Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 19, 2017 10:04:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 0:27:11 GMT
Surely the new DLR formations could work as they used to have a single unit when the line opened but now its 3x units coupled to make a combined 1 unit train but I think if it does happen with 6 carriage trains it would probably be like ADM+UNDM+T+T+UNDM+ADM
Key:
Automatic driving motor (ADM)
Unpowered Driving motor (UNDM)
Trailer (T)
It would help the PSA get around the train though
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 4, 2017 9:21:35 GMT
it would probably be like ADM+UNDM+T+T+UNDM+ADM Key: Automatic driving motor (ADM) Unpowered Driving motor (UNDM) Trailer (T) Interesting that the second and fifth vehicle will have a driving position and apart from the end vehicles, no others are powered. |
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Post by Chris M on Sept 4, 2017 10:00:34 GMT
I don't think that a six-car train with only two powered vehicles would be permitted to run on the DLR, even if it could theoretically cope with the gradients. There are several 6% (1:37) gradients on the DLR (including the tunnel out of Bank), and this post on a modelling forum notes that normally 2/3 axles, but a minimum of 1/3rd are required so that a failed unit can be pushed out if required. I believe that single units of the current design are not permitted to run to Bank for this reason. |
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 4, 2017 16:17:55 GMT
Single units have been to Bank, as many years ago I filmed a single unit train there. I think it was B90 No.28. Surely the new DLR formations could work as they used to have a single unit when the line opened but now its 3x units coupled to make a combined 1 unit train but I think if it does happen with 6 carriage trains it would probably be like ADM+UNDM+T+T+UNDM+ADM Key: Automatic driving motor (ADM) Unpowered Driving motor (UNDM) Trailer (T) It would help the PSA get around the train though I am mystified, how can there be an unpowered driving motor? Surely if it is unpowered there would be no point in it also having a motor - or will it use some hitherto unknown technology? Simon |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 4, 2017 17:04:47 GMT
I don't think we should give much crecedence to what @metalhead11000 thinks the formation "would probably be like".
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 4, 2017 17:04:59 GMT
I haven't seen anything to suggest such a weird formation, though if someone has a source it would be good to get a link? I should have thought 6 car trains would have the majority of bogies motored, probably be articulated, and not have driving controls provided apart from at the ends. This would suggest a DM=m=m=m=m=DM formation.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 4, 2017 17:31:57 GMT
the new trains will definitely be walk-through articulated single six-car units (like S stocks and Class 378s).
The current units have three bogies of two axles each for each articulated car, the outer bogies are powered and the centre one unpowered (I think), so effectively DM-(t)-DM with the trailer shared between the DMs or something like Bo'2'Bo' in UIC notation.
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Post by 100andthirty on Sept 4, 2017 21:34:01 GMT
Chris M an all..... Pedant alert...... S stock, class 378 have wide walk though gangways but are not articulated.
Current DLR cars are articulated at the shared trailer bogie. Bogie spacing is currently about 10m. This works well on the very tight radius crossovers on the main line and the numerous points in the depots. Longer vehicles would lead to narrower bodies. Overgangs beyond the bogies are incompatible with open wide gangways because of the tight curves on the railway. This indicates something like an 8 car, 9 bogie train with approx. 14m end cars (with overhangs at the outer ends like current cars) and 10m intermediate cars. Expect at least 6 motor bogies. Of course it all depends on what the suppliers offer!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 21:16:32 GMT
Single units have been to Bank, as many years ago I filmed a single unit train there. I think it was B90 No.28. Surely the new DLR formations could work as they used to have a single unit when the line opened but now its 3x units coupled to make a combined 1 unit train but I think if it does happen with 6 carriage trains it would probably be like ADM+UNDM+T+T+UNDM+ADM Key: Automatic driving motor (ADM) Unpowered Driving motor (UNDM) Trailer (T) It would help the PSA get around the train though I am mystified, how can there be an unpowered driving motor? Surely if it is unpowered there would be no point in it also having a motor - or will it use some hitherto unknown technology? Simon Sorry for confusing you i do say confusing stuff so the undm would be a unit like that of what they use on the tube |
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Post by domh245 on Sept 24, 2017 21:36:20 GMT
I am mystified, how can there be an unpowered driving motor? Surely if it is unpowered there would be no point in it also having a motor - or will it use some hitherto unknown technology? Simon Sorry for confusing you i do say confusing stuff so the undm would be a unit like that of what they use on the tube AIUI, the "U" in tube formations stands for uncoupling, not unmotored (which is indicated by a T for trailer), ie it has an auto coupler on the end so that it can split at that point (as opposed to a bar coupler which requires depot attention to split), and has a simplified driving position to enable it to be driven around the depot for uncoupling and shunting purposes. If it is a fixed formation walk through train, there is little point in uncoupling cars mid train. I think a better description for your formation would be M1-M2-T-T-M2-M1, where M1 is a motored leading car, M2 is a motored trailing car, and T is a standard trailer car. A more conventional tube style layout (D stock for example) would be M1-T-M2-M2-T-M1, but the current trend for high performance units is for 100% motored axles. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 25, 2017 13:49:55 GMT
In LT circles, it seems to be the norm (or was until the 92stock) that:
M - Driving motor (Cab, coupler, motors)
T - Trailer
NDM - Non driving motor (motors, but no cab and no auto-couplers)
UNDM - Uncoupling non-driving motor (motors, auto-coupler, no cab)
CT - Control Trailer (Cab, no motors)
UT - Sometimes used to denote a trailer with an autocoupler at the end, ie C stock
On the big railway, and the Met, it was slightly different, and there are many codes to describe attributes of carriages within a multiple unit. However, in general:
DM - Driving Motor
M - Motor (ie, non driving)
DT - Driving Trailer (same as control trailer)
Nowadays, with all motored formations, it has become more useful to distinguish between different types of equipment provision. So M1,2,3, etc...
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Post by 100andthirty on Sept 25, 2017 19:15:41 GMT
I think we can all be pretty confident that none of this will apply to the DLR new trains.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 25, 2017 19:52:19 GMT
Indeed, new stock will be formed of single walk-through, probably at least partially articulated, vehicles with at least a majority of axles motored. The only significant questions are whether there will be any unpowered axles and how many permanently attached cars there will be in each vehicle. The latter will be obvious when the first artists impressions are released, but we may need to wait a little longer to find out the former.
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Post by flippyff on Nov 3, 2017 22:15:35 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Nov 17, 2017 16:22:35 GMT
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Post by 100andthirty on Nov 17, 2017 19:26:30 GMT
Very expensive trains based on TfL's £500m to £850m estimate!
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Post by snoggle on Nov 18, 2017 0:37:36 GMT
Very expensive trakns based on TfL's £500m to £850m estimate! IIRC the contract is a form of lease and maintain deal over a long period of time hence the potential contract value. TfL haven't actually got enough money in the budget to buy these as capital assets. Pretty sure that was in a recent paper or business plan or some such document. |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 4, 2018 21:32:49 GMT
As the old thread for DLR rolling stock has been locked I'm posting this but it would make sense for it to be moved to old thread if unlocked by the forum Admins. <<superteacher - done>>
The lastest Programmes and Investment Cttee papers, for 11 December 2018 meeting, include a paper for the new DLR trains.
content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20181211-public-pack.pdf
See page 193 of the papers (page 199 of the pdf).
Base order is 43 new trains (33 replace older B90/92 trains and 10 for growth) with options for another 34. Design would be three cars long but walk through as per XR and S Stock designs.
There is a network diagram showing possible future service levels if the full fleet was ordered. There are some pretty impressive frequencies shown - 22½ tph on the Stratford International branch for example. What isn't shown are the possible new stations or extension to Thamesmead. |
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Post by fleetline on Dec 31, 2018 23:26:45 GMT
Very expensive trakns based on TfL's £500m to £850m estimate! IIRC the contract is a form of lease and maintain deal over a long period of time hence the potential contract value. TfL haven't actually got enough money in the budget to buy these as capital assets. Pretty sure that was in a recent paper or business plan or some such document. Also includes Depot works I believe that will push the price up. |
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Nov 20, 2020 20:26:16 GMT
IanVisits has today published a post [here] on CAF's 1:1 mock-up of the new DLR stock. (If possible, could mods move the thread into the locked, original New DLR rolling stock thread please) |
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Post by grumpycat on Jun 28, 2021 11:23:05 GMT
Apologies if an already existing thread has been started but any updates on the new stock? I know some bodyshells have been built but any new stuff?
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Post by xplaistow on Jun 28, 2021 15:01:32 GMT
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 28, 2021 16:19:07 GMT
There is this article in Modern Railways from April, but as I'm not a subscriber I can only read the first two paragraphs which don't convey any new information. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 12, 2021 17:03:00 GMT
mock-up for new Stock, (also in another video the first car has been mounted on it's bogies for the first time)
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Post by grumpycat on Jul 13, 2021 1:28:07 GMT
mock-up for new Stock, (also in another video the first car has been mounted on it's bogies for the first time) Which video has the bogies being mounted to the carriage? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 13, 2021 5:19:53 GMT
Which video has the bogies being mounted to the carriage? CAF haven’t uploaded this publicly yet    ©CAF 2021 |
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Post by t697 on Jul 13, 2021 6:43:05 GMT
With such deep corner pillars compared with the existing trains I wonder how that impacts sighting of the PTI in what on LUL would be called OPO Mirrors?
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Post by Chris L on Jul 13, 2021 7:05:56 GMT
Not enough poles for standing passengers and the horizontal handrails are too high for many people.
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 13, 2021 10:06:54 GMT
Can these still be afforded?
Whilst its one thing to replace old existing trains, will passenger numbers justify also increasing the overall fleet?
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