018 16:21:58 GMT
I struggled with this while soaking up the 40 degrees here in the Med and then decided that, assuming a refurb is planned and costed and as long as it runs on time reliably they could paint them purple with yellow spots for all the impact it'd have on the travelling public.
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Post by Chris W on Aug 6, 2018 21:34:06 GMT
I'm sure I noticed one of these at Ilford Depot tonight in passing.... during my marathon 3 hour home journey tonight....
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Post by Chris W on Aug 7, 2018 19:20:25 GMT
I'm sure I noticed one of these at Ilford Depot tonight in passing.... during my marathon 3 hour home journey tonight....
Yep.... having enjoyed a better, albeit just as uncomfortably humid return commute this evening, I'd put money on that being the one currently at Ilford Depot..... |
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Post by waysider on Aug 9, 2018 9:11:39 GMT
Can someone repost the pics please - the original link isn't working
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Post by peterc on Aug 9, 2018 13:57:22 GMT
Not just me then.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 9, 2018 14:08:02 GMT
It would appear that the original tweet has been deleted.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 12, 2018 21:57:55 GMT
I was hoping that I would be able to help out here as I often save photos from tweets... but I've not found the image. Maybe though its because I read that tweet here on DD and not on my tablet (I usually save the images on the tablet).
Simon
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Post by goldenarrow on Aug 12, 2018 22:08:18 GMT
Disclaimer: The following photos formed part of a published post on Twitter by @cmp_date which intern was from railforums.co.uk and has since been deleted.   Chris W , you’re spot on, works for the 378 are being carried at Ilford at the rate of one a week. |
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Post by waysider on Aug 19, 2018 7:17:35 GMT
Can somebody explain to me why the 'rule' about trains & locomotives having bright yellow fronts has been dropped and the thinking behind it?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 19, 2018 7:23:12 GMT
Can somebody explain to me why the 'rule' about trains & locomotives having bright yellow fronts has been dropped and the thinking behind it? I understand that modern headlight technology renders the application of yellow ends superfluous. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 19, 2018 8:04:15 GMT
AIUI yellow ends were introduced because the lack of a voluminous exhaust meant diesel locomotives were not as easily seen as their steam predecessors. This was then standardised to all 'front ends'.
Modern headlamps are considerably brighter than those fitted previously and track staff frequently observe the lights before they can discern the yellow ends.
The requirements still generally exists for the yellow end (IIRC a panel of 1m²), however there is a derogation if the vehicle is fitted with the 'triangle' of three lights AND the operator has performed a route-specific risk assessment.
Recently North Western Trains (current operators of the former London Midland franchise) have started to repaint units in their new liveries; they have retained a yellow panel on the corridor connection of their cl350. Brand new stock for Northern is being delivered with full yellow ends. The Northern livery suits retention of the yellow end, however i was under the impression that the cl350 had compliant lights for the derogation.
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Post by waysider on Aug 19, 2018 10:31:41 GMT
Can somebody explain to me why the 'rule' about trains & locomotives having bright yellow fronts has been dropped and the thinking behind it? I understand that modern headlight technology renders the application of yellow ends superfluous. ...and when a train or loco is parked up in a siding - is it unimportant not for them to be conspicuously visible? I guess its not the biggest deal in the world as London Underground vehicles get by okay without them but it just strikes me as a useful safety feature to throw away? |
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35b
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Post by 35b on Aug 19, 2018 10:39:05 GMT
I understand that modern headlight technology renders the application of yellow ends superfluous. ...and when a train or loco is parked up in a siding - is it unimportant not for them to be conspicuously visible? I guess its not the biggest deal in the world as London Underground vehicles get by okay without them but it just strikes me as a useful safety feature to throw away? A feature that seems to have been unique to British Rail. The biggest issue for me is not the absence of yellow, but the period of change when those on or about the track are conditioned to look for yellow. As for in sidings, I’d understood the purpose of the front end markings to be the protection of people from trains. |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 19, 2018 10:43:33 GMT
The bold red fronts on LU serve the same purpose as the bold yellow fronts on NR - there is nothing special about yellow specifically. Being conspicuous in sidings is probably a useful feature, but any livery that stands out from the surroundings will fulfil that role. As noted above the reason for yellow ends in the first place was the safety of track workers, and they are almost never in danger from stabled trains in sidings (and often when they are only there a short while they'll be lit up anyway). It's also worth noting that with better illumination, hi-vis clothing and better forward vision from modern driving cabs, track workers are often easier to spot these days and so drivers can give earlier auditory warnings as well. Regarding 35b's point about transition. I don't think track workers are conditioned to look for yellow specifically - rather the yellow is just there to make sure the train is conspicuous, but modern headlights do a better job of that. After all French trains for example don't have yellow fronts and this table shows that, at least in 2016, they did not have a significantly higher fatality rate than the UK (the date is not adjusted for route length, I can't immediately find a source for non-fatal accidents or for other years and have run out of time to look) |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 19, 2018 10:47:16 GMT
..and when a train or loco is parked up in a siding - is it unimportant not for them to be conspicuously visible? If that was the criterion, then every rail vehicle - whether or not it could be at the front of a train - would need a yellow end. Something going into a siding too fast is going to come to grief at the buffer stops, whether or not there is something parked in it. It was the noise, not the plume of exhaust, that mainly warned track workers of the approach of a steam train. Diesel and - particularly - electric trains are much quieter. That being the case, it is surprising that yellow ends were only introduced sixty years after electric trains first appeared on our railways. On the Underground, I recall that D78 and 1983 stocks had the headlights and tail lights mounted very low down, the idea being, as I understand it, that they would be reflected along the rails and give a greater warning of approach as they would effectively shine round corners in tunnels. The idea does not seem to have been perpetuated on later stocks though. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 22:43:49 GMT
All of the new Greater Anglia trains have compliant headlights but are still getting small yellow front panels. Not for track workers benefit this time but because of the number of pedestrian crossings in rural East Anglia.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 23, 2018 2:24:15 GMT
All of the new Greater Anglia trains have compliant headlights but are still getting small yellow front panels. Not for track workers benefit this time but because of the number of pedestrian crossings in rural East Anglia. None of the images I've seen of the new stock reflect this, if anything there is a flash of red:   Speaking of a flash of red, we drift... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 12:31:00 GMT
Pointless. Then again if it is one thing TFL have always been good at it is wasting money on changing colours, seat designs and tiles.
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