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Post by superteacher on May 17, 2016 21:32:46 GMT
With the new timetable, are there any updates to the nominated D stock workings?
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Colin
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My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on May 18, 2016 11:03:28 GMT
Yes:
Monday to Friday
4, 10, 12, 15, 32, 54, 55, 60, 61, 62, 63, 67, 101, 102, 105, 106, 107 & 125
Saturdays
6, 7, 12, 32, 33, 36, 51 & 63
Sundays
2, 7, 21, 22, 24, 26 & 34
The weekends above are the normal timetable workings - things would obviously change for engineering works.
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Post by superteacher on May 21, 2016 16:51:12 GMT
Saturday 21st May. D stock scheduled 8, actual in service 19. There were 17 in service on Sat a month ago! They should be going down, not up!
Why schedule 8 and instead run 19? Makes zero sense!
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 21, 2016 22:39:28 GMT
Why not? They work, they are available, and keeping the S stock in the sidings postpones the time when maintenance will fall due.
If you want to look at it the other way, they are hastening the day when mileage-based maintenance falls due on the D stocks, as it is that which will trigger their withdrawal.
(If you've got two batteries (tubes of toothpaste/ pens/ whatever), one of which is new and the other almost used up, which one do you use first I you now you are going to be short of space soon?)
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Post by superteacher on May 22, 2016 7:49:52 GMT
Why not? They work, they are available, and keeping the S stock in the sidings postpones the time when maintenance will fall due. If you want to look at it the other way, they are hastening the day when mileage-based maintenance falls due on the D stocks, as it is that which will trigger their withdrawal. (If you've got two batteries (tubes of toothpaste/ pens/ whatever), one of which is new and the other almost used up, which one do you use first I you now you are going to be short of space soon?) It's different to what has been done on other lines. I remember when the 2009 stock and S8 stock were rolled out, they were the trains that were in service if available, not the older stock which they were replacing. |
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Post by Chris W on May 22, 2016 9:54:28 GMT
Saturday 21st May. D stock scheduled 8, actual in service 19. There were 17 in service on Sat a month ago! They should be going down, not up! Why schedule 8 and instead run 19? Makes zero sense! For D Stock enthusiasts, I think this means, enjoy them while you can. I loved the trains that they replaced.... the CO/CP Stock, mind you I missed my final chance to ride on one in late August 1980, forgoing it for the opportunity to press the door opening buttons on one of the new D Stock trains that were being rolled out back then. I've regretted that decision, made when I was aged 8, ever since... as the CO/CPs disappeared in March/April the following year.  |
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Post by superteacher on May 22, 2016 10:18:09 GMT
Saturday 21st May. D stock scheduled 8, actual in service 19. There were 17 in service on Sat a month ago! They should be going down, not up! Why schedule 8 and instead run 19? Makes zero sense! For D Stock enthusiasts, I think this means, enjoy them while you can. I loved the trains that they replaced.... the CO/CP Stock, mind you I missed my final chance to ride on one in late August 1980, forgoing it for the opportunity to press the door opening buttons on one of the new D Stock trains that were being rolled out back then. I've regretted that decision, made when I was aged 8, ever since... as the CO/CPs disappeared in March/April the following year. Oh don't get me wrong, from an enthusiasts' point of view I'm not complaining! My point is that all through the S stock rollout, various lists of workings and number of trains planned to operate have been produced which is rarely, if ever, mirrored in practice! Will be interesting to see what happens if there is a heatwave soon - will they keep the air conditioned S stocks sitting in the depot when they could be in service? Hmmm! EDIT: Does anyone know how long 7115 has left? I remember standing by this unit at Ealing Common on the last day of the unrefurbished D stock operation, and having a quick chat with Dave who had been driving it. Great memories. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 22, 2016 16:53:20 GMT
It's different to what has been done on other lines. I remember when the 2009 stock and S8 stock were rolled out, they were the trains that were in service if available, not the older stock which they were replacing. Is it so different? In the early stages of a rollout you want to build up experience of the new stock, and hopefully identify any bugs as soon as possible so that later members of the fleet can be fixed whilst still on the production line. The constraint at this stage is the number of staff trained to drive the new stock. But later on, a consideration is the value of unexpired mileage-to-next-service. In many businesses, you are encouraged to use up old stock (whether it is stationery such as headed paper, or rolling stock) rather than discarding it and starting to use the new stock straight away. Getting the most out of the old stock while you still have it makes sense unless the new stock has some extra capability - so you might find S stock being used more on days when aircon is most useful. For example, resignalling of the Victoria Line was done in stages, and for about a month in 2011, being incompatible with the new signalling, 1967 stock was not permitted north of Seven Sisters. This obviously limited the amount of use that could be made of the old stock after that date. |
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Post by superteacher on May 22, 2016 17:06:02 GMT
With the 2009 stock rollout, weekend working of 67 stock was all but finished a couple of months before they were barred north of Seven Sisters. There were plenty of 67's still available, but 2009 stock was used if available. With the S and D, it's the other way round it seems.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 17:16:04 GMT
When were the D stock introduced?
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Post by John Tuthill on May 22, 2016 17:24:09 GMT
When were the D stock introduced? 28th January 1980, they were order in 1976 |
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Post by grahamhewett on May 22, 2016 18:01:52 GMT
superteacher - is there a contractual point behind this, do you think, where using new stock would hasten the day when mileage related maintenance had to be undertaken (no such requirement for stock on the way out)?
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Post by superteacher on May 22, 2016 20:18:31 GMT
superteacher - is there a contractual point behind this, do you think, where using new stock would hasten the day when mileage related maintenance had to be undertaken (no such requirement for stock on the way out)? That may well be the case, although I don't have the necessary info to comment further. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 28, 2016 8:21:24 GMT
Ealing Common depot have now stopped heavy maintenance of D Stock and the Team responsible has now been disbanded.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 28, 2016 8:26:59 GMT
Ealing Common depot have now stopped heavy maintenance of D Stock and the Team responsible has now been disbanded. But there is still maintenance going on elsewhere? |
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Post by crusty54 on May 28, 2016 11:53:58 GMT
Upminster has facilities for heavy maintenance
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 21:37:30 GMT
On a connected note, If I were in charge of Rolling Stock procurement on the Tube, I would have replaced the crumbling Bakerloo line trains first, possible combining them with an order for further Northern Line trains for the Battersea extension. The D stock still has two decades of economic life left in it - it was only recently refurbished with brand new bogies too.
The Bakerloo trains are in far worse condition than the newly refurbished D stock trains.
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Post by malcolmffc on May 30, 2016 7:53:25 GMT
With respect, it is a very good thing you are not in charge of rolling stock procurement. The SSR signalling upgrade and the associated capacity increase can only be achieved once common, modern stock capable of ATO is running on all lines, which needs to happen as soon as possible. In contrast the Bakerloo is the least busy of the deep tube lines (other than the W&C) and it would not make business sense to order new stock now when more trains would need to be bought in the next decade for the extension.
The line that is most desparately in need of new stock right now is the Piccadilly but that will have to wait until the mid 2020s for the signalling upgrade.
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Post by superteacher on May 30, 2016 8:14:52 GMT
I thought the D stock refurb was quite cosmetic in comparison to some of the other stocks. Did they actually receive new bogies?
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metman
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Post by metman on May 30, 2016 8:24:04 GMT
They did but I believe this was before the main refurb.
How many units are left in service. I need to get out and film/photo some.
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 30, 2016 8:32:50 GMT
I thought the D stock refurb was quite cosmetic in comparison to some of the other stocks. Did they actually receive new bogies? Indeed little mechanical was done at refurb. The bogies were changed under a separate program before refurb, 2000-2002, this wouldn't include the attached motors. How many units are left in service. I need to get out and film/photo some. As at today, 21 trains are available for service, on most days these all can usually be found running (except weekends/Bank Holidays) when fewer would operate. |
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Post by superteacher on May 30, 2016 8:47:33 GMT
I thought the D stock refurb was quite cosmetic in comparison to some of the other stocks. Did they actually receive new bogies? Indeed little mechanical was done at refurb. The bogies were changed under a separate program before refurb, 2000-2002. How many units are left in service. I need to get out and film/photo some. As at today, 21 trains are available for service, on most days these all can usually be found running (except weekends/Bank Holidays) when fewer would operate. Wasn't the number of nominated D stock workings being reduced to 14 from the end of May? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 30, 2016 10:01:40 GMT
As at today, 21 trains are available for service, on most days these all can usually be found running (except weekends/Bank Holidays) when fewer would operate. Wasn't the number of nominated D stock workings being reduced to 14 from the end of May? [/quote] As I understand it, some workings have to be D stock, some have to be S stock, and some may be operated with either. So with 14 nominated workings and 21 trains available, the number of workings actually operated by D stock can be anywhere between 14 and 21. |
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Post by superteacher on May 30, 2016 10:26:09 GMT
True, as not all depot roads can accommodate both types of stock.
Probably unlikely that all 21 will be in service at the same time due to maintenance, defects etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 17:27:37 GMT
I just travelled on a D-stock today between Embankment and Victoria, those distinctive motor noises will be a thing of the past soon, well on the Tube at least - they will still be in service on some provincial railway, in the guise of a D-Train!
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Post by superteacher on May 31, 2016 18:20:34 GMT
D stock in service today (31/5/16) in the afternoon / evening peak:
2,4,10,11,15,25,31,32,52,54,55,60,63,67,101,105,107,125,126
19 trains out of a possible 21.
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Post by graeme186 on Jun 3, 2016 21:04:40 GMT
Earlier this evening: T55=7034+7115, T67=7040+7107, T62=7030+7538, T1=7037+7518, T101=7079+7504, T63=7075+7530, T2=7024+7097, T105=7070+7101, T4=7032+7057, T31=7016+7526, T107=7006+7524, T102=7048+7536, T32=7007+7508, T7=7105+7512, T12=7018+7532, T10=7012+7095. T14 and T125 also 'D' Stock. Intended to check a few more trains but by 1845, WB trains were blocking back from Westminster back to at least east of Whitechapel due to signal problem on WB between Embankment and Westminster so called it a day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 21:46:49 GMT
Signal problem which turned out to be a track issue in the end
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Post by antharro on Jun 3, 2016 22:30:00 GMT
Spotted 7018 at Wimbledon at about 1945. I've always enjoyed passing through Wimbledon on fast trains and seeing Cs and Ds lined up at the platforms or out on the tracks. Even saw our founder Dave on the front of a C stock once heading into Wimbledon in his I/Op role.  |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 4, 2016 6:53:44 GMT
Earlier this evening: T55=7034+7115, T67=7040+7107, T62=7030+7538, T1=7037+7518, T101=7079+7504, T63=7075+7530, T2=7024+7097, T105=7070+7101, T4=7032+7057, T31=7016+7526, T107=7006+7524, T102=7048+7536, T32=7007+7508, T7=7105+7512, T12=7018+7532, T10=7012+7095. T14 and T125 also 'D' Stock. Intended to check a few more trains but by 1845, WB trains were blocking back from Westminster back to at least east of Whitechapel due to signal problem on WB between Embankment and Westminster so called it a day. For completeness: T14 was 7046+7503 T125 was 7108+7033 also T15 was 7534+7031. So 19 trains running out of 20 still available. On several recent occasions T125 AM has been formed of S Stock, an extension to Tower Hill is required and enough time to have the required minimum 4mins turn-around. |
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