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Post by snoggle on Feb 23, 2016 11:41:13 GMT
Yep the Elizabeth Line. Can't say I'm impressed or pleased. To me it's Crossrail and always will be.
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Post by Chris M on Feb 23, 2016 12:11:23 GMT
That's a heck of a lot of signage they'll have to redo then. There are several signs at TCR with "Crossrail" behind stickers for example.
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Post by phoenixcronin on Feb 23, 2016 12:13:14 GMT
To say I'm unimpressed is an understatement. Crossrail is much easier on the tungue and also makes more sense as it actually describes what it does.
Also calling it the "Elizabeth line" makes it harder to distinguish from an ordinary tube line, e.g. Jubilee.
Just no no no
Edit: the only saving grace is if they call it the Elizabeth for official/ceremonial purposes but for operational purposes still keep Crossrail e.g. Roundels, signs, "change here for Crossrail"
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Antje
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Post by Antje on Feb 23, 2016 12:21:31 GMT
I think TfL is drunk.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Feb 23, 2016 12:33:05 GMT
Agreed. Disappointed is the biggest understatement of the year. What on earth is going on?
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Post by theblackferret on Feb 23, 2016 12:41:40 GMT
Don't forget the Jubilee Line was originally meant to be the Fleet Line, but that got hijacked for Liz, too.
Though in that case, the blame was purely political brown-nosing by the then-GLC leader.
I have to say, when we are talking elsewhere about Crossrail 3 on here, leaving the original as Crossrail is maybe not on anyway.
Pity they didn't make this decision a year ago and they should have run a competition to name it-if Elizabeth had come out on top, fair enough.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 23, 2016 12:51:42 GMT
Also calling it the "Elizabeth line" makes it harder to distinguish from an ordinary tube line, e.g. Jubilee. To all intents and purposes it should be seen as just that - albeit built to main line gauge like the Met, District etc. Two years before opening seems to be standard practice for renaming a line - cf Jubilee. Will she come back in 2018 for the official opening, or delegate that to her son as she did the Jubilee Line? The Queen is actually older than the Northern Line Extension - the one to Morden! Now, how about names for the Overground lines? For XR2, how about the Palace Line (as in Alexandra, Buckingham, Nonsuch, and Hampton Court, all to be served by it. (If the Balham Bulge gets any bigger, we might be able to add Crystal to that list!) Just to confuse matters the Standard reports that the Shenfield line will be called Crossrail from "next May" - not clear whether that means 2016 or 2017, but presumably the latter when the 345s start to appear, only taking the Elizabeth name when trains actually start to cross London at the end of 2018. (Initially only from Abbey Wood, I would guess the Shenfield services would only be renamed in 2019 when they are plugged in to the core in 2019 - nevertheless it will have had four names in as many years - Greater Anglia, TfL Rail, Crossrail, and Elizabeth.) Not clear whethger the Heathrow Connect services will be rebranded in may 2018 when tfL rail/Crossrail takes them over, or when they are plugged in to the core. www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/crossrail-named-the-elizabeth-line-royal-title-unveiled-as-the-queen-visits-bond-street-a3186791.html
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 23, 2016 13:08:16 GMT
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Post by phoenixcronin on Feb 23, 2016 13:11:24 GMT
I wonder if the beancounters who came up with this imagined how weird this sounds, at least to me: "This is an Elizabeth Line train to Abbey Wood" Just doesn't sound right
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Post by trt on Feb 23, 2016 13:15:22 GMT
Are we going to have a mainline terminus named "Elizabeth" then? Or maybe Windsor Line would be more tongue pleasing as well as retaining some geographical sense.
Although, I think I'll start a rumour that it was named in memory of Elisabeth Sladen. I wish it was, anyway. Or should that be reserved for the Aberdeen to South Croydon line?
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Post by stapler on Feb 23, 2016 13:23:37 GMT
Perhaps Londoners will just call it the Lizzie Line - that has a certain euphony. After all, that's more or less what they did with the Bakerloo.
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Post by Alight on Feb 23, 2016 13:32:58 GMT
I had a horrible feeling this would happen. There have been rumours for a number of years from colleagues over at Crossrail (1), but I always brushed it off and said that it would never happen. I am of the opinion that ‘Crossrail’ should be distinct from the London Underground lines, which follow a ‘X line’ convention. Besides, ‘Elizabeth Line’ doesn’t have much of a ring to it.
As others have already pointed out, all those vinyls that have gone up (e.g. at TCR) are going to have to go! Renaming is an expensive process. Even just renaming the Fleet line to Jubilee line cost £50,000 alone (in 1977 prices)!
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Post by John Tuthill on Feb 23, 2016 13:33:37 GMT
Agreed. Disappointed is the biggest understatement of the year. What on earth is going on? It's not the 'enigma wrapped up in a whatsit' but a sycophant wrapped up in a knighthood
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Post by trt on Feb 23, 2016 13:41:41 GMT
For XR2, how about the Palace Line (as in Alexandra, Buckingham, Nonsuch, and Hampton Court, all to be served by it. (If the Balham Bulge gets any bigger, we might be able to add Crystal to that list!) As it will run between Enfield and Surrey, and portmanteau words are quite popular, the 'Enry Line. As in King 'Enry. 'Enry Tudor... Tudor line! Yay! Pity they settled on Elizabeth instead of Windsor then. Could have had Stewart, Wessex, Saxe-Coburg, Lancaster, etc. for future use.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 23, 2016 13:50:53 GMT
I hope you're not suggesting that Prince Harry (official name Henry) has designs to usurp his nephew's and niece's places in the succession. The last person to try that move came to a sticky end under a Leicester car park.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 23, 2016 13:57:36 GMT
Are we going to have a mainline terminus named "Elizabeth" then? Or maybe Windsor Line We already have the "Windsor Lines" out of Waterloo. It is quite common to name transport infrastructure after the reigning monarch or events in their reign - see the QE2 Bridge, Jubilee Line, Golden Jubilee Bridge. But as no London terminus has been opened since 1899, there has been no scope to name any of them after any monarch except Victoria (who actually gave her name to quite a few stations , e.g Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham, Southend). (The only London terminus not opened in Victoria's reign was London Bridge)
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Post by Chris W on Feb 23, 2016 14:05:35 GMT
The Guardian front page headline referred to this as the.... Lizzy Line ?? Although the main article doesn't repeat this, instead using the term Elizabeth Line.
What might re name Crossrail 2..... the Charlie Line??
Crossrail 3.... the Willy Line??
There are also so many things referred to using the term Elizabeth or Queen Elizabeth... Park, Tower, Pier, Theatre.... the LIST is quite long.
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Post by Antje on Feb 23, 2016 14:31:38 GMT
After that debacle, we might as well call Crossrail 2 and 3 the Helena Debain and Chuck Norris lines for all I care:
1. Constantly use the same easy to remember name for years. 2. Suddenly change the name to something hard to remember. 3. ? ? ? 4. PROFIT !!!
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Post by uzairjubilee on Feb 23, 2016 14:40:10 GMT
Renaming the line achieves absolutely nothing and will most likely come at an unreasonably high cost.
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Post by Chris M on Feb 23, 2016 14:52:57 GMT
Renaming the line achieves absolutely nothing and will most likely come at an unreasonably high cost. That depends on your perception of "unreasonable". For me, spending more than about £10k at absolute most on it is unreasonable. For someone like Boris, £10bn is probably reasonable.
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Post by stapler on Feb 23, 2016 14:54:19 GMT
And if the service is not up to what it should be, the Lizzie Line will soon become the Lousy Line!
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Post by pgb on Feb 23, 2016 15:15:36 GMT
Renaming the line achieves absolutely nothing and will most likely come at an unreasonably high cost. Bit like the monarchy then? Maybe it should have be named "QE Tube"?
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Post by blackhorsesteve on Feb 23, 2016 15:16:14 GMT
Too many syllables. Although 'Liz Line' does have a nice ring to it. Don't know what was wrong about 'Crossrail' though, something tells me TfL have too much money, I'll be lobbying for cheaper fares next January.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 23, 2016 15:20:57 GMT
Barret Browning? Fry? (as on the £5 note) Bennet? (as in Pride & prejudice) Taylor? Sladen? (Betty) Boothroyd? (Lizzie) Dripping
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Post by North End on Feb 23, 2016 15:21:40 GMT
Yep the Elizabeth Line. Can't say I'm impressed or pleased. To me it's Crossrail and always will be. I think this is a terrible decision. In principle I have nothing against the name, however the issue is that it sounds like an Underground line. Crossrail is fundamentally different to the Underground - it's designed and built on a larger scale, it's more of an express service (in central London, ironically the opposite will be true on the runs out to Reading and Shenfield), and its boundaries go much further than any Underground line. Naming it up as a pseudo-Underground line, especially using a name with no geographical or conceptual linkage to the route, does not draw attention to any of these differences. The name Crossrail sounds just right, I can't see any real benefit in going to the expense of changing it. Perhaps "Elizabeth Line" should have been kept in the back pocket for if/when the Northern Line gets split? :-)
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Post by John Tuthill on Feb 23, 2016 15:25:47 GMT
After that debacle, we might as well call Crossrail 2 and 3 the Helena Debain and Chuck Norris lines for all I care: 1. Constantly use the same easy to remember name for years. 2. Suddenly change the name to something hard to remember. 3. ? ? ? 4. PROFIT !!! 3. ? ? ?=Knighthood. "And for a baronetcy or Lordship ma'am, we can put a branch line in to Buck house, and one at Windsor for the castle."
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Post by snoggle on Feb 23, 2016 15:30:34 GMT
Too many syllables. Although 'Liz Line' does have a nice ring to it. Don't know what was wrong about 'Crossrail' though, something tells me TfL have too much money, I'll be lobbying for cheaper fares next January. I doubt TfL had much say in this. This will be a political thing given Boris has suggested it more than once. While changing signage is not great shakes I do wonder whether things like signalling system designs, asset management systems etc which almost certainly will have been predicated on being called "Crossrail" will have to be changed or whether this is purely a public branding exercise? If it's not the latter then the contractors will be licking their lips at the prospect of contract variations which will, of course, (sucks teeth) be a bit pricey. You know how it is!. The double irony is that there is an American lady called "Elizabeth Line" who's taken to Twitter!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 15:47:35 GMT
Why not call it the 'Crossrail Elizabeth' line? Makes more sense to me.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 23, 2016 15:54:01 GMT
Crossrail is fundamentally different to the Underground - it's designed and built on a larger scale, it's more of an express service (in central London, ironically the opposite will be true on the runs out to Reading and Shenfield), and its boundaries go much further than any Underground line. It is actually rather like the Metropolitan Line in many respects. Larger scale? Both use Main line sized trains Express? Number of stations in Zones 1-3 ten Further out? Reading is not much further out than Chesham, and if you include the Watford and Amersham lines there is probably more Metropolitan mileage outside Greater London than there is Crossrail/Lizzie
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 16:08:37 GMT
I can't say I am impressed with this. Why do we have to have a name at all? The whole point of Crossrail is that at last and with quite some delay given the various plans over the years, London will have an East-West through line similar to the S-Bahn, Cercanias, RER etc in other European countries. This should be built into a network and therefore should have a sensible numbering scheme. What is hard with Crossrail, with the first line then being Crossrail 1, next one Crossrail 2, etc? That also differentiates it from the Underground and will make it clear for visitors that we are talking about a different service. Of course I am leaving out Thameslink, which remains as such when modified. Part of me thinks it would makes sense from a network perspective to have that as a "Crossrail" branded line too, even though the routes served will be long and wide ranging when the upgrades are done. I appreciate that is part of the NR network and run by a TOC, but there is precedence in Paris for a brand being used across operators/networks, with RER A using both RATP and SNCF track and having various branches to it, albeit not going as far out of Paris as Thameslink does out of London.
So in summary, why are we not thinking of a sensible brand i.e. Crossrail and network of lines reflecting what it stands for such as Crossrail 1, 2, 3, etc.
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