Class 378 DC operation

Are there any extra new trains available for the DC line or will they have to buy more new ones?

24 class 378/0 units (3 car dual voltage) were originally ordered to replace the 21 class 313 and 3 class 508 units, so no extra new units would be needed.

Some of the class 378/2 units(4 car dual voltage), ordered later, will be used for increased services on the North and West London line, once all the upgrade work is finished.

So it's the beginning of the end for the 313's . . . (at least on London Overground).

More like the middle of the end The beginning was at the timetable change last December, when the first units became available for Southern.

Yes, 19 units to Southern, the rest to the Great Northern part of First Capital Connect. (The 508s don't seem to have a new home).


Yes, units 228 and 229 have been there for several days now.



I've seen a quote which said transverse seating would be fitted after the Olympics, but we shall have to see.

Well Boris, at a meeting in February, apparently promised transverse seating after the Olympics, so we shall see. Remember that there are plans for a fifth car for the units and that could have a different seating arrangement or lead to alterations to the existing cars.

found on London Connections blog, comment by Kofi about halfway down:

londonreconnections.blogspot.com/2010/02/in-pictures-new-overground-class-172s.html

As an employee of LOROL, i would like to know where all this talk of five car class 378s has come from, the staff are unaware, the Managers are unaware and even the MD since inception has never spoken about 5 car operation.

If indeed as some or one has mentioned on here about 5 car operation why indeed has Lorol and Network Rail seen fit to extend platforms on the NLL to only four car operation?

I will ask my union reps to ask Management about this idea and see what the answer is.

Any evidence from LOROL, The Mayors office, City Halll and Transport for London would help most greatly. Not roumours and speculation that just wouldnt wash.

RAIL magazine, (2 June-15 June) has an article specifically regarding the ELL.
A box containing quotes from Ian Brown (MD TfL London Rail) says:

""We know what we put in our plans justify the scheme", says Brown, wary that the DLR ridership has risen spectacularly from 16m in it's early days to 67m. With some modification, all of the stations can receive five-car trains, even though Brown says that's "not on the cards for some time" and Shoreditch High Street has 'passive provision' for eight-cars! ".

It was mentioned at an LURS talk about the Clapham Junction extension to the ELL that there was passive provision for future 5 car operation.

It is to be wondered why many of the 'easy' platform extensions underway on the North London are only adding a little bit to the platforms, rather the full length needed for future 5 car trains. Surely adding another 20m at a later date will be more expensive overall than doing it now.

^{Was the public ever consulted about the introduction of full longitudinal seating? The Metropolitan line commuters will have a mix on their S-stock trains, but passengers on the DC line (many journeys of over 30 mins) don't seem to have had a say.}

Good lord, if we consulted about everything nothing would ever get done! In any case the average journey time on LO is 21.7 minutes so longitudinal seating in a high density inner suburban unit is optimal. The S8 stock on the Met is aimed at 'Amersham Man' with average journey times of 45-55 minutes.

But LO is a similar split of journey times to the Met line, some long distance (especially on the DC lines) and some shorter. Why pander to 'Amersham Man' and not 'Hatch End' man? After all, most of the Met journeys are as inner suburban as the LO.

Yes I have, frequently. The problem is the balance between a couple of hours of really busy peak time use on the NLL and longer journeys on less busy sections and/or at slightly quieter times.

I'm not saying the the 378s should be all transverse, just that the lack of seats overall is not good for the use that the trains see. Why should passengers have to stand on less busy trains because TfL have seen fit to have a design with a lower number of seats. A class 313/1 seats 202 (already less than the original design), a 3 car class 378 seats 112 and a 4 car class 378 seats 152. The four car class 378 units should have been designed to have approximately the same number of seats as the 313s, as a balance for the various uses that the units see.

Two diagrams start from Saturday 26th June with 1st trains 0527 ex Euston and 0541 ex Watford

I got on at Kentish Town West today (for a change) and their platform extensions look barely long enough for 4 cars, let alone 5. The same for the extension to Gospel Oak westbound.