Class 710 Delivery / Entry to Service

Modern seat design is not something that can be blamed on the EU. It's a combination of fireworthiness requirements (mostly homegrown), DfT specifications (to varying degrees) and providing more than the lowest costing minimally-acceptable passenger comfort not being seen as providing a commercial* advantage.

*In the case of the IEPs directly specified by the DfT it could be argued that the advantage not seen is political rather than commercial, but this is not a debate the forum moderators would welcome.

This may be true, however at least if there is a fire on the train then you won't be burnt to death when the seat catches fire as it would previously.

Recognising this is wandering off topic, but whatever may be said in the popular or even railway press, it is not the fire standards required that lead to hard seats. This is myth. S stock and 2009 tube stock seats have to meet at least the same standard as class 378 and class 710 and the LU seats are reasonably soft. The real reason is because a hard seat is a few £s cheaper and partly it's that the management a***-ometer isn't being used at the design stage with the supplier told to "do better" if the seats are too hard!

There's also an issue of perception. The seats have reasonably thick cushions and look as though they should be reasonably soft, until you sit on them!

Yes the A stock seats were sprung. I miss them. The S stock is not uncomfortable but it’s not great (when you get a seat!).

Returning to topic....

I was surprised to see longitudinal seating like the Class 378 Capitalstars. I assume the Chingford (etc) stock will be the same?

Traveled on them today. Air con is powerful enough to be comparable to the frozen section of a supermarket! The enhanced acceleration means at the moment, trains dwell for a couple of mins. The speed restriction on the bridge past Walthamstow Pump house has been lifted so it’s great to race across Walthamstow Wetlands.

Wheelchair space is elsewhere.

For me these new trains are 'as expected'. As a general theme neither especially good nor bad. It was already known that they would have tube train style seating, similar to the 345's, air-conditioning, rock hard seats, etc.

I noted both Euston - Watford and GOBLIN route maps above the passenger doors.

The passenger information system uses the similar horrible 'new style English' as the Class 345's. I wish the messages were differently worded, were they scripted by someone from overseas? USA? - I much preferred what I heard on Northern Rail services in Yorkshire.

I am astonished that the USB power sockets are only at the coach ends, it means that for many passengers the choice will be between being seated or using the USB - only a lucky few passengers with longish cables will be able to use USB power and remain seated, hoping that standing passengers on a swaying train do not fall against the USB sockets and damage the cables / sockets / hurt themselves.

I prefer the multi user space to be at the train ends, rather than in the middle - which is often more crowded. That said, it also makes space for more rush hour crush loads. I think its Taiwan where they even have trains with end coaches that are dedicated to standing passengers - instead of folding seats there are handrails!

I can see mothers with children in pushchairs and bikers using these spaces, and arguments if passengers want to use the USB. I wanted to get a good view of the area near the cab but almost as soon as the train doors opened (at Barking) a schoolboy dashed in and took one of the seats. I think that for my internal photos I need to see one of these trains at Gospel Oak, as they will be less busy and have better light coming in through the windows.

These trains are supposed to have wifi - anyone tested it?

The only feature that I especially like is the on-train information displays; these the same as those on the TFL Rail trains and are sorely needed to replace the old fashioned orange LED displays on the S Stock trains - especially the S7's on the Circle, District and Hammersmith & City lines which have two different sets of paper route maps that often confuse unwary visitors (even a single S7 map showing these three lines would represent a vast improvement on the awful present situation!)

What the new Class 710 trains do not have are end doors at the train driver's cabs. This is not an issue for most services, but as far as I am aware it makes them illegal for routes that have single bore tunnels - the law that bans trains without end doors explains why the Class 717 trains on the route via the Northern City Line have emergency evacuation end doors and also why the Metropolitan Railway had to cancel its planned deep level tube tunnels relief lines (and three new stations) from the Kilburn area below Edgware Road to the enlarged station called Edgware Road.This law also affected the DLR when the Bank branch was built. I am baffled how this law does not seem to affect Watford DC line services which also pass through single bore tunnels.

What about the single bore tunnels that are near Primrose Hill taking the Watford DC under the Up and Down Fasts? Surely those are way too narrow to have side walks.

The side walking section is within guidelines..

I think that is the common understanding based on that horribly confused TfL Board paper that sought authority for extra class 710s to be ordered. I wonder if Bombardier have "done a deal" to add a freebie train to the order to cover the Romford - Upminster shuttle? I can see that being beneficial to TfL, Arriva and Bombardier. None of them will really want a sole 315 at Ilford depot to look after / use long term.

I had always understood these were because of the Hampstead Heath tunnel. The 416s (2EPBs) which replaced the 501s on the North London Line but not the Wat-Eus, also had the window bars

I have seen a comment on another forum citing "next month". Jonathan Fox, of TfL Rail (not the MTR operating company), said on the Geoff Marshall video that the 3rd train is dependent on driver training progress. At present they don't have enough trained drivers to be able to reliably cover the extra train remaining in service. I'm unclear about the nature of the 710 course as I keep seeing different things being said about it and I don't know how much is "at the wheel" on a train and how much is in depot / on the simulator. All I do know is that the 3Zxx training runs on the GOBLIN have been rather sporadic over the last week but I imagine all the effort was about getting trains into passenger service.

As an aside a train has failed in service today leaving only 4 units in service for the morning. Looks like it has been replaced now. The use of 2Gxx train ID codes seems to have been abandoned today so it's hard to spot the 710 workings between the 378s.

Whilst I have been lucky enough to hear Mr Fox's keyboard skills, I'm fairly confident you're confusing him with John Foxx.

It means nothing to me... oh, Vienna has a boring U-Bahn.