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Post by t697 on Dec 11, 2010 20:51:01 GMT
There is no gap between normal trains on the Chesham branch ! Would imagine any such testing required would occur in engineering hours. Indeed so, all S stock testing to Chesham was in engineering hours. Train works fine on the branch and at Chesham. But do please Mind the Gap on the curved section of the platform! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2010 21:19:06 GMT
The S Stock will resurrect two features of bygone years - the return of yellow passenger open buttons to the Met line - (remember the CO/CP trains?), and I think that there will be the three 2007 vintage prototype "pre-production" trains incorporated into the main fleet - (remember the 1956 stock cars in the 1959/62 trains fleet?) - History does have a habit of repeating itself at times!.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2010 22:17:32 GMT
Not quite true, but it is true that the S-stock will be on a few more workings from tomorrow. It will be able to cover any service north of Baker Street - but for the time being there are only a handful of workings that are being concentrated on. Are any of those workings during peak hours? I'd love to catch one at Baker Street and/or Finchley Road  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2010 22:30:18 GMT
Not quite true, but it is true that the S-stock will be on a few more workings from tomorrow. It will be able to cover any service north of Baker Street - but for the time being there are only a handful of workings that are being concentrated on. Are any of those workings during peak hours? I'd love to catch one at Baker Street and/or Finchley Road All 3 trains that can operate with 'S' stock from Monday, do operate in the peaks on the MF. |
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Post by den on Dec 12, 2010 13:46:58 GMT
Not quite true, but it is true that the S-stock will be on a few more workings from tomorrow. It will be able to cover any service north of Baker Street - but for the time being there are only a handful of workings that are being concentrated on. The trips manage to cover one trip to each terminus except Chesham - but the stock could easily end up on a through Chesham at some point in the not too distant future. Does that include Uxbridge? |
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Post by citysig on Dec 12, 2010 16:56:22 GMT
All locations north of Baker Street can now (from today, not Monday) be served at any given time by S-stock in service. This includes the Uxbridge branch.
We have been given a fairly large document detailing various restrictions at several locations, but for the most part they in themselves should not affect its operation.
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Post by citysig on Dec 12, 2010 16:58:49 GMT
All 3 trains that can operate with 'S' stock from Monday, do operate in the peaks on the MF. They are the "planned" and "timetabled" paths - which until this point haven't really be used. And whilst they may become more regular (especially in week 1) I can still see plenty of "ad hoc" workings taking place to cover for stock shortage. The "recommended" trains to cover are simply ones that never go to Aldgate throughout the day. That is the only condition we have to be mindful of when utilising the trains on different trips. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2010 16:59:36 GMT
All locations north of Baker Street can now (from today, not Monday) be served at any given time by S-stock in service. This includes the Uxbridge branch. We have been given a fairly large document detailing various restrictions at several locations, but for the most part they in themselves should not affect its operation. Does that mean we will start to see S Stock from Baker Street more often now than before? |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 12, 2010 17:01:32 GMT
So we are unlikely to see S stock on the Uxbridge branch then, unless a short working to Baker Street is arranged. Are the going to be many problems fitting in the extra trains between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge? I guess when there is a 20min gap in the Picc service it can slot in there.
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Post by citysig on Dec 12, 2010 17:03:21 GMT
Does that mean we will start to see S Stock from Baker Street more often now than before? Given that Baker Street was out of bounds until today (except in overnight / weekend testing) then the simple answer is yes. If you are also asking whether S-stock will be seen more, then the answer is again probably yes, although there still are only 3 trains we can use, and the extension of areas they can go to means they will be more thinly spread. |
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Post by citysig on Dec 12, 2010 17:05:00 GMT
So we are unlikely to see S stock on the Uxbridge branch then, unless a short working to Baker Street is arranged. Are the going to be many problems fitting in the extra trains between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge? I guess when there is a 20min gap in the Picc service it can slot in there. Uxbridge is on the "slightly less likely" list for now - but the branch will see S-stock throughout the day (maybe hours between each working though). There are a number of Uxbridge-Baker Street trips in the peaks, which could be run using the stock - as long as the stock is swapped if it ends up on an Uxbridge-Aldgate service. This will be done most likely at Harrow. The trains will fit as they will either be running on booked test paths, or covering timetabled trains. |
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Post by alex92ts on Dec 13, 2010 16:00:43 GMT
Is there any set date for the last A-stock to be withdrawn? I'm guessing there are still more A-stocks than S-stocks.
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Post by metman on Dec 13, 2010 16:30:22 GMT
There certainly are more A stocks that S stocks. There are only 3 S8s in London capable of pax service and there are 55 1/2 trains of A stock....
As to the date, I don't know, hopefully for me, as long as possible!
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Post by dangeruxb on Dec 13, 2010 17:36:29 GMT
21005 etc was working Train 451 this morning (10:30) which was all stations Baker St to Watford
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2010 17:46:27 GMT
In passenger service from Baker Street?
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Post by den on Dec 13, 2010 17:48:23 GMT
Took S Stock to and from school today. I think I saw more S stocks than A stocks on my particular journey.
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 13, 2010 17:49:10 GMT
In passenger service from Baker Street? If you read the forum - I can't remember exactly where it it is [1], you'll see that there are booked paths for S stock to all termini except Chesham and Uxbridge in the new WTT. (digs out trowel for a bit of thread archaeology) [1]read page 11 of this thread. ;D |
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Post by alex92ts on Dec 13, 2010 18:06:42 GMT
There certainly are more A stocks that S stocks. There are only 3 S8s in London capable of pax service and there are 55 1/2 trains of A stock.... As to the date, I don't know, hopefully for me, as long as possible! Thats good! That at least means I have a good chance of having a ride on an A-stock over Christmas. I'm planning to have a trip on the Met, all the way up to Amersham or Chesham ...don't really get a chance often as I live in Essex  I suppose we have been quite lucky that the A-stocks have lasted this long. |
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Post by cso on Dec 13, 2010 18:19:50 GMT
mrfs42: Page 11 of this thread says they are booked to run to Uxbridge during this new WTT... in fact, I'm informed one got to Ickenham about 8 minutes ago :-)
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 13, 2010 18:24:07 GMT
mrfs42: Page 11 of this thread says they are booked to run to Uxbridge during this new WTT... in fact, I'm informed one got to Ickenham about 8 minutes ago :-) Aha - so the 'slightly less likely' didn't hold out for the first day of the new TT.  |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 13, 2010 20:19:44 GMT
went for a look before work this morning - got to make the most of my all-zone Travelcard before it expires next week as it will be replaced with a pt-pt.
Plan was to go BSt to HotH on whatever came first, and wait there, unless I passed an S stock on the way in which case I'd bale and go back to Finchley Road to wait for it to come back.
I bit optimistic I thought, but worth a try.
............and what should I see just as I left Finchley Road but 21005 heading south. So I had to go all the way to Wembley Park and back, and JUST made it in time for the S stock to emerge from the gloom, so I made a second round trip to WPk!
Yeah, ticked that box now.
By coincidence, the train I took south the first time round was 5090 - now formed in a 8-car train of course, but still just as filthy: the commemorative "decoration" scrawled in the grime on its day of glory last Saturday was still clearly visible.
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Post by metman on Dec 13, 2010 20:22:00 GMT
went for a look before work this morning - got to make the most of my all-zone Travelcard before it expires next week as it will be replaced with a pt-pt. Plan was to go BSt to HotH on whatever came first, and wait there, unless I passed an S stock on the way in which case I'd bale and go back to Finchley Road to wait for it to come back. I bit optimistic I thought, but worth a try. ............and what should I see just as I left Finchley Road but 21005 heading south. So I had to go all the way to Wembley Park and back, and JUST made it in time for the S stock to emerge from the gloom, so I made a second round trip to WPk! Yeah, ticked that box now. By coincidence, the train I took south the first time round was 5090 - now formed in a 8-car train of course, but still just as filthy: the commemorative "decoration" scrawled in the grime on its day of glory last Saturday was still clearly visible. Still not clean! Needed for its de-icing gear no doubt. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2010 20:40:10 GMT
mrfs42: Page 11 of this thread says they are booked to run to Uxbridge during this new WTT... in fact, I'm informed one got to Ickenham about 8 minutes ago :-) Aha - so the 'slightly less likely' didn't hold out for the first day of the new TT. The trains that can be worked by 'S' stock, on the MF as of today, always had some trips to Uxbridge as part of their workings, just the odd trip in the peaks, where as the bulk of their work is on the Baker St - Watford circuit |
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Post by citysig on Dec 13, 2010 20:53:19 GMT
The "slightly less likely" was always going to be "more likely" today, the first weekday of the new timetable and lifted restrictions. Efforts were going to be made to make sure the trains got to all destinations. Bound to have been the odd one or two political moves  Just a shame the morning began with a failure at Chalfont which nearly (very, very nearly) saw the bay road being used for an 8-car again. Wouldn't be my first choice of getting out of the particular failure, but given the weekend attention of the branch, who could resist it on the first weekday of through services ;D ;D As I said, whilst the Uxbridge paths are less than the Watford paths, the stock can now be utilised better than before to cover any of the stock shortages. However those in themselves have dropped over the last week or 2, so in terms of the stock availability we're now in a position of having a couple of spare A-stocks available whilst the S-stock is covering their work, Add to this that the timetabled paths are all "run as required" and given the fact we can now use the stock anywhere north of Baker Street, opportunity to get the stock onto any working will be taken. So for example the 1200 trip to Watford in the timetable may not run, but an 1145 Uxbridge to Baker Street additional trip may run instead (timings purely an example). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2010 21:00:11 GMT
Add to this that the timetabled paths are all "run as required" and given the fact we can now use the stock anywhere north of Baker Street, opportunity to get the stock onto any working will be taken. So for example the 1200 trip to Watford in the timetable may not run, but an 1145 Uxbridge to Baker Street additional trip may run instead (timings purely an example). I'm not sure I follow your reference to the timetabled paths all being RR ? There are the 2 testing/training paths that are RR, but the 3 other trains that can be 'S' stock on the MF as of today, are all part of the timetabled service |
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Post by citysig on Dec 13, 2010 21:08:58 GMT
Sorry, didn't make myself clear. The test paths are, as you say RR.
What I meant was that the paths which "can" be S-stock covered are not always going to be S-stock covered - they will be utilised as required by both the testers and us in SC. They are the "easy" paths to stick an S-stock onto and forget about it (as it shouldn't end up being sent towards the city). But if there are gaps that could be filled better by using an S-stock, or if the testers need something in particular, the stock will be allocated to other trains and the A-stock either stabled or put onto a different service.
The use of the stock is being kept fairly fluid, rather than rigidly telling us we "must put train X on trip Y".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2010 21:16:10 GMT
Sorry, didn't make myself clear. The test paths are, as you say RR. What I meant was that the paths which "can" be S-stock covered are not always going to be S-stock covered - they will be utilised as required by both the testers and us in SC. They are the "easy" paths to stick an S-stock onto and forget about it (as it shouldn't end up being sent towards the city). But if there are gaps that could be filled better by using an S-stock, or if the testers need something in particular, the stock will be allocated to other trains and the A-stock either stabled or put onto a different service. The use of the stock is being kept fairly fluid, rather than rigidly telling us we "must put train X on trip Y". What do you reckon the chances are of an 'S' stock working running into problems when the relief T/OP is not 'S' stock trained? I know this will probably be communicated between control and DMT's, but when/if the service collapses and a T/OP may require immediate relief due to breaking their hours etc! What is the current split on the line in terms of % of trained/untrained which I guess would have some bearing on the above scenario unfolding? |
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Post by citysig on Dec 13, 2010 21:23:11 GMT
LOL! ;D ;D We've already voiced this, along with the new timetable having most pick-ups at Harrow - regardless of which depot the driver may need to travel from. This morning was a prime example of a small failure disrupting the whole line in one hit - with Ricky drivers stuck at Ricky whilst their trains were stuck at Harrow. Anyway... The chances of it happening early on are quite high I think. I have no idea of the proportion of drivers who have been trained on the stock. I think (maybe hope) we have a fair number available, so that on the occasion a relieving driver is not trained, then the next train alongside at Harrow will hopefully have a trained driver. In this case we'll swap them over (and of course, as these things normally go, the swap train will probably be an Aldgate  ;D ) Failing that, the stock will have to be sent off to depot - with the driver who couldn't be relieved hopefully having the time to take it. We know it will happen - because this kind of thing always happens. But at least we know that as time goes by it will get easier. |
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Post by metman on Dec 13, 2010 21:27:43 GMT
Don't worry, the Harrow crew centre is nearly finished.....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2010 22:42:22 GMT
I had the benefit of a S stock changing destination from Watford to Uxbridge at H-O-T-H at around 6.50pm today! My first trip, and overall I was pretty impressed, although there did seem to be a problem with the doors at the front. Of course, now passengers can walk through to other carriages easily, but I haven't seen how that works in a packed train yet. A much better distance between the train and the platform as well. The real test for me is how it rides between Harrow and Finchley Road: I nearly bounced out of my seat on an A stock this morning...
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Just a shame the morning began with a failure at Chalfont which nearly (very, very nearly) saw the bay road being used for an 8-car again. Wouldn't be my first choice of getting out of the particular failure, but given the weekend attention of the branch, who could resist it on the first weekday of through services ;D ;D
;D )
