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Post by thinlizzy on Dec 6, 2023 23:38:00 GMT
Vehicle 38 was taken away for scrapping on Monday night along with one other- not sure which as I haven't seen any photos and have not been to Beckton depot for a while.
I believe vehicle 211 will be the next B23 to arrive in the coming weeks
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Post by Chris M on Dec 7, 2023 0:21:08 GMT
I've seen a photo on Facebook of unit 88 on the back of a lorry at South Mimms last Friday, but that is the unit reported as being converted to a dedicated depot shunter, so may not be headed for scrap.
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 7, 2023 22:01:43 GMT
I've seen a photo on Facebook of unit 88 on the back of a lorry at South Mimms last Friday, but that is the unit reported as being converted to a dedicated depot shunter, so may not be headed for scrap. A works vehicle ... added interest for future railway modellers! |
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Post by thinlizzy on Dec 8, 2023 14:06:24 GMT
I've seen a photo on Facebook of unit 88 on the back of a lorry at South Mimms last Friday, but that is the unit reported as being converted to a dedicated depot shunter, so may not be headed for scrap. I believe 88 has been replaced by a specific shunting "thing." Not sure of the best way to describe it other than a piece of plant on wheels that is remote controlled to move the bits of B23 around |
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Post by Chris L on Dec 8, 2023 19:26:06 GMT
I saw a convoy of trucks carrying a train in the very long queue at the Dartford Tunnel this afternoon.
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 8, 2023 22:14:28 GMT
I suppose that wheel profiles prevent these being delivered by train via the Channel Tunnel?
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Post by Chris M on Dec 8, 2023 23:18:02 GMT
The DLR is not connected by rail to any other network so there would need to be a lorry trip as part of a journey anyway which probably significantly impacts the economics of using the Channel Tunnel, even if the wheel profile poses no issues and they are otherwise within gauge (I don't know). I imagine that there would also be requirements to register them as approved rail vehicles (with all the paperwork and expense that entails) that will probably not be otherwise necessary for vehicles confined to a non-interoperable network like the DLR.
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Post by thinlizzy on Dec 9, 2023 0:14:40 GMT
The DLR is not connected by rail to any other network so there would need to be a lorry trip as part of a journey anyway which probably significantly impacts the economics of using the Channel Tunnel, even if the wheel profile poses no issues and they are otherwise within gauge (I don't know). I imagine that there would also be requirements to register them as approved rail vehicles (with all the paperwork and expense that entails) that will probably not be otherwise necessary for vehicles confined to a non-interoperable network like the DLR. absolutely this- once in the UK, the units would then have to be taken apart to be loaded into lorries. As each carriage in the unit is joined using a semi-permanent coupler a suitable location would be needed to break the unit up into 5 parts again |
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 9, 2023 17:38:36 GMT
Oh well, what seemed like a good idea has been proven unworkable
Thanks anyway for the replies.
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Post by ijmad on Dec 10, 2023 20:32:39 GMT
I would imagine the DLR's unusual bottom contact shoegear would pose a problem if it were dragged through any third rail areas as well. I seem to recall someone on another forum compared a technical diagram of a B07/B09 and a 378 to see if it would ever be possible to share track and I think concluded they were entirely incompatible.
Though these might be easy to temporarily remove, I suppose?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 11, 2023 12:40:56 GMT
I believe vehicle 211 will be the next B23 to arrive in the coming weeks 211 arriving by road into Beckton depot today, after some sections stored for weekend at West Ham bus garage! |
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Post by jimbo on Dec 11, 2023 19:12:22 GMT
Haven't seen a number for the second train to arrive. Is there a logic to the order of delivery?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 11, 2023 19:41:19 GMT
203 was mentioned in this thread 5 June.
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Post by Chris L on Dec 12, 2023 16:19:28 GMT
I believe vehicle 211 will be the next B23 to arrive in the coming weeks 211 arriving by road into Beckton depot today, after some sections stored for weekend at West Ham bus garage! I assume in the TfL part of the site. |
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Post by Chris M on Dec 12, 2023 19:32:22 GMT
A photo I saw on Facebook said it was the TfL part.
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Post by DWS on Dec 12, 2023 21:00:11 GMT
A photo I saw on Facebook said it was the TfL part. What other outfit are on the site ? |
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Post by thinlizzy on Dec 12, 2023 21:09:34 GMT
Haven't seen a number for the second train to arrive. Is there a logic to the order of delivery? I just think it's whichever one has been signed off and is ready for delivery. |
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Post by Chris M on Dec 13, 2023 1:34:20 GMT
A photo I saw on Facebook said it was the TfL part. What other outfit are on the site ? Stagecoach, or more precisely their subsidiary East London Buses. |
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Post by A60stock on Dec 13, 2023 14:40:22 GMT
The DLR is not connected by rail to any other network so there would need to be a lorry trip as part of a journey anyway which probably significantly impacts the economics of using the Channel Tunnel, even if the wheel profile poses no issues and they are otherwise within gauge (I don't know). I imagine that there would also be requirements to register them as approved rail vehicles (with all the paperwork and expense that entails) that will probably not be otherwise necessary for vehicles confined to a non-interoperable network like the DLR. Is there not a connection around the Stratford area? From the GEML? Nor one between the C2C lines and the DLR around the area where they run parallel to each other? |
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Post by thinlizzy on Dec 13, 2023 15:22:40 GMT
The DLR is not connected by rail to any other network so there would need to be a lorry trip as part of a journey anyway which probably significantly impacts the economics of using the Channel Tunnel, even if the wheel profile poses no issues and they are otherwise within gauge (I don't know). I imagine that there would also be requirements to register them as approved rail vehicles (with all the paperwork and expense that entails) that will probably not be otherwise necessary for vehicles confined to a non-interoperable network like the DLR. Is there not a connection around the Stratford area? From the GEML? Nor one between the C2C lines and the DLR around the area where they run parallel to each other? There are no connections from DLR to National Rail infrastructure |
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Post by Chris M on Dec 13, 2023 15:30:52 GMT
No, the DLR is a completely isolated system. There wouldn't be any benefit to a connection, only diesel or battery trains could run on both systems due to the DLR's unique-in-the-UK bottom-contact third rail power supply. Even if the loading gauge is compatible (which given the unusual 1000m platform height seems unlikely) most mainline stock would be too heavy (remember it's a light railway) and unable to negotiate the tight corners and steep gradients. In the other direction, the DLR units would, at least, need their pickup shoes removed to be hauled anywhere on the mainline even if they are otherwise compatible with the loading gauge.
Given that all maintenance, including heavy maintenance, is carried out at/from Beckton and Poplar, a link would be only rarely used anyway.
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Post by ijmad on Dec 13, 2023 18:15:45 GMT
There was obviously a connection between the North London Line and what is now the loop under Westfield Stratford, but that was lifted when the NLL was cut back to the high level platforms and the DLR took over those tracks for the Stratford International route.
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Post by Chris M on Dec 13, 2023 20:25:02 GMT
There was never a connection there (or anywhere else). The North London Line was diverted to it's present platforms, the old formation was rebuilt and then the DLR was extended from Canning Town to Stratford International.
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Post by ijmad on Dec 14, 2023 0:53:58 GMT
There was never a connection there (or anywhere else). The North London Line was diverted to it's present platforms, the old formation was rebuilt and then the DLR was extended from Canning Town to Stratford International. Sorry I may have written that poorly, I simply meant the lines were connected when the NLL was running to Woolwich, not after it became DLR. |
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Post by 100andthirty on Dec 21, 2023 15:08:38 GMT
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Post by ijmad on Jan 8, 2024 22:59:30 GMT
Saw one of these in person finally. They are really nice looking in my opinion. Amazing how 'grown up' they look too, the DLR has come a long way from its 1980s roots as a light rail system based on tram technology. These really look like proper metro trains, almost like a teal coloured S-Stock.
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Post by brigham on Jan 10, 2024 8:58:15 GMT
The downside of articulation is inflexible fixed rakes. The downside of two-bogie cars is added cost and weight.
The new stock combines the two!
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Post by 100andthirty on Jan 10, 2024 18:31:14 GMT
The downside of articulation is inflexible fixed rakes. The downside of two-bogie cars is added cost and weight. The new stock combines the two! It's not that simple. There was a requirement not to increase the load on some of the bridges that are to light rail standards despite DLR growing up to be effectively a metro. Therefore the wwight of the 5-car train wasn't allowed to be increased. Then there was the additional kit in the form of air conditioning. The current three, twin car trains have nine bogies, the new train has 10. Not a big increase. I expect that a fully walk though articulated train would probably have had 10 bogies. DLR went out to competitive tender for tese trains. They have never announced the design of the unsuccessful bid; it would be inappropriate to do so, but I suspect that some of the competition offered articulated trains. Finally, whether articulated or not, most modern trains are "inflexible fixed rakes". Every coach in a rake as a place and every coach has to be in its place. |
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Post by burkitt on Jan 10, 2024 22:38:52 GMT
I was told at an IMechE lecture on the new DLR trains that of the three bidders - CAF, Bombardier and a Siemens/Stadler consortium, only one proposed an articulated train. I would guess it was the latter.
I've also been told that during post contract award design with with CAF, articulated configurations were looked at again but rejected.
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Post by brigham on Jan 11, 2024 8:31:40 GMT
It IS that simple. An articulated fixed-rake of five has SIX bogies, the new five-car trains have TEN.
The weight penalty is clear, even without the addition of extra cooling kit.
By some financial sleight-of-hand, heavier trains were somehow cheaper!
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