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Post by Chris L on Jul 13, 2021 10:16:16 GMT
Can these still be afforded? Whilst its one thing to replace old existing trains, will passenger numbers justify also increasing the overall fleet? Little choice if you consider the number of homes being built alongside the DLR.
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Post by Chris M on Jul 13, 2021 11:09:16 GMT
Yes, more trains are very much needed. There are a phenomenal amount of homes being built in the Royal Docks and more on the way on the Isle of Dogs too. Even though we're not fully recovered from Covid the trains can be full and standing at busy times.
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 13, 2021 21:00:52 GMT
OK, thanks. Of course it makes sense to build the houses near the railway and the increase in passenger journeys will hopefully have a very positive effect on the balance sheet.
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Post by grumpycat on Jul 14, 2021 13:21:08 GMT
Seems with the first coaches now on they're bogies hopefully it won't be long until the first one gets sighted. Are they gonna test it in Spain with a pantograph or third rail?if
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Post by grumpycat on Jul 14, 2021 15:47:58 GMT
OK, thanks. Of course it makes sense to build the houses near the railway and the increase in passenger journeys will hopefully have a very positive effect on the balance sheet. Aswell as that passenger numbers will start to increase due to covid restrictions being eased and people coming back to public transport
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Post by jimbo on Jul 15, 2021 7:55:56 GMT
This is an order for 33 replacement trains and 10 additional trains. For an update on projected demand see current P&I committee papers link page 55 of 98. Housing Infrastructure Funding will pay for another 14 trains to meet demand from planned housing developments. Updated demand projections will use the 43 trains on order, and at least 11 of the 14 prospectively on order, with the probability that all will be needed!
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Post by Chris L on Jul 15, 2021 12:49:53 GMT
There will also be money raised by the proposed decking over of Poplar depot to allow housing to be built above it.
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Post by 100andthirty on Jul 15, 2021 14:21:00 GMT
With such deep corner pillars compared with the existing trains I wonder how that impacts sighting of the PTI in what on LUL would be called OPO Mirrors? This is already an issue with the existing trains as a ride in the "driver's seat" as a passenger will testify. Quite how they will manage with a narrower windscreen and sitting further back is a mystery to me. Perhaps the PSA is supposed to look out of the side window.
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Post by grumpycat on Jul 15, 2021 22:35:39 GMT
Are the new trains classified yet as e.g B24?
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Post by Chris M on Jul 16, 2021 0:10:59 GMT
I've seen it reported on another forum that the designation B2023 was used in an internal document, I don't know if that's the (final) official designation or not. To my knowledge nothing public-facing has mentioned a designation.
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Post by t697 on Jul 16, 2021 6:15:28 GMT
With such deep corner pillars compared with the existing trains I wonder how that impacts sighting of the PTI in what on LUL would be called OPO Mirrors? This is already an issue with the existing trains as a ride in the "driver's seat" as a passenger will testify. Quite how they will manage with a narrower windscreen and sitting further back is a mystery to me. Perhaps the PSA is supposed to look out of the side window. I seem to recall this wasn't the only train bid with this potential issue. It was recognised, but I wonder what's being done. Maybe PSA head/eye position adjustment is acceptable and sufficient. Difficult to be sure you are seeing the whole train length in a mirror if you are not viewing at an optimised position though. Or maybe there will be new mirrors/monitors? Perhaps someone in the know will comment.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 26, 2021 0:46:54 GMT
The new DLR trains feature a similar driving position to current trains. The ”Driverless trains on London Underground” report, dated August 2020 and leaked to ASLEF in late October ( link ), made a case for retaining current modern operating methods on LU. It claimed the current secure cab environment allows staff to concentrate on their job free from distraction by customers. It also mentions that at peak times and on more crowded parts of the DLR, the Train Attendant now performs duties from the front control panel, to manage the increased safety risks now being experienced. And yet they are not to be given a secure cab environment for safe working! see video
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Post by 100andthirty on Jul 26, 2021 13:48:11 GMT
The new DLR trains feature a similar driving position to current trains. The ”Driverless trains on London Underground” report, dated August 2020 and leaked to ASLEF in late October ( link ), made a case for retaining current modern operating methods on LU. It claimed the current secure cab environment allows staff to concentrate on their job free from distraction by customers. It also mentions that at peak times and on more crowded parts of the DLR, the Train Attendant now performs duties from the front control panel, to manage the increased safety risks now being experienced. And yet they are not to be given a secure cab environment for safe working! see videoThe new train mock up shows similar features to those on all new trains over the last few years. That the driver sits further back from the windscreen than before and, in this case the pillar on the left hand side is bigger and the front window is narrower. The view of the mirrors (mostly) and monitors (occasionally) isn't very good on the existing trains and a feel for the PSAs who have to manage closing the doors safely from this position. Unless some sort of in cab OPO/DOO CCTV system is to be fitted, I really don't see how this aspect of the new trains will work. The cynic in me saw the sliding panel that closes off entry into the driving position and wondered what the staff representative's opinion might be.
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Post by brigham on Jul 27, 2021 8:10:03 GMT
Time to drop the pretence that DLR trains are 'driverless', perhaps, and give the driver proper facilities.
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Post by 100andthirty on Jul 27, 2021 8:27:40 GMT
Time to drop the pretence that DLR trains are 'driverless', perhaps, and give the driver proper facilities. Bearing in minf that I haven't travelled on DLR for more than 18 months........ for the overwhelming proportion of the total journeys, the Passenger Services Agent (PSA) is free to roam around the train allowing the PSA to check the PTI and close the doors from any platform side door on the train. This gives the PSA the best possible view of the platform, and a view that is MUCH, MUCH better than is available from the driving position. In my opinion the current DLR mirrors and monitors are not fit for purpose.
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Post by Chris L on Jul 27, 2021 9:11:08 GMT
Time to drop the pretence that DLR trains are 'driverless', perhaps, and give the driver proper facilities. Bearing in minf that I haven't travelled on DLR for more than 18 months........ for the overwhelming proportion of the total journeys, the Passenger Services Agent (PSA) is free to roam around the train allowing the PSA to check the PTI and close the doors from any platform side door on the train. This gives the PSA the best possible view of the platform, and a view that is MUCH, MUCH better than is available from the driving position. In my opinion the current DLR mirrors and monitors are not fit for purpose. With COVID-19 DLR trains have been operated from the front with the first pair of doors closed off. This is still the case. Hopefully this will end soon with the PSAs walking through the trains.
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Post by Chris M on Jul 27, 2021 11:15:32 GMT
At peak times, the PSA cannot move freely through the train as there is not enough space to do so. At other times they are required to operate from the front so they can observe the line ahead (first service of the day, when staff are working on or near the line, in high winds and at other times as directed by control). While on the existing stock the front driving position is not the most ergonomic there is no issue I am aware of with visibility of monitors/mirrors. At Bank, despatch is required to be from the front set of doors but this is (AIUI) due to the inadequacy of the view provided by the monitors rather than an inadequate view of the monitors. Obviously I've not seen the new stock, but in the renders I have seen it is not at all obvious that the view will be worse than the current stock. Indeed if it were I would have thought that the design would not have been given approval.
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Post by 100andthirty on Jul 27, 2021 11:43:23 GMT
Obviously I've not seen the new stock, but in the renders I have seen it is not at all obvious that the view will be worse than the current stock. Indeed if it were I would have thought that the design would not have been given approval. I agree, it does seem strange, but from my wanderings over a significant proportion of the DLR back in 2018 , I had cause to check out the view of the mirrors and monitors and a large proportion left much to be desired. I would have judged them barely adequate for occasional use. Perhaps they've been improved. As I said earlier, I haven't been out on the DLR for 18 months!
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Post by t697 on Aug 5, 2021 17:54:56 GMT
Obviously I've not seen the new stock, but in the renders I have seen it is not at all obvious that the view will be worse than the current stock. Indeed if it were I would have thought that the design would not have been given approval. I agree, it does seem strange, but from my wanderings over a significant proportion of the DLR back in 2018 , I had cause to check out the view of the mirrors and monitors and a large proportion left much to be desired. I would have judged them barely adequate for occasional use. Perhaps they've been improved. As I said earlier, I haven't been out on the DLR for 18 months! I've been told there is an enabling project tasked to improve/modify PTI mirrors/monitors for use with the new trains, taking account of the sighting cones available from the so-called Emergency Driving Position. Not an easy task there eh!
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Post by 100andthirty on Aug 6, 2021 6:53:10 GMT
I agree, it does seem strange, but from my wanderings over a significant proportion of the DLR back in 2018 , I had cause to check out the view of the mirrors and monitors and a large proportion left much to be desired. I would have judged them barely adequate for occasional use. Perhaps they've been improved. As I said earlier, I haven't been out on the DLR for 18 months! I've been told there is an enabling project tasked to improve/modify PTI mirrors/monitors for use with the new trains, taking account of the sighting cones available from the so-called Emergency Driving Position. Not an easy task there eh! I remember such a study for the Victoria Line Upgrade. As a result platform cameras and cab monitors were fitted to the new trains. Part of the problem identified in the study was that the existing mirrors and monitors had to remain suitable for the old trains whilst the new trains needed slightly different stopping positions. I can see this issue being replicated on DLR
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Post by jimbo on Aug 6, 2021 7:40:44 GMT
I've been told there is an enabling project tasked to improve/modify PTI mirrors/monitors for use with the new trains, taking account of the sighting cones available from the so-called Emergency Driving Position. Not an easy task there eh! I remember such a study for the Victoria Line Upgrade. As a result platform cameras and cab monitors were fitted to the new trains. Part of the problem identified in the study was that the existing mirrors and monitors had to remain suitable for the old trains whilst the new trains needed slightly different stopping positions. I can see this issue being replicated on DLR It will be on the Picc, and was for S stock on the 4LM.
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Post by 100andthirty on Aug 6, 2021 9:53:43 GMT
I remember such a study for the Victoria Line Upgrade. As a result platform cameras and cab monitors were fitted to the new trains. Part of the problem identified in the study was that the existing mirrors and monitors had to remain suitable for the old trains whilst the new trains needed slightly different stopping positions. I can see this issue being replicated on DLR It will be on the Picc, and was for S stock on the 4LM. Drifitng off topic, LU's standard approach of on platform cameras and in cab monitors will continue on the Piccadilly - Panasonic ADL division is the contractor if I recall correctly. Although that problem is solved, LU will still have to do thorough surveys to identify the work necessary to optimise the stopping position with respect to constraints on hump location and starter signals. I'm expecting to see a number of starter signals having to be moved. Indeed there may have to be temporary arrangements at some locations whilst both old and new trains are running. This was necessary for S stock.
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Post by grumpycat on Aug 28, 2021 11:14:24 GMT
Any new updates on the new trains yet?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 28, 2021 12:16:00 GMT
Any new updates on the new trains yet? Three trains are nearing completion. Ground works for new sidings in Beckton depot have begun
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Post by grumpycat on Aug 28, 2021 15:20:42 GMT
Any new updates on the new trains yet? Three trains are nearing completion. Ground works for new sidings in Beckton depot have begun very nice, has the first train finished by any chance? also any new pics of the units?
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Post by Chris L on Aug 28, 2021 17:59:40 GMT
Any new updates on the new trains yet? Three trains are nearing completion. Ground works for new sidings in Beckton depot have begun I thought it was much more than just new sidings.
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Post by 100andthirty on Aug 28, 2021 18:33:02 GMT
Three trains are nearing completion. Ground works for new sidings in Beckton depot have begun I thought it was much more than just new sidings. The works at Beckton are indeed more extensive that "new sidings", but some of the new sidings need to be completed to release space for other work.
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Post by grumpycat on Sept 14, 2021 16:31:36 GMT
Any new updates on the trains? Hoping there's something good since it happens nearly every time I do thread bumps
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Post by jimbo on Oct 7, 2021 19:28:01 GMT
DLR rolling stock manufacture is underway, with the initial series run of 20 car bodies for the first four five-car trains being in production. Cars 1 to 3 are now complete. Train 1 is due to be ready for static testing in December 2021, and dynamic testing is due to commence in 2022. Completion of the project is forecast in 2026. [TfL Investment Programme Report - Quarter 2 2021/22 (30 May – 21 August 2021).]
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Post by jimbo on Nov 17, 2021 3:10:51 GMT
Rolling stock manufacturing is underway with the first four trains out of the 43 train order in production. The first train is now assembled and ready to begin static testing. This strategic milestone was achieved two months ahead of programme. TfL have now finalised terms for the acquisition for the land at Beckton adjoining the current depot to accommodate a further 11 trains funded by the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. [Finance Report – Period 7, 2021/22 - 1 April to 16 October 2021 p.33/76] The Programmes and Investment Committee on 21 July 2021 were told that the 11 extra trains could be as many as 14, but looks like funding uncertainty has settled on the minimum 11.
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