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Post by snoggle on May 15, 2019 16:36:51 GMT
But does that saving take into account the lost revenue, (including the promised free travel) the cost of replacement buses, the conversion of three 378s to 4-car and the cost of running them (including the lack of maintenance cover, and the suspension of the refurbishment programme) All perfectly fair comment. Bombardier will be covering the free travel scheme however that ends up being framed. I'd not be shocked if Bombardier have covered the cost of the 4 car conversion under an existing maintenance contract. I also doubt that Bombardier or Arriva are being hit under their respective contracts for carrying out a client instruction to operate the train fleet to tighter margins than are normally expected. I've certainly read somewhere that the performance regime on the Overground has effectively been suspended. I expect the refurbishment programme suspension has been a negotiated variation and I doubt it is having much of an impact in terms of passenger ambience issues. There clearly *are* problems with the 378s' reliability as I've seen various reports of trains with multiple door failures, there was a serious train failure near Wembley Central earlier this week and there are gaps in the NLL service where stock is clearly not available. |
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Post by stapler on May 15, 2019 17:47:21 GMT
When are the 710s for Chingford/Enfield etc due? presumably not for a year or so now till the Goblin ones have been thoroughly debugged?
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 15, 2019 19:34:47 GMT
When are the 710s for Chingford/Enfield etc due? presumably not for a year or so now till the Goblin ones have been thoroughly debugged? On the contrary, once the bugs are ironed out the essentially identical units for EnfChing and the WatEus should be able to follow fairly quickly, although they will need to be cleared for multiple running (8 car trains) on the former and 3rd rail operation (for the latter) |
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Post by snoggle on May 15, 2019 22:30:08 GMT
When are the 710s for Chingford/Enfield etc due? presumably not for a year or so now till the Goblin ones have been thoroughly debugged? I haven't seen anyone speculate about a timescale for the AC only versions. As already mentioned there are two specific ORR restrictions which need resolution and presumably a fair amount of testing - running on DC power and then running in multiple. I assume Bombardier are taking an approach of (a) get the GOBLIN trains into service on AC only as quickly (ahem) as possible followed by (b) testing a unit or units on DC tracks to accumulate sufficient evidence for compliance sign off *or* to make yet more software modifications if testing throws up more issues. I assume the West Anglia units will have to start delivery (assuming there is space for a few of them) so that they can start testing on West Anglia metals. So far I don't believe one has yet reached Chingford for some reason. They have made it to Enfield and Cheshunt on limited runs so far. I expect the testing will have to include multiple operation - again to build up enough evidence to demonstrate compliance against whatever requirements have to met. What I don't know is whether any units are whizzing about up north to try to build up mileage or if testing is constrained to Old Dalby. I believe a fair number of 710s are stored at Crewe but I don't know for certain. There are only so many tweets and forum posts I can absorb at any one time.  I suspect it is near to impossible to set any sort of realistic timescales for these remaining activities. As Dazz285 said in another post only one train has software version 33 on it and that will need a fair bit of testing to see if it is stable and fixes the things that have to be fixed before Arriva and ASLEF are happy. We just have to hope that it does. At some point, goodness knows when, Bombardier will have to get Class 710s off conditional approval and on to full approval. However I understand other classes of train that are in regular service are also still on conditional approval - GWR's IEPs are one example. I think the GTR Class 700s is another but not 100% certain on that. Siemens are still modifying the 700's software to help build reliability further. I suspect Bombardier will be doing this for a fair while too when they finally get 710s into passenger service. |
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Post by nopixar on May 15, 2019 23:48:18 GMT
When are the 710s for Chingford/Enfield etc due? presumably not for a year or so now till the Goblin ones have been thoroughly debugged? I haven't seen anyone speculate about a timescale for the AC only versions. As already mentioned there are two specific ORR restrictions which need resolution and presumably a fair amount of testing - running on DC power and then running in multiple. I assume Bombardier are taking an approach of (a) get the GOBLIN trains into service on AC only as quickly (ahem) as possible followed by (b) testing a unit or units on DC tracks to accumulate sufficient evidence for compliance sign off *or* to make yet more software modifications if testing throws up more issues. I assume the West Anglia units will have to start delivery (assuming there is space for a few of them) so that they can start testing on West Anglia metals. So far I don't believe one has yet reached Chingford for some reason. They have made it to Enfield and Cheshunt on limited runs so far. I expect the testing will have to include multiple operation - again to build up enough evidence to demonstrate compliance against whatever requirements have to met. What I don't know is whether any units are whizzing about up north to try to build up mileage or if testing is constrained to Old Dalby. I believe a fair number of 710s are stored at Crewe but I don't know for certain. There are only so many tweets and forum posts I can absorb at any one time. I suspect it is near to impossible to set any sort of realistic timescales for these remaining activities. As Dazz285 said in another post only one train has software version 33 on it and that will need a fair bit of testing to see if it is stable and fixes the things that have to be fixed before Arriva and ASLEF are happy. We just have to hope that it does. At some point, goodness knows when, Bombardier will have to get Class 710s off conditional approval and on to full approval. However I understand other classes of train that are in regular service are also still on conditional approval - GWR's IEPs are one example. I think the GTR Class 700s is another but not 100% certain on that. Siemens are still modifying the 700's software to help build reliability further. I suspect Bombardier will be doing this for a fair while too when they finally get 710s into passenger service. There have been provisions made in the May - December diagrams to allow 710s to stay at Chingford including moving a few units to stable at Enfield during the day. There isn’t a date but nothing will happen until the works at Chingford yard are complete which they are not to accommodate 710s...AVIS, maintenance Road and a new signal. The training role vacancies only closed a few days ago so it’s some way off yet...Also 710s have been to Chingford a few times. |
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Post by greatkingrat on May 16, 2019 20:37:24 GMT
Current plan is to start a limited passenger service towards the end of next week (subject to clearances being received). These will be in addition to the half hourly 378s currently running.
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Post by greatkingrat on May 17, 2019 0:34:35 GMT
The 0633 from Barking is currently a 378, so don't think that will be the first 710 in service.
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Post by ashlar on May 17, 2019 12:30:00 GMT
The 0633 from Barking is currently a 378, so don't think that will be the first 710 in service. You are correct. He deleted that tweet so probably realised. Still - exciting that things might be finally about to move. |
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Post by dazz285 on May 17, 2019 14:35:07 GMT
Final software testing has been carried out on the Gobs with 710262 & I will keep you guys updated on how it went.
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Post by spsmiler on May 17, 2019 23:57:48 GMT
I saw one being tested today - alas I was on a bus approaching Leytonstone High Road station as it crossed the railway bridge over the road - so I do not have any photographic evidence. I was peeved, because I had hoped to be on a station platform and to film it.
This was at 11.27am.
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Post by dazz285 on May 18, 2019 13:01:44 GMT
So, fingers crossed, apart from a P.I.S. database issue all went well & the plan is to run 2 units between the 3 class 378's for the time being starting from either Wednesday or Thursday. As soon as I get any timings I'll pass it on.
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Post by dazz285 on May 18, 2019 13:25:23 GMT
Possible Gospel Oak & Barking departure times..
07.09uh - 07.48 --- uh = Upper Holloway
-------- 08.18
08.35 - 09.18
09.05 - 09.48
10.05 - 10.48
10.36 - 11.18
11.36 - 12.18
12.05 - 12.48
13.05 - 13.48
13.35 - 14.18
14.35 - 15.18
15.05 - 15.48
16.05 - 16.48
16.35 - 17.18
17.35 - 18.18
18.05 - 18.48
19.05 - 19.48
19.35 - 20.18
20.34 - 21.20
21.05 - 21.48
No gurantee on these running times.
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Post by snoggle on May 20, 2019 20:29:13 GMT
Looks like the 2 extra 710s will be in passenger service from Wednesday onwards. The extra journeys are now showing in Realtimetrains. They are easily identified with a 2Gxx train ID rather than the normal 2Jxx. They run from around 0700 to 2200. Time to get trodden in the crush of rail photographers and others out for a ride on them on Wednesday.  Next weekend is showing as x15 minute service but I rather suspect that will change between now and then. |
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Post by silenthunter on May 20, 2019 20:30:17 GMT
When's the free month starting then?
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Post by spsmiler on May 20, 2019 20:34:26 GMT
When is the fourth train starting on Euston - Watford?
oops, sorry, for a moment I forgot that they are not yet cleared for DC services.
btw, I actually came here to share the good news, but I was pipped at the post - by one minute!
dazz285 has more info than me - all I knew was what I copied below:
I wasn't planning in going out with my camera this week, as I have a lot of bedding plants to place out in the garden. Ah well.
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Post by spsmiler on May 20, 2019 20:39:01 GMT
When's the free month starting then? an uninformed guess would be after they have been proven reliable enough for the 378s to be withdrawn from this route |
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Post by goldenarrow on May 20, 2019 20:41:37 GMT
When's the free month starting then? Once the new trains are fully introduced. Communication of how this will work in practice is still being worked on. |
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Post by snoggle on May 21, 2019 20:32:17 GMT
I have seen comment on another forum that the 710s will not be in passenger service tomorrow (22/5). This is apparently due to non handover of ORR paperwork to Arriva.  It is therefore probably prudent for anyone wishing to go snapping or riding new trains to check something like Realtimetrains tomorrow to see what is actually going on. |
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Post by ashlar on May 22, 2019 13:50:20 GMT
Launch confirmed for tomorrow:
Gospel Oak to Barking Line Update
I’m very pleased to let you know that the first of the brand new four-car electric trains will enter passenger service on the Gospel Oak to Barking line tomorrow, Thursday 23 May 2019.
This is the first step towards returning the service on this line to the regular timetable of four trains per hour, boosting capacity and reliability. The new electric trains, built by Bombardier Transportation in Derby, will carry almost 700 people, doubling the capacity of the old diesel trains that were previously operating on the line, and improving air quality along the route.
As you know, issues with software development on the new trains resulted in delays to their introduction. However, they have now been approved by the rail regulator for passenger service on this line. Two of the new trains will start on the line this week, in addition to the modified electric trains that have been used as an interim measure since January. The new trains will allow us to run additional services on weekdays and weekends to complement the current two trains per hour interim timetable.
Together with the London Overground’s operator, Arriva Rail London, we will monitor the new trains closely as they enter service to ensure they operate reliably. Once we are satisfied there are no operating issues, more trains will be put into service and it is expected the regular 15 minute frequency will be restored later in the summer.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience the situation has been causing to our customers and thank them for their patience. We will be offering a month of free travel for customers on this line from September to show our appreciation. This was secured by the Mayor and is being funded by Bombardier Transportation. We will provide more detail on how this will work closer to the time.
If you have any questions, please do get in touch.
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rincew1nd
Administrator
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Post by rincew1nd on May 22, 2019 15:31:39 GMT
It's even on their Twitter so must be real |
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Dom K
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The future is bright
Posts: 1,831
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Post by Dom K on May 22, 2019 15:39:34 GMT
I’m planning to have a ride on Friday!
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Post by superteacher on May 22, 2019 18:58:22 GMT
I’m planning to have a ride on Friday! We expect photos . . . I'll grab a ride next week during half term! |
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Post by silenthunter on May 22, 2019 19:48:12 GMT
I'm working next week, but I'll try for the following week.
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
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Post by rincew1nd on May 22, 2019 21:01:35 GMT
It's even on their Twitter so must be real I'm not going to breach forum rules by giving away the times of the first two trains that are alluded to in the tweet from the Overground. In completely unrelated matters, Gospel Oak station not long before noon or not long after is a lovely place to grab a brew and watch the trains go by, you might even want to go for a ride |
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rincew1nd
Administrator
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Post by rincew1nd on May 23, 2019 10:31:16 GMT
I told you just before noon was a good time |
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 23, 2019 12:11:15 GMT
Written on board a 710. Had begun to think I'd never be able to write that sentence!
When was the last time two new classes of train entered service within a month of each other? (Class 230 was less than a month ago, I believe)
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Post by londonboi1985 on May 23, 2019 19:53:40 GMT
Saw it at barking earlier couldn’t get a picture as I was in the bay road |
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Post by spsmiler on May 25, 2019 8:02:09 GMT
I got to ride one yesterday, erm, the USB socket provision is somewhat minimal - 8 sockets by inter-car connections, 4 on the drivers cab back wall plus some at the wheelchair area.
Therefore for most passengers being seated and connecting to the USB will be mutually exclusive choices!
Photos to come....
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Post by superteacher on May 25, 2019 8:07:37 GMT
I'm assuming that they have the same rock hard seats as the 345's?
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Post by ashlar on May 25, 2019 10:07:20 GMT
I'm assuming that they have the same rock hard seats as the 345's? New trains have hard seats because they are new. They soften up. I bet A-stock seats were hard back in the day... |
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I suspect it is near to impossible to set any sort of realistic timescales for these remaining activities. As Dazz285 said in another post only one train has software version 33 on it and that will need a fair bit of testing to see if it is stable and fixes the things that have to be fixed before Arriva and ASLEF are happy. We just have to hope that it does. 
