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Post by lukeo on Nov 8, 2019 0:41:02 GMT
So it seems that the 18th of Nov is the date set for 4 dc's an hour.. It’s the 17th, as discussed above. |
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Post by nopixar on Nov 17, 2019 2:21:03 GMT
There’s a 710 in Chingford sidings today. A 710/1 in fact. Promising! Nothing major. Is to test and commision the AVIS. |
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Post by stapler on Nov 17, 2019 8:12:16 GMT
There’s a 710 in Chingford sidings today. A 710/1 in fact. Promising! Nothing major. Is to test and commision the AVIS. AVIS? |
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Post by cudsn15 on Nov 17, 2019 8:30:36 GMT
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 17, 2019 11:04:22 GMT
Nothing major. Is to test and commision the AVIS. AVIS? utomatic Vehicle Inspection System, in short, a shed with laser guided telemetry that builds a virtual profile for each train and can then used to forecast changes in maintenance requirements aswell as pick immediate issues. I think it’s first deployment was Central Rivers Depot for the Voyager fleet which is why photos popped up of a Class 345 unit in the early days before dedicated ones were commissioned for that fleet. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 17, 2019 11:13:24 GMT
Undefined acronyms are beginning to creep back once again. As a courtesy to those who may not know what they mean, would posters make sure they define them in the first instance please? Many thanks.
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Post by lukeo on Nov 17, 2019 11:49:28 GMT
So it seems that the 18th of Nov is the date set for 4 dc's an hour.. It’s the 17th, as discussed above. Today's the day the Euston-Watford line goes 4tph.. but right now there's a half hour gap heading southbound (last train departed Watford at 11:31, next one is 12:02). Hopefully just a train not tracking? |
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 17, 2019 12:27:28 GMT
lukeo , 2C15 is a bit of a quirk (11:48 from Watford Jct) as it isn't on the system and was replaced by a VARied timetable slot today, interestingly it doesn't seem to affecting the other direction.
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 17, 2019 14:23:30 GMT
lukeo , 2C15 is a bit of a quirk (11:48 from Watford Jct) as it isn't on the system and was replaced by a VARied timetable slot today, interestingly it doesn't seem to affecting the other direction. It would appear that there are train crew issues affecting the service today, some trains are appearing several digrams out of sync from their booked slots. 2C31 is already in position at Watford despite 2C26-27-28-29 & 30 still to go. |
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Post by stapler on Nov 17, 2019 21:47:58 GMT
<<a shed with laser guided telemetry that builds a virtual profile>>
There aren't any sheds at Chingford sidings, are there?
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 17, 2019 22:13:47 GMT
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Post by stapler on Nov 18, 2019 8:04:14 GMT
Thanks vm ----thought that was something to do with carriage washing!
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Post by billbedford on Nov 20, 2019 9:36:02 GMT
Found this on a local Facebook group yesterday:
"Hello, I am new to the area and I was wondering if anyone is already on the case of doing anything about the insufficient frequency of early morning overground trains? In my experience so far all early morning trains are so packed between Leyton Midland and Blackhorse road that one cannot jump in, and they're so jam-packed that it is impossible for doors to shut which then causes delays. This happens from the second train of the day and only seems to get worse if you try to catch a later one. I wrote to our MP about this a while ago but no response (and who knows what will happen after the election), so I was wondering if there were any pressure groups or other civic associations that could help solve this issue. Thank you!"
So, the new bigger 710s have been in full service for a few months before someone is complaining about overcrowding.
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Post by alpinejohn on Nov 20, 2019 10:30:54 GMT
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but in the short term I doubt anything will change, unless TFL already have put in a bid for extra services at the December timetable change.
Basically that line is part of National Rail and even if TFL had loads of spare trains and drivers ready to go, it is the Network Rail timetable slots which constrain the services TFL can run. Other operators (freight) also need to use some of the line capacity.
So if timetable slots are constrained the obvious solution is to move to longer 5 car trains! However that idea was pretty much derided at the outset on cost grounds especially when you realise that it was not that long ago the line was served by 2 car DMUs!
However the plus side of adding an additional trailer car to these trains is that it will add more than 25% capacity compared with a 4 car train as the whole space in the additional car will be available for extra passengers (you do not loose space for extra driving cabs).
Whilst the line is well capable of handling enormously long freight trains, there is a big practical and financial problem if you want to run longer passenger trains. Basically you need:
(1) to buy the extra trailer cars (I guess TFL could just about persuade Bormardier to do that at fair prices whilst the production line is still operational). But TFL are strapped for cash so TFL (and eventually passengers) probably would end up paying extra to purchase through a ROSCO(Rolling Stock Owning Company).
(2) Many hours of work and testing to suitably reprogramme the trains to operate the route as 5 car sets (different doors might need selective opening and balises updated to allow different stopping points.
(3) Many hours of work and testing would be needed to adapt the signalling system to accommodate 5 car sets.
(4) extend the platforms (again) at enormous cost - or if they are very lucky persuade ORR to provide some sort of exemption to use selective door opening. Whilst that may work at some locations, in a few cases you may end up with the longer train still fouling a nearby junction/signals/points. That has the effect of potentially holding up other services on the line so unlikely to go down well with National Rail or ORR.
As you can see none of that is cheap, none of it is quick, and in the current dire budgetary climate at TFL unlikely to happen any time soon even if from a passenger perspective something which would be very welcome.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 20, 2019 10:32:01 GMT
Found this on a local Facebook group yesterday: "Hello, I am new to the area and I was wondering if anyone is already on the case of doing anything about the insufficient frequency of early morning overground trains? In my experience so far all early morning trains are so packed between Leyton Midland and Blackhorse road that one cannot jump in, and they're so jam-packed that it is impossible for doors to shut which then causes delays. This happens from the second train of the day and only seems to get worse if you try to catch a later one. I wrote to our MP about this a while ago but no response (and who knows what will happen after the election), so I was wondering if there were any pressure groups or other civic associations that could help solve this issue. Thank you!" So, the new bigger 710s have been in full service for a few months before someone is complaining about overcrowding. I've said it before and I'll say it again......there are far too many people living and working in London (and this figure continues to rise) to allow the infatructure to support them, and until something is done about it, public transport will be rammed forever.  |
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Post by billbedford on Nov 21, 2019 10:24:09 GMT
It's not the number of people that's the problem, it's more that most people are expected to trek halfway across the city twice a day. I blame employers...
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 21, 2019 11:06:25 GMT
It's not the number of people that's the problem, it's more that most people are expected to trek halfway across the city twice a day. I blame employers... It is the number of people, of course it is as they're the ones involved in the crush loading, the roads are the same. I agree that employers have a part to play in this so make it worthwhile for them to relocate and people will move with them. As it stands, there are still too many passengers for the transport available. Adding the odd carriage to a train or increasing the frequency will mitigate (slightly) short term but despite this, once saturation is reached (which isn't far off) then what are you going to do? I'd wager a substantial sum on The Elizabeth Line being rammed to capacity from day one with a positive effect felt on The Central Line for perhaps a year before its clogged again. |
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 22, 2019 1:11:14 GMT
The route out through Stratford would not be so rammed if there were as many trains in the busiest peak hour as there were 30 years ago. Alas, the service was reduced to make it easier to commute in from outside London.
Ideally there needs to be at least 20x 9 car trains (an hour) via the tunnel plus the Liverpool St terminators in the rush hour.
The problem is what happen to the west of London. They need to either go somewhere or be given somewhere to reverse without blocking a platform used by through trains.
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Post by cudsn15 on Nov 22, 2019 10:03:40 GMT
Basically that line is part of National Rail and even if TFL had loads of spare trains and drivers ready to go, it is the Network Rail timetable slots which constrain the services TFL can run. Other operators (freight) also need to use some of the line capacity. So if timetable slots are constrained the obvious solution is to move to longer 5 car trains! However that idea was pretty much derided at the outset on cost grounds especially when you realise that it was not that long ago the line was served by 2 car DMUs! Well the line did have the Pixc (Passengers In eXcess of Capacity) Buster service during the DMU years with Overground - that's at least one path that could still be used... In fact I very rarely see any freight on these lines during rush hours - which I suspect is a deliberate decision - so I suspect there could be scope for additional rush hour services if the will and money was there along with the trains, drivers and train storage during off peak times... If the Goblin is already running at capacity during peak hours after the recent switch to the 4 car 710's - despite the delays and suspension then very erratic service over the past 2 years - shows how in demand this service is and will only continue to grow with the Barking Riverside development and the regeneration of Tottenham Hale (for Blackhorse Road). |
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Post by billbedford on Nov 22, 2019 11:41:16 GMT
The original complaint was from the GOBLIN between Leyton Midland Road and Blackhorse Road, so I presume that people are changing to the Victoria Line to avoid the Central?
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Post by ashlar on Dec 2, 2019 21:43:19 GMT
Sounds like class 710s are now imminent on the Chingford/Enfield lines.
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Post by nopixar on Dec 2, 2019 22:02:04 GMT
Except, there will be no driver training this year and the first software drop including electrical coupling is being readied shortly.. when it does there may be several iterations after that to iron out issues. She is the ultimate optimist.
You’lll also need several drivers trained to run them in service.
Should the electrical coupling software be flawless, march is more realistic. If its not, how long is a piece of string?
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Post by Chris M on Dec 3, 2019 0:35:30 GMT
She is the ultimate optimist. Or a month ahead of herself. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 3, 2019 6:57:19 GMT
Except, there will be no driver training this year and the first software drop including electrical coupling is being readied shortly.. when it does there may be several iterations after that to iron out issues. She is the ultimate optimist. You’lll also need several drivers trained to run them in service. Should the electrical coupling software be flawless, march is more realistic. If its not, how long is a piece of string? It's a clever political response. She only said they'd be running.......that would include out of service testing as well. |
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Post by ashlar on Dec 3, 2019 9:37:23 GMT
Ah well. Did seem a little too good to be true but I
look forward to seeing more trains in testing and training on the route!
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Post by nopixar on Dec 3, 2019 9:51:59 GMT
Ah well. Did seem a little too good to be true but I look forward to seeing more trains in testing and training on the route! They’ll get there. Let’s see how the next version of the software settles in and then will have a better idea of when a realistic timeframe for entry into service will be on WA. Training has been put off no less than six times already this year because of this. |
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Post by peterc on Dec 3, 2019 10:37:35 GMT
Except, there will be no driver training this year and the first software drop including electrical coupling is being readied shortly.. when it does there may be several iterations after that to iron out issues. She is the ultimate optimist. You’lll also need several drivers trained to run them in service. Should the electrical coupling software be flawless, march is more realistic. If its not, how long is a piece of string? It's a clever political response. She only said they'd be running.......that would include out of service testing as well. That was how I read it too |
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Post by lukeo on Dec 3, 2019 19:18:54 GMT
Decided to take the Watford DC line today and my train was a (5 car) 378. I saw another 378 too, so I guess there’s no more than 6 710s running the line.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 4, 2019 7:46:46 GMT
Ah well. Did seem a little too good to be true but I look forward to seeing more trains in testing and training on the route! They’ll get there. Let’s see how the next version of the software settles in and then will have a better idea of when a realistic timeframe for entry into service will be on WA. Training has been put off no less than six times already this year because of this. At least this time the existing trains on the WA branches aren't up for leasing elsewhere so services won't be disrupted like they were on the Gospel Oak-Barking section. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Dec 4, 2019 8:11:47 GMT
...for now.
Many of us are bracing ourselves for carnage, to be honest. The class 317s aren't PRM-TSI compliant (meaning they can't be used after the end of the year without a derogation, which doesn't seem to have been granted?) and the class 315s are rapidly running out of miles to overhaul - there's a small buffer of displaced TfL Rail units but those are also limited by the rollout of the class 345s on Crossrail.
It's all a bit of a mess, which could have been avoided (like most railway problems there's been a distinct lack of forward planning).
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