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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 20:24:46 GMT
The museum website also says it will cover the entire District Line (except north of HSK, obviously), so given the known times and places of the start, finish, and break, and knowing where reversals are possible, there are probably not too many schedules that would fit. The main variables are the order the western branches are covered, and between which two western branches the long trip to Upminster and back is done. Would the reversals between the Western branches take place at Earls Court? I've seen a Westbound train turn short and go back East there, but it did so outside the confines of the station (to the West), so I don't know how it was actually performed; took 10 minutes, is it done via W. Ken & Olympia? The only way I can think of for an Eastbound train to change direction would be via HSK and Gloucester Road - or is there a quicker method? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 9, 2017 20:35:48 GMT
Would the reversals between the Western branches take place at Earls Court? I've seen a Westbound train turn short and go back East there, but it did so outside the confines of the station (to the West), so I don't know how it was actually performed; took 10 minutes, is it done via W. Ken & Olympia? The only way I can think of for an Eastbound train to change direction would be via HSK and Gloucester Road - or is there a quicker method? The train you saw probably went via Olympia. A westbound train can go straight back eastbound from WB pfm.3. An eastbound train can reverse from EB pfm.2 into 'the yard' and come back into WB pfm.3. I would think the Tour train would reverse via the empty platform at High Street Ken pfm.4 |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 9, 2017 21:17:00 GMT
Would the reversals between the Western branches take place at Earls Court? I've seen a Westbound train turn short and go back East there, but it did so outside the confines of the station (to the West), so I don't know how it was actually performed; took 10 minutes, is it done via W. Ken & Olympia? The only way I can think of for an Eastbound train to change direction would be via HSK and Gloucester Road - or is there a quicker method? There is no need to use a triangle unless you want to turn the train end for end - reversing in "the Yard", or the dead end platforms at High Street Ken or Olympia, would be the easiest way of reversing in the Earls Court area. |
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 9, 2017 21:28:42 GMT
I am writing specifically about the farewell tour train in early May;
1) I hope that staff at stations the train passes through will be informed about this tour train and that there may well be passengers who wish to film it passing through their stations. I won't be happy if staff at the stations I go to say 'no filming'. I had this problem at at Leicester Square with the 1938 tube stock train, this ruined my ability to film the same train travelling through the same station but on the platforms of two different Lines!
2) It would be great if a more detailed timetable is made available in the public domain.
3) When travelling between Acton Town and Hammersmith is the train likely to use the District or Piccadilly line tracks (obviously not on the Richmond run, but on the run to Ealing / Northfields?)
Simon
ps: my spell checker wanted to correct 'Piccadilly' as 'Piccalilli'!
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 9, 2017 21:40:48 GMT
Would the reversals between the Western branches take place at Earls Court? I've seen a Westbound train turn short and go back East there, but it did so outside the confines of the station (to the West), so I don't know how it was actually performed; took 10 minutes, is it done via W. Ken & Olympia? The only way I can think of for an Eastbound train to change direction would be via HSK and Gloucester Road - or is there a quicker method? There is no need to use a triangle unless you want to turn the train end for end - reversing in "the Yard", or the dead end platforms at High Street Ken or Olympia, would be the easiest way of reversing in the Earls Court area. The R stock train used platform 4 at High St Ken (HSK). It then went to Olympia... I was not on the tour but saw (filmed) it arrive at HSK and then as it replaced a normal service train was able to travel on it to Olympia. What happened at Olympia would make an 'elf & 'safety bod 'bust a gut' if it were allowed today. This was that we were allowed to cross to the non-platform side of the tracks as the direction of the sun was better for photography. This was done under strict supervision. Alas, this would not be allowed 'today', which is a shame. Simon |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 6:41:18 GMT
Would the reversals between the Western branches take place at Earls Court? I've seen a Westbound train turn short and go back East there, but it did so outside the confines of the station (to the West), so I don't know how it was actually performed; took 10 minutes, is it done via W. Ken & Olympia? The only way I can think of for an Eastbound train to change direction would be via HSK and Gloucester Road - or is there a quicker method? There is no need to use a triangle unless you want to turn the train end for end - reversing in "the Yard", or the dead end platforms at High Street Ken or Olympia, would be the easiest way of reversing in the Earls Court area. Yes, of course, I must have been thinking it was still steam - although changing ends for the loco would be a bit tricky at any of these places! |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 10, 2017 8:28:26 GMT
Well, you might need to turn it if only one, single ended, unit remains serviceable by then!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 8:37:24 GMT
Doesn't look that likely in the next two weeks though!
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Post by crusty54 on Apr 11, 2017 12:34:05 GMT
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Post by uzairjubilee on Apr 11, 2017 15:39:53 GMT
What train number will the last D stock be operating on 21st April?
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Post by frankpick on Apr 11, 2017 15:57:19 GMT
What train number will the last D stock be operating on 21st April? 7 5 5 (111 101 101) |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 11, 2017 16:15:45 GMT
What train number will the last D stock be operating on 21st April? for the answer 755 is the set number for the 7th May tour. Haven't got a clue what your numbers in brackets are referring to.... |
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Post by sawb on Apr 11, 2017 16:18:28 GMT
The museum website also says it will cover the entire District Line (except north of HSK, obviously), so given the known times and places of the start, finish, and break, and knowing where reversals are possible, there are probably not too many schedules that would fit. The main variables are the order the western branches are covered, and between which two western branches the long trip to Upminster and back is done. Logical first part would be High Street Kensington to Wimbledon, then Wimbledon into the Tower Hill bay, who knows? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 11, 2017 16:38:29 GMT
755 is the set number for the 7th May tour. Haven't got a clue what your numbers in brackets are referring to.... They are the binary (or octal triplet) equivalents. Underground running numbers are octal (no 8s or 9s). In decimal it would be 256+128+64+32+8+4+1 = 493 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 17:55:15 GMT
755 is the set number for the 7th May tour. Haven't got a clue what your numbers in brackets are referring to.... They are the binary (or octal triplet) equivalents. Underground running numbers are octal (no 8s or 9s). In decimal it would be 256+128+64+32+8+4+1 = 493 I think it was more a reference to file permissions, 755 is what is mainly used. Still in two minds about getting tickets for this. |
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 11, 2017 18:27:17 GMT
For those planning on going, the end cars are usually the most popular. If I'm given the choice I'm aiming for car D (for District Dave) if anyone would care to join me.
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Post by camperdown9 on Apr 11, 2017 18:54:49 GMT
For those planning on going, the end cars are usually the most popular. If I'm given the choice I'm aiming for car D (for District Dave) if anyone would care to join me. Do you get told in advance what car your in? Or is it just wherever you can find space on the day? |
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Post by MoreToJack on Apr 11, 2017 19:20:35 GMT
For those planning on going, the end cars are usually the most popular. If I'm given the choice I'm aiming for car D (for District Dave) if anyone would care to join me. Do you get told in advance what car your in? Or is it just wherever you can find space on the day? Previously you have selected a car (and technically a seat) when booking tickets - I see no reason for it to be different this time around. Seating is generally not allocated, but you will need to stay in the car selected. |
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Post by superteacher on Apr 11, 2017 19:27:43 GMT
Can't make the tour but should be around for the final passenger day.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 10:00:07 GMT
So what is the full route? (I may be able to get more than one spectator shot). If there are changes to the regular timetable to make way for T755 please PM me the relevant notices so I can cross out the trains that would otherwise take thinking that it wasn't cancelled. The tour train route seems to be a closely guarded mystery at the moment. All we know is what is in the public domain already - it starts at High Street Kensington, has a break at Northfields and finishes at Ealing Broadway. We also know that it will only run on current D stock areas of operation only (plus the Northfields & back). No trains will be cancelled in order to run the special tour (except maybe an Olympia trip IF if it runs there, owing to the branch being single track) - it'll simply fit in around the timetabled service. Presumably our friends on this site who are "in the know" will be able to give us photographers the route and timings in due course; as well as the train no. of the last "all day" working on 21st April - sounds as though LU plan to only have the one train in service that day. Admin team, am I correct? Yes, only one train is planned to run on the 21st April. The train number is fairly widely known but a number of caveats are attached such as the required D stock being at the right depot and fit for service. The biggest issue in stating the number is that the depot's have consistently ignored every planned nomination list published in relation to the switch from D stock to S stock so there is little confidence that the plan will bear out in reality. I'm also not overly keen on revealing the planned number too soon as I don't want to be responsible for idiots ruining the day, gaining this forum a poor reputation for leaking unofficial information, etc. Does it mean an engineering possession will be taken on the Piccadilly for this to occur? Nope, absolutely no need whatsoever for a possession. As stated by others, D stock can quite happily go to & from Northfields any time at all with no restrictions whatsoever. Going back to the routing and timing of the special, could anyone in the know on timetabling answer this? Given that the absolute minimum (rush hour) headway through the central zone seems to be 2 minutes (I can't find any shorter than this), and that even on Sundays it is 2.5 mins most of the time and with no obvious gaps to fit in extra trains, how can 755 be scheduled between two of these without cancellations? Or is the headway quietly reduced to 2 mins and the following services expected to run (officially) late until they catch up at the theoretical rate of 30 seconds per train! I shouldn't have thought there would be an extensive rewriting of the WTT just for this, so how exactly is it managed? Anybody? |
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Post by Colin on Apr 13, 2017 12:00:21 GMT
Those "in the know" are still keeping the routing plan to themselves I'm afraid.
As for how it fits in, it will have a special trains notice issued which is basically it's timetable.
It will literally bully its way into gaps between normal timetabled trains, but the effect is negligible as we have stand times built in at various places all along the line.
For example trains off the Wimbledon road tend to have 2 minutes booked stand at Earls Court. Trains off the Ealing & Richmond roads often get a minute or two at Earls Court as well.
And that's only one location. Now I'm not suggesting we could could save 10 minutes per trip by removing all the booked stand times - it's not that dramatic - but it is an example of how it's fairly easy to slip an extra train in without too much fuss.
Another option already built into the standard working timetable are paths designated as RR - runs if required. They're very rarely used but do create an easy to follow pathing if needed.
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Post by kateyay on Apr 13, 2017 18:47:21 GMT
Colin's reply is already comprehensive! What you may not see, when a Special Trains Notice is issued, is that there is the timetable for the train on one page, but also "consequential timetable alterations" on subsequent pages, listing the times where other trains have had their workings altered in a minor way, to accommodate the special working path.
The timetablers take great care when working these paths out, just to make sure nothing is *too* changed, as this may have other implications for the rest of the railway, changeover trains, other stock moves or paths, duty changeovers, and so on.
Other trains will (as Colin says) have their booked stands reduced at various places, or be stood somewhere for a little longer than usual (taking into consideration signals, points and normal headway etc) so that this path can work. That's the theory, anyway! Actual practical "what happens" is at mercy of all of the variables of operation!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 23:29:02 GMT
Colin's reply is already comprehensive! What you may not see, when a Special Trains Notice is issued, is that there is the timetable for the train on one page, but also "consequential timetable alterations" on subsequent pages, listing the times where other trains have had their workings altered in a minor way, to accommodate the special working path. The timetablers take great care when working these paths out, just to make sure nothing is *too* changed, as this may have other implications for the rest of the railway, changeover trains, other stock moves or paths, duty changeovers, and so on. Other trains will (as Colin says) have their booked stands reduced at various places, or be stood somewhere for a little longer than usual (taking into consideration signals, points and normal headway etc) so that this path can work. That's the theory, anyway! Actual practical "what happens" is at mercy of all of the variables of operation! That's very informative, thank you - shows that there are in fact small changes to other scheduled services, even though no passengers would notice them. There are so few 'RR' paths in the WTT that I couldn't see those being a great deal of use... As for the 2 min booked stands, it's mainly Earls Court that comes to mind here, where you frequently have two trains in the same platform both heading for the same piece of track, and as they have to go sequentially, that also doesn't seem to offer much chance of an extra path! |
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 14, 2017 21:35:47 GMT
Since the Edgware Road route will be closed on that day wont there be extra gaps available from the Circles that wont be running?
Or will these be filled by Districts from Wimbledon?
Simon
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 15, 2017 3:23:17 GMT
Since the Edgware Road route will be closed on that day wont there be extra gaps available from the Circles that wont be running? Or will these be filled by Districts from Wimbledon? Simon There are no planned works on the sub-surface Lines that weekend, or indeed no track work on any LU Line. |
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Post by Colin on Apr 15, 2017 5:36:47 GMT
Are you sure about that?
According to TfL's website, on 7th May there is:
No District between High Street Kensington & Edgware Road
No Metropolitan between Wembley Park & Aldgate
No Overground between New Cross Gate and West Croydon / Crystal Palace
No TfL Rail between Brentwood & Shenfield
No mention of any closures on the Circle or H&C
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Post by DWS on Apr 15, 2017 8:10:00 GMT
Are you sure about that? According to TfL's website, on 7th May there is: No District between High Street Kensington & Edgware Road No Metropolitan between Wembley Park & Aldgate No Overground between New Cross Gate and West Croydon / Crystal Palace No TfL Rail between Brentwood & Shenfield No mention of any closures on the Circle or H&C I think this is wrong , all London Underground lines have a normal service on Sunday 7 May 2017. |
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Post by Colin on Apr 15, 2017 8:18:59 GMT
Hmm.....
Just found another list that just shows the Overground - and both sources are on the same TfL website!
Bonkers!!
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Post by programmes1 on Apr 15, 2017 8:28:09 GMT
Hmm..... Just found another list that just shows the Overground - and both sources are on the same TfL website! Bonkers!! Well this one Click shows that there is a closure between High St and Edgware rd so what do we believe? |
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Post by Colin on Apr 15, 2017 9:04:19 GMT
That's what I looked at first - then I found this version...... No wonder the public end up confused! |
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