rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286 
|
Post by rincew1nd on Aug 28, 2016 17:22:12 GMT
I've just stumbled upon this BBC Three show about the first weekend: bbc.in/2bR8mIi |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 22:21:16 GMT
Wouldn't the DVA systems on the trains need to be updated for the night tube as well? I imagine that wouldn't be much of an issue on the Victoria line. I was surprised to hear London Overground suspended announcements from the DVA. I'm sure it's pretty easy to remove interchange lines from the code. The central probably took a lot more work. Either that or the driver will do most of the announcing. But that's all pure speculation on my part. I guess it's all about how the DVA systems are programmed. They can probably be programmed to stop announcing certain interchanges at night time. |
|
|
|
Post by philthetube on Sept 1, 2016 15:28:37 GMT
It has never been done for last trains, these put out duff information, eg. on the last Chesham the advice is given to change at Moor P ark for Watford, really not a good idea. The problems with getting drivers to do it is that as they cannot hear the announcements they are not aware what needs overriding or correcting and to occasionally do something which is outside the norm on a routine job is difficult to remember.
|
|
|
|
Post by tubetraveller on Sept 1, 2016 23:03:13 GMT
Speaking to one of my friends on the Central Line yesterday, the DVA still gives out wrong information and the drivers have to make PAs manually
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 1:40:19 GMT
Speaking to one of my friends on the Central Line yesterday, the DVA still gives out wrong information and the drivers have to make PAs manually Yep, Central Line DVA not being updated until 2019, supposedly. Night Tube PAs are all manual for interchange stations. |
|
|
|
Post by patrickb on Sept 2, 2016 2:06:04 GMT
Speaking to one of my friends on the Central Line yesterday, the DVA still gives out wrong information and the drivers have to make PAs manually Yep, Central Line DVA not being updated until 2019, supposedly. Night Tube PAs are all manual for interchange stations. Surprised that they are not being updated sooner. There hasn't been an update on the 92TS DVA's since the installment of Emma Clarke. I suppose it keeps Night Tube TOp's busy seeing as there not much manual operation involved... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 9:36:22 GMT
I suppose it keeps Night Tube TOp's busy seeing as there not much manual operation involved... We probably do more manual driving than the full timers as we work every Sunday. After 2am on Sunday morning, we are meant to be in coded manual in the open sections. And 99% of our duties include depot/sidings work. |
|
|
|
Post by drainrat on Sept 2, 2016 21:51:59 GMT
I suppose it keeps Night Tube TOp's busy seeing as there not much manual operation involved... We probably do more manual driving than the full timers as we work every Sunday. After 2am on Sunday morning, we are meant to be in coded manual in the open sections. And 99% of our duties include depot/sidings work. A lot of drivers still manually drive in open sections mon-sat. Always surprises me just how many do. 12 yrs ago you could find yourself stood down if you drove in CM, but line H&S reps argued that drivers are always be in control of the train whether it be CM or ATO, management accepted there was no detrimental affect on the timetable as the drivers could easily keep up with an ATO timetable and there was no increase in SPADs either. So, although it's obligatory to drive in CM in open sections, and tunnel between LES-NPK, on Sunday's and bank hols, there's nothing stopping a driver driving manually over these sections at any other time. Today I went up to WER twice, I would say at least half the trains I passed were in CM, including myself! |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Sept 2, 2016 23:52:54 GMT
How can you tell if the other trains are in CM?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 0:54:46 GMT
How can you tell if the other trains are in CM? Cab door open or hand on handle. |
|
|
|
Post by patrickb on Sept 3, 2016 1:07:39 GMT
The East End of the Central must be a pain to operate in CM then as I hardly see drivers using the handle, even on Sundays! I travel mostly in the off-peak.
Also, I wasn't aware that usage of CM on Sunday Services was extended as far back as 2AM!
On the Victoria Line, there isn't a CM Option I believe that would let you reach maximum line speed. Most TOps's are likely to be driving 09TS in ATO. Plenty of time do PA's then.
On the Jubilee, I recall reading that ATO was compulsory. So more PA's from October 7th.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 1:57:12 GMT
The East End of the Central must be a pain to operate in CM then as I hardly see drivers using the handle, even on Sundays! I travel mostly in the off-peak. Eh, not really. Aslefshrugged in the early days of his blog used to write quite a lot about going up to Epping in Coded with the door open when the weather was nice. I think it's just luck of the draw, when I used to commute into town regularly for university from Roding Valley, I found CM driving to be really quite common. Easily one journey a week would be on a train in Coded if memory serves. Anecdotally (and we should also be mindful that I wasn't in any cab at any time so could have been mistaken about the driving mode in use) it seems to be quite common to come into Woodford to terminate in Coded. Of course, it is very rare during the peaks (I believe it's technically not allowed unless strictly necessary) wherever you are on the line. As for Sundays, it is true that you often see trains running around in Auto out in the open, despite the guidelines. On the Victoria Line, there isn't a CM Option I believe that would let you reach maximum line speed. Most TOps's are likely to be driving 09TS in ATO. Plenty of time do PA's then. Are you sure? I don't think that's still true with the new system. It used to be with the old one, that's definitely true, but I can't see any reason why it would still be true? We had a bit of a discussion about this over on the Victoria line board and it seems that the braking profile is actually a lot slower, but full speed seems to be attainable. PM driving (Protected Manual) is rare on the Vic, as mentioned over there, though. I seem to remember there was a brief flirtation with encouraging/recommending/making T/Ops drive manually between Seven Sisters and Walthamstow on Sundays, but I think that may have died a death? On the Jubilee, I recall reading that ATO was compulsory. So more PA's from October 7th. Manual driving under Seltrac does seem to be pretty heavily deprecated, yeah. Again, I recall experiments with compulsory/recommended PM driving between Wembley Park and Stanmore on Sundays, but that might have been shelved. It's quite well used between West Ham and Stratford when dropping staff off at the staff halt for Stratford Market Depot. This can be done in Auto if the control room is contacted, or you can just talk to the driver and they can just drop you off themselves. |
|
North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
|
Post by North End on Sept 3, 2016 7:01:02 GMT
We probably do more manual driving than the full timers as we work every Sunday. After 2am on Sunday morning, we are meant to be in coded manual in the open sections. And 99% of our duties include depot/sidings work. A lot of drivers still manually drive in open sections mon-sat. Always surprises me just how many do. 12 yrs ago you could find yourself stood down if you drove in CM, but line H&S reps argued that drivers are always be in control of the train whether it be CM or ATO, management accepted there was no detrimental affect on the timetable as the drivers could easily keep up with an ATO timetable and there was no increase in SPADs either. So, although it's obligatory to drive in CM in open sections, and tunnel between LES-NPK, on Sunday's and bank hols, there's nothing stopping a driver driving manually over these sections at any other time. Today I went up to WER twice, I would say at least half the trains I passed were in CM, including myself! Sounds like more than the Northern Line then! Generally the brand new drivers have had a lot of manual practice due to the training requirements, however there are plenty of established drivers who have done no more than the 3x trips during their training plus what they have to do on Sundays. Unlike the Central Line, the TBTC lines have the ability to put in ANP which forces people to drive manually. The Sunday ANP is a common topic of messroom moaning! That said, there is a small coterie of Northern Line staff who regularly drive in PM and have become very good, and at one point there was at least one driver who had never used ATO since training (I think he's now moved lines though). |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Sept 3, 2016 8:03:01 GMT
How can you tell if the other trains are in CM? Cab door open or hand on handle. Some drivers rest their hand on the handle though. Thought it might be quite hard to see whether the handle is actually in operation when two trains are passing each other at speed. |
|
|
|
Post by drainrat on Sept 3, 2016 8:53:42 GMT
Cab door open or hand on handle. Some drivers rest their hand on the handle though. Thought it might be quite hard to see whether the handle is actually in operation when two trains are passing each other at speed. Cab door open is usual indicator, but tbc angle is a tell tale too |
|
|
|
Post by drainrat on Sept 3, 2016 8:55:59 GMT
The East End of the Central must be a pain to operate in CM then as I hardly see drivers using the handle, even on Sundays! I travel mostly in the off-peak. Also, I wasn't aware that usage of CM on Sunday Services was extended as far back as 2AM! On the Victoria Line, there isn't a CM Option I believe that would let you reach maximum line speed. Most TOps's are likely to be driving 09TS in ATO. Plenty of time do PA's then. On the Jubilee, I recall reading that ATO was compulsory. So more PA's from October 7th. East end of the line has its eccentricities, mainly drivers don't like being chucked around the cab whilst driving 😉 |
|
|
|
Post by patrickb on Sept 3, 2016 16:58:41 GMT
How can you tell if the other trains are in CM? I can usually tell when 92's pull into the platform. The Handle is turned to face forwards and is much clearer to see in use. Other times, TOp's are leaning their wrist or palm on it when it's not in use. As the handle is facing the side, their hand position is awkward and looks more like if they're holding a computer mouse. On certain occasion I don't bother looking to see if they are in PM. The early indicators to look out for are TOp's facing down with a strange glow emitting from their Smartphone  |
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Sept 3, 2016 20:38:18 GMT
I can usually tell when 92's pull into the platform. Is that because you're either stood on a Central or Waterloo & City Line Platform at the time  The Handle is turned to face forwards and is much clearer to see in use. Other times, TOp's are leaning their wrist or palm on it when it's not in use. As the handle is facing the side, their hand position is awkward and looks more like if they're holding a computer mouse. On certain occasion I don't bother looking to see if they are in PM. The early indicators to look out for are TOp's facing down with a strange glow emitting from their Smartphone I must admit that I've noticed the former, but rarely the latter... not to say that it doesn't occur... |
|
|
|
Post by drainrat on Sept 4, 2016 12:45:33 GMT
I can usually tell when 92's pull into the platform. Is that because you're either stood on a Central or Waterloo & City Line Platform at the time The Handle is turned to face forwards and is much clearer to see in use. Other times, TOp's are leaning their wrist or palm on it when it's not in use. As the handle is facing the side, their hand position is awkward and looks more like if they're holding a computer mouse. On certain occasion I don't bother looking to see if they are in PM. The early indicators to look out for are TOp's facing down with a strange glow emitting from their Smartphone I must admit that I've noticed the former, but rarely the latter... not to say that it doesn't occur... .......or it could just be glare from the CCTV monitors or pilot light or even Aux on light. All 3 would be on approaching the platform 😉 |
|
|
|
Post by philthetube on Sept 4, 2016 13:10:41 GMT
I would be surprised if drivers are observing smartphones, if you can see the glow then so can anyone else and being caught would mean good bye job.
|
|
|
|
Post by phoenixcronin on Sept 4, 2016 13:27:46 GMT
I would be surprised if drivers are observing smartphones, if you can see the glow then so can anyone else and being caught would mean good bye job. I've seen it on many occasions. Sometimes its quite clear as you can see from the window in the cab door that they're holding a black "thing" and fingers are typing etc |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Sept 4, 2016 14:00:27 GMT
Back to discussion about Night Tube please. Ta.
|
|
|
|
Post by PiccNT on Sept 4, 2016 15:44:54 GMT
I drove in manual all the way to Heathrow and back last night :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by philthetube on Sept 4, 2016 16:01:00 GMT
Any of the new drivers like to give a report on how they have been getting on?
|
|
|
|
Post by PiccNT on Sept 5, 2016 11:16:57 GMT
I can speak for the Piccadilly Line. We have a little issue with having a bit of a shortage of Instructor Operators. This is having the effect of extending the length of training, set initially for 14 weeks on our line as it is complex and manually driven but my training went on for about 18 weeks before I passed my road test. There is obviously a range of abilities amongst the trainees and anyone that requires a little more training can ask for it. I have no idea at what stage we will have sufficiently trained T/Ops to put on the Night Tube service so we will wait and see when an announcement is made. There are various rumours knocking around but until we hear something official, nobody really knows.
I had my first weekend driving alone last weekend. Apart from a bit of disruption on Friday night caused by a SPAD (not one of us!), I got turned early at T2/3 to get me back on time but thankfully the weekend ended uneventful for me! It is of course 100% concentration on the Picc. There are so many signals to observe, for those who aren't aware, if I drive from Cockfosters to T5 and back again, I will observe and act on around 700 signals. Can't afford to miss any of them!
|
|
|
|
Post by A60stock on Sept 5, 2016 14:27:25 GMT
I drove in manual all the way to Heathrow and back last night :-) Isn't the piccadily line only able to drive in manual, there is no ATO? Are there any dates for the Jubilee, Northern and Picc being added to the night tube? I would pressume the picc will be last due to it being the only non-ATO line and also due to age of the rolling stock? |
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Sept 5, 2016 15:01:03 GMT
I drove in manual all the way to Heathrow and back last night :-) Isn't the piccadily line only able to drive in manual, there is no ATO? Are there any dates for the Jubilee, Northern and Picc being added to the night tube? I would pressume the picc will be last due to it being the only non-ATO line and also due to age of the rolling stock? Jubilee Line is 7 October. No public date yet for Picc and Northern. I've read a suggestion they (N&P) will both commence on the same night. My guess, based on very little, is that they will start 5-6 weeks after the Jubilee Line. There seems to be a deliberate phased approach to the introduction which is fair enough. I don't think LU can leave it much later than early-mid Nov to bring the last two lines in because any later you are heading into the Christmas run up and then the Festive season itself. If there is any need for "tweaks" you'd have no time to do them before you're in the midst of the busiest time of the year for travel and when I'd expect there to be a peak in Night Tube travel. LU and City Hall have to have the Night Tube running "flawlessly" to cater for the Festive Season or else they'll be heavily criticised by the retail / entertainment / culture business sector in London who will be looking to exploit the existence of the Night Tube to make loads of money from Festive minded travellers! (bah humbug  ) |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Sept 5, 2016 17:55:37 GMT
I drove in manual all the way to Heathrow and back last night :-) Isn't the piccadily line only able to drive in manual, there is no ATO? I think there was an element of sarcasm there! |
|
|
|
Post by philthetube on Sept 5, 2016 18:09:16 GMT
I can speak for the Piccadilly Line. We have a little issue with having a bit of a shortage of Instructor Operators. This is having the effect of extending the length of training, set initially for 14 weeks on our line as it is complex and manually driven but my training went on for about 18 weeks before I passed my road test. There is obviously a range of abilities amongst the trainees and anyone that requires a little more training can ask for it. I have no idea at what stage we will have sufficiently trained T/Ops to put on the Night Tube service so we will wait and see when an announcement is made. There are various rumours knocking around but until we hear something official, nobody really knows. I had my first weekend driving alone last weekend. Apart from a bit of disruption on Friday night caused by a SPAD (not one of us!), I got turned early at T2/3 to get me back on time but thankfully the weekend ended uneventful for me! It is of course 100% concentration on the Picc. There are so many signals to observe, for those who aren't aware, if I drive from Cockfosters to T5 and back again, I will observe and act on around 700 signals. Can't afford to miss any of them! I think you are very lucky to get some short shifts to start. I remember my first week on the Northern, I was exhausted at the end of every shift, always driving on the edge of my seat, not sure what was round the next corner etc. Enjoy your career. |
|
|
|
Post by programmes1 on Sept 6, 2016 11:45:57 GMT
I had my first weekend driving alone last weekend. Apart from a bit of disruption on Friday night caused by a SPAD (not one of us!), I got turned early at T2/3 to get me back on time but thankfully the weekend ended uneventful for me! It is of course 100% concentration on the Picc. There are so many signals to observe, for those who aren't aware, if I drive from Cockfosters to T5 and back again, I will observe and act on around 700 signals. Can't afford to miss any of them! How are you counting the signals? |
|
)
