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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 24, 2016 8:47:50 GMT
I'm fairly sure the drugs squad would have something to say about that suggestion Chris W ! My gripe with "The Elizabeth Line" is that it's nigh on impossible to pronounce after ten pints.It comes out like "Lllllllllzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbt"  |
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Post by flippyff on Feb 24, 2016 9:08:08 GMT
"On today's episode of <Insert name of current children's TV railway based program>....
Lizzie the 'lectric train sits down at Paddington and refuses to change signalling modes until The Fat Controller has a word.
Don't forget kids, you can re-enact this yourselves by purchasing the Lizzie the 'lectric train set from the LT Museum for only £399.99"
"
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Post by humbug on Feb 24, 2016 10:20:07 GMT
"My gripe with "The Elizabeth Line" is that it's nigh on impossible to pronounce after ten pints.It comes out like "Lllllllllzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbt" " Which (to drag politics into this, which as I understand is a completely banned topic in these parts) would be almost 50% over your weekly government reduced approved alcohol limit  [/p]
www.drinkaware.co.uk/check-the-facts/what-is-alcohol/new-government-alcohol-unit-guidelines
Mod Edit. I've edited your quoting as it was displayed wrong. DomK |
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Post by theblackferret on Feb 24, 2016 11:12:29 GMT
Just a small caveat for supporters of the Charlie Line to bear in mind:
When he becomes King, he will be King George VII. As a result of promises to the late Queen Mother.
Unless the Monarchy gets sold off first to any foreign bidder, in which case, we may have more problems.
And I suspect this decision makes some commercial sense for attracting tourists, because where's the first place they all make for-ANYTHING to do with our monarchy.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 24, 2016 12:32:59 GMT
When (sic) he becomes King, he will be King George VII. As a result of promises to the late Queen Mother. he becomes king - there have been several cases where the reigning monarch has outlived the heir apparent. Plenty of precedents for choosing a different regnal name, including George VI and Edward VII, both of whom were known as Prince Albert before they succeeded to the throne, but I don't think here has been any official announcement. Although extraordinary lengths can be gone to in order to secure the succession - notably in the reigns of HenryVI, Henry VIII, Queen Anne, and after the death of George III's only grandchild, it is not seemly to actually anticipate the death of the current monarch - "Long May She Reign" and all that. But it would make a useful sequence for future history students to remember the 20th and 21st century monarchs: Edward, George, Edward, George, Elizabeth, George, William, George. If the Duke of Cambridge (Prince William Arthur Philip Louis) could only be persuaded to use a regnal name beginning with E as well............. |
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Post by trt on Feb 24, 2016 13:09:40 GMT
Given the fad for naming babies after monarchy... George might make a comeback after all. Still it's hard to tell if all the Katies are after Middleton or Price.
NB. We CANNOT have a Katy Line.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 15:13:04 GMT
Strictly speaking Crossrail will not be run by the urban metro operator (I assume you mean TfL). It's contracted out like every other National Rail service. It's just that TfL write the specification. It will be, on the new section, and remain, on the old ones, a National Rail service no matter what it is called. Paris has three models of operation - "A" run by RATP, "B" run by RATP and SNCF with operation split at Gare du Nord, "C", "D" and "E" all run by SNCF IIRC. Of course this ludicrous sychophantic decision could open up all sorts of issues. It will be the first service on the National Rail network identified by a person's name. In the rare instances where there are familiar names for lines or services it tends to be geographic (East Coast Main Line) or possibly harking back to the pre-grouping operator (Great Western). There may be some bits of local marketing using local names (e.g East Anglia rural lines) but I can't think of a NR service named after a person. (I'm sure I'll be duly corrected). So are TfL now going to inflict stupid person based names on us for the rest of the Overground network rather than doing the logical thing of using the old historical names? Will any transferred lines south of the Thames also be tainted by stupid branding? Will every Mayor from now on be tempted to name a rail route 10 weeks before they quit office?  Questions, questions. And imagine being a poor sap who has to make announcements for a future Elizabeth Line Crossrail service. That's going to get wearing isn't it? The only National Rail service I can readily think of is the Robin Hood Line (Nottingham-Worksop), and even that is tenuous as the name is also used widely to refer to the general area. Agree with everything you say. Overground is a strange concept in that it's quite clearly National Rail, especially where it shares the same routes, but TFL goes to great lengths to pretend it's not. This works satisfactorily on a completely self-contained route, but I see it being a nuisance where other services operate - the result being disjointed timetables and ticket arrangements, and some awkward situations - like Cheshunt where one all-stations to Liverpool Street train is Overground and another is National Rail. Whether all this really matters is open to debate, but arrangements where routes are segregated along political lines rather than operational are not efficient, and probably ultimately not best for passengers either (I strongly suspect Southeastern could end up being a mess in this respect). If anything Elizabeth Line undersells Crossrail as being just another Underground line. I'm surprised TFL have chosen to do this to be honest, but then again I think you're right and it may have been imposed on them. It doesn't look right on the roundel, and it will be the only 'line' to have its own roundel and colour scheme. Maybe we'll get used to it. The points re National Rail are precisely the point for me and why the way it is done in other cities is the point. As TfL spec the service (something in itself which can be debated but let's park that there as it is en vogue at present), there is nothing to stop it setting up a clear brand and route structure in line with RER, S-Bahn etc. The various S-Bahn systems are more familiar to me and there of course you have DB on the whole operating the service within the local zonal fare structure and with a different local transport operator mainly in charge of the underground, buses, etc. e.g. in Munich - S-Bahn München (part of DB) and then MVG as the local bus/tram/underground operator (plus other bus operators under contract further out from the city centre).
For me we have just messed up an opportunity to have a clear network with clear branding that is user friendly and clearly explains what it is - that is key to any transport system. It is a railway line through the city, not an underground line etc and it needs a system name to reflect that.
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Post by theblackferret on Feb 24, 2016 16:01:11 GMT
If he becomes king - there have been several cases where the reigning monarch has outlived the heir apparent. but I don't think here has been any official announcement. Yes, mostly in the mediaeval period though, with the most recent example being Prince Albert Duke of Clarence, first son of Edward VII, who died even before his father became King, hence why George V then became heir apparent. Given the Queen Mother passed the 100, Charles could indeed end up acceding at the age of 80, but I suspect he'll get the gig anyway. There most certainly has not been any official announcement about that, but the sources from whence I've gleaned that are varied enough for me to suspect it is the case. Those sources have one very important thing in common-none of them are internet-based, hence why I believe it is the case. On the announcement itself, like it or not, there has to be something the casual user (ie tourists, mainly) can readily identify with, in order to fill trains all day, every day, to make it pay. And, if that point be accepted as a valid operational and administrative one, how does Crossrail compare to the name of England's longest-reigning monarch. If the service, trains etc in 2018 genuinely transpire to be something different to what has gone before, then it may justifiable to brand the service accordingly. However, this should have been announced at least a year ago, and preferably back in 2012 to celebrate the Diamond Jubilee. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 24, 2016 17:46:45 GMT
there have been several cases where the reigning monarch has outlived the heir apparent. the most recent example being Prince Albert Duke of Clarence, first son of Edward VII, who died even before his father became King, hence why George V then became heir apparent. I'd forgotten that one. Many monarchs had firstborns who died in infancy. Of adult examples, Richard II and George III both succeeded their respective grandfathers, and Henry VIII and Charles I both had older brothers who predeceased their fathers without issue. Queen Victoria also outlived her eldest child by a few months, but Princess Victoria (the Dowager Kaiserin of Germany) had several brothers so was not the heir apparent when she died. |
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Post by stapler on Feb 24, 2016 18:22:24 GMT
Bit of thread drift here, I think!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 19:02:56 GMT
Am I correct to assume that the network will still be called Crossrail but the individual lines will be given names.
This should mean that the signs outside the stations will have Crossrail on them while the maps and the signs in the stations will have the name of the lines on them.
This is what happens with the Underground
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londoner
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Post by londoner on Feb 24, 2016 21:44:42 GMT
I am still distraught.
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Post by Chris W on Feb 24, 2016 22:12:44 GMT
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Antje
侵略! S系, でゲソ! The Tube comes from the bottom of London!
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Post by Antje on Feb 25, 2016 0:41:37 GMT
I still don't get this: it makes the brand structure so out of place. We already have two brands for trains on Network Rail territory, and now they have misaligned the structure (e.g. Transport for London > London Underground > Victoria line).
The Victoria line got away with it easily because it served the termini of the same name. Jubilee was so-so, but somewhat regained its reputation when it finally failed to cross the Fleet river but go via the Docklands instead.
Elizabeth line on Crossrail: I have no idea what is the nearest and most obvious point of interest in Central London to do with the renaming – not even Centre Point.
And then there are lots of other political stuff that I can't go into for this forum.
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 25, 2016 1:32:57 GMT
Am I correct to assume that the network will still be called Crossrail but the individual lines will be given names. This should mean that the signs outside the stations will have Crossrail on them while the maps and the signs in the stations will have the name of the lines on them. This is what happens with the Underground This is what I am hoping will be the case. But until line 2 is open we will never know, and the chances are that although I'm 'only' 56 I still wont be around long enough to see the birth of the Chelney Line. If Crossrail can have lines in this way, why cant the DLR or Overground? Simon |
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Post by class411 on Feb 25, 2016 10:36:32 GMT
I hope you're not suggesting that Prince Harry (official name Henry) has designs to usurp his nephew's and niece's places in the succession. The last person to try that move came to a sticky end under a Leicester car park. I think he came to a sticky end, but I very much doubt it was under a car park.  |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 25, 2016 11:21:31 GMT
I think he came to a sticky end, but I very much doubt it was under a car park. Well, that's where they found him, a couple of years ago www.le.ac.uk/richardiii/ |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 25, 2016 11:42:27 GMT
I think he came to a sticky end, but I very much doubt it was under a car park. Well, that's where they found him, a couple of years ago www.le.ac.uk/richardiii/I think the car park may have been laid a while after he died. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 25, 2016 11:57:08 GMT
I think the car park may have been laid a while after he died. Well, it would have been a bit odd to bury him there before he died! |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 25, 2016 12:49:03 GMT
I think the car park may have been laid a while after he died. Well, it would have been a bit odd to bury him there before he died! Downright rude, I'd say. On the topic of the line name, I was running through various other Monarch names, and none of them seemed to work. "George Line", "William Line", "Anne Line", etc. On the other hand, Victoria does. I don't think it's just a matter of familiarity - I think it's because there is a place called 'Victoria', and one closely associated with the line. I agree that 'Elizabeth Line' is quite naff. If they want to honour HMtQ, they should either call it something along the lines of "Queen Elisabeth Line", "Elisabeth the Second Line" or the "QE2 Line (sounds a bit maritime)", and let the public decide how to abbreviate it to a usable name. |
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Post by trt on Feb 25, 2016 14:11:23 GMT
I was amused by the news of that America woman, Elizabeth Line. I do so hope she has a daughter called Victoria. And twin boys called Hammersmith and City, but that's pushing the boundaries of probability a bit.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 25, 2016 14:46:27 GMT
On the topic of the line name, I was running through various other Monarch names, and none of them seemed to work. "George Line", "William Line", "Anne Line", etc. On the other hand, Victoria does. . Georgian Line and Edwardian Line sort of work, as would, I think, Regency Line. What about Royal houses - what about Tudor, Stuart, Norman, Plantagenet(may be not!), Saxe-Coburg-Gotha ( certainly not !!!) And maybe it's just me, but some of the royal princesses of present and recent times look like they would work - Alexandra (also a Queen Consort, of course), Charlotte, Beatrice, Eugenie, Princess Royal (I agree the Anne Line doesn't really work). Maybe a Margaret Line would be too likely to be associated with a certain political figure. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Feb 25, 2016 14:53:36 GMT
I was amused by the news of that America woman, Elizabeth Line. I do so hope she has a daughter called Victoria. And twin boys called Hammersmith and City, but that's pushing the boundaries of probability a bit. She could have twin sons called Mason & Dixon though? |
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Post by bassmike on Feb 25, 2016 15:44:42 GMT
What about the "Ginger" line?--- (work it out!)
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Post by brigham on Feb 25, 2016 17:49:29 GMT
isn't the place called 'Victoria' also named after the old Queen, though?
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 25, 2016 18:22:34 GMT
isn't the place called 'Victoria' also named after the old Queen, though? There are one hell of a lot of places named after her! I've no idea what people thought about naming a place using just the name of a person way back then. But we accept 'Victoria' as a place and so it does not seem odd to name a line that goes through that place (or starts/ends there) with the location. I haven't researched it yet, but it's quite possible that they named some feature (e.g. Victoria Embankment) after the queen, and the area around it took that name. Does anyone think 'Elizabeth' (Or George, Margaret, Kenneth), sounds 'right' for a railway line? No one who's posted here seems to think it does. Everything I can think of named after HM the Q is named 'Queen Elizabeth'; nothing is plain 'Elizabeth'. |
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Post by phoenixcronin on Feb 25, 2016 18:32:33 GMT
Am I correct to assume that the network will still be called Crossrail but the individual lines will be given names. This should mean that the signs outside the stations will have Crossrail on them while the maps and the signs in the stations will have the name of the lines on them. This is what happens with the Underground I would have thought so as well but the mockups published show that the insane people running this racket have decided to use "Elizabeth Line" on roundels and stations etc, which normally only display the name of the network e.g. Underground/Overground. Perhaps the mock up artist wasn't fully briefed when he/she started his Photoshop work, although judging from some of the dodgy quality it seems that half of the work was done on Paint. |
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Post by brigham on Feb 25, 2016 18:47:39 GMT
Port Elizabeth is named after an Elizabeth. Elizabeth Way in Seaton Carew is named after the present Queen. William Street near where I live is named after King William IV,(and runs parallel to, but not as grandly as, Prince Regent Street, named for his big brother).
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Post by theblackferret on Feb 25, 2016 18:54:59 GMT
isn't the place called 'Victoria' also named after the old Queen, though? The station is named from being in Victoria Street, which in turn was named after the monarch. But the district in which it sits is, as it was when Victoria opened in 1860, Pimlico. |
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 26, 2016 23:28:44 GMT
Because of the change in name I've had to update my "Railfanning London's Railways" web pages. I've kept Crossrail in the group of page names for mainline trains and although I refer to it as the Elizabeth Line I don't make the mistake of calling it a tube line! citytransport.info/Cross1.htmI thought that I might as well also create a new page about Crossrail line 2... and use the name Chelney! Plus add a few comments which represent my own point of view. citytransport.info/Cross2.htmSimon |
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[/p]
Questions, questions. 
