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Post by astock5000 on Jul 9, 2010 22:44:10 GMT
There only seemed to be three 378s in service on the DC lines today (units 378229, 230 and 231):
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2010 13:19:59 GMT
Reference to the post by Harlesden (No.14 of 23/6/10 at 11.15), originally, and I mean 1915 here, when the Bakerloo was extended Queen's Park - Willesden Junction, the bay platforms could accommodate a 5-car train of 'tube' stock. Unsure about main line stock though.
Of course, how long that facility lasted I don't know, but once Bakerloos became 6-cars (and 7 cars early post war), Willesden Junction bay was a no-no (apart from three- or four-car trains). And then the length of the bays were shortened in the 1960s (I believe this has been mentioned before).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2010 15:05:34 GMT
The is a strong possibility that the 378 units currently deployed on the DC service will be reduced to 3 car operation until full 4 car ops begin on the NLL. This is partly to give greater flexibility in stock deployment but also because the problems with train failures have been traced to software issues regarding the 4th coach. Once all platform extensions on the NLL are complete and all the 4th coaches are ready for insertion then all units will be boosted back up to 4 coaches.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2010 15:57:32 GMT
Don't know whether this belongs here or in a new thread, but -
With class 378 operation Euston - Watford beginning on 28 June according to a previous post, can anyone help with the date that the extended bay platform at Willesden was commissioned for 4-car trains - please. Prior to 28/6 presumably.
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Post by astock5000 on Jul 18, 2010 0:02:12 GMT
The is a strong possibility that the 378 units currently deployed on the DC service will be reduced to 3 car operation until full 4 car ops begin on the NLL. This is partly to give greater flexibility in stock deployment but also because the problems with train failures have been traced to software issues regarding the 4th coach. Once all platform extensions on the NLL are complete and all the 4th coaches are ready for insertion then all units will be boosted back up to 4 coaches. If this happens, will the units be renumbered to 3780xx, or will they still be class 378/2? Is the 'software issue' also affecting the units on the ELL? Also, I think there hasn't been a delivery for nearly a month (the last delivery was 378201 on 22nd June). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2010 8:49:59 GMT
No idea! We all think the expense associated with reducing to 3 cars is not worth it, but then who ever listens to the experts!
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Post by tubeprune on Jul 18, 2010 10:50:22 GMT
The is a strong possibility that the 378 units currently deployed on the DC service will be reduced to 3 car operation until full 4 car ops begin on the NLL. This is partly to give greater flexibility in stock deployment but also because the problems with train failures have been traced to software issues regarding the 4th coach. ...snip... Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs. I've heard it all. You mean, rather than get on with it and fix the software bug, they are going to uncouple all those cars and shunt them out of the way somewhere, probably in the open as there won't be room in the shed. Then they will have to protect the ends to stop the rain, leaves, cats, rats and other univited guests getting in. They'll have to plug the sockets and store the jumpers. If they've got batteries, they'll need storing. They'll have to do something about the air suspension (I assume they've got air suspension) etc. Need I go on? OK, now six months have gone by and it's time to get these cars out of storage. They'll need cleaning and testing before they are put into a unit. Some of the stored items will have gone missing to fix service trains and you'll have to order more. Some bits won't work so they'll need fixing. Don't forget that condensation and dust will get into places you never knew existed. Then they'll need testing again. Some bits still won't work. Then, assuming they've got the software right, they'll need testing again once they've put them back into a unit. It will cost a fortune. Still, lots of overtime!!! I've got a tenner that says the failures on these units will be higher than the rest of the fleet for months. Oh yes, once they're back in traffic, the cars will have different mileages in the same unit. Oh dear! They forgot the first rule of train delivery. Never store completed vehicles! |
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Post by andypurk on Jul 18, 2010 12:09:36 GMT
If there really is a serious software issue on the 378/2s, then just install the software that is in use on the 4 car 378/1s and temporarily make the units DC only. Testing can then continue, on a train with the newer software, without causing issues for the DC line service. Or is the software on the 378/1s also causing problems to the ELL?
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Post by astock5000 on Jul 18, 2010 23:25:43 GMT
378226 is now being used on the DC lines. Is 378227 in service yet?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2010 13:57:34 GMT
Whats this a little dicky bird tells me that a 3 car operated over the weekend but needed a DRIVER MANAGER to act as a Guard because the stop boards are only geared up for 4 car operation?
Why oh why do trains now have to have computers and loads of other things on it for it to go wrong i mean LOROL/BOMBARDIER still havent managed to sort out the air con yet? We are told not to open the windows even if the air con has packed up let alone blowing out hot air. No matter what the temp is outside or in! Take today one train i was on it was warmer in one coach then it was outside and the other coaches resembled fridges
Whilst i am on this rant about the trains i have to work on why does it take so long for a pan up / pan down to happen? I seem to remember not that long ago on the old 1970s trains we had it took all of a couple of seconds now with 21st technology it takes between 2 and 4 minutes! So much for progress no wonder there is so much slack in the timetable.
Rant over!
Now i will take a chill pill and calm down.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2010 21:52:55 GMT
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Post by dazz285 on Jul 21, 2010 11:27:06 GMT
astock5000 378227 was on a test run from Willesden to Watford and back this morning.. All went well and it should be put in service asap.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2010 11:38:36 GMT
Whats this a little dicky bird tells me that a 3 car operated over the weekend but needed a DRIVER MANAGER to act as a Guard because the stop boards are only geared up for 4 car operation? The same 4 car stop boards only a car length ahead of the 3 car stop boards that have only just been covered up. Surely the on board monitors should have been working or was this a defective unit, should it then have been stopped. I wonder how a 3 car 313 could have ever run with the 3 car stop boards covered up................Mmmm now there is a thought. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2010 17:54:54 GMT
378208 was in service yesterday on the DCs, as I had it on the 11:17 Euston - watford Junction.
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Post by andypurk on Aug 4, 2010 18:04:33 GMT
378208 was in service yesterday on the DCs, as I had it on the 11:17 Euston - watford Junction. And I saw 378 210 in service today, on the 18.37 ex Harrow & Wealdstone. |
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Post by astock5000 on Aug 8, 2010 0:16:06 GMT
378232 and 233 have been delivered to Ashford. 378201 is also there, and 378211 and 216 could come back from Derby in the next few weeks, so it seems there will be a lot of spare 4-car units until the NLL platform extensions are finished.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2010 14:44:57 GMT
When I went to Watford the other day, I used the main line, but I saw nothing but 378s on the way. How far on is the rollout?
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Post by patstonuk on Aug 9, 2010 16:55:23 GMT
When I went to Watford the other day, I used the main line, but I saw nothing but 378s on the way. How far on is the rollout? On several days over the past couple of weeks all six DC Lines diagrams have been worked by 378/2s. Initially it was entirely 378226-231 but since their return from Derby as 4-car sets, 378208 and 210 have also been in action on these services. I wonder if it all begs the question whether delivery of 4-car sets (either new or strengthened from existing 3-car) will have to be slowed so as to ensure sufficient 3-car sets remain at Willesden pending completion of infrastructure enhancements to permit 4-car operation on the NLL. I'll look up how many diagrams still need 3-car formations when I get the chance. |
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Post by patstonuk on Aug 9, 2010 18:38:09 GMT
I wonder if it all begs the question whether delivery of 4-car sets (either new or strengthened from existing 3-car) will have to be slowed so as to ensure sufficient 3-car sets remain at Willesden pending completion of infrastructure enhancements to permit 4-car operation on the NLL. I'll look up how many diagrams still need 3-car formations when I get the chance. OK - there are 16 diagrams covering the SX NLL/WLL service. So of the original 24 378/0s, six are either out as 4-car (201 - still at Chart Leacon; 202 - back at Derby for rectification; 208 - in traffic; 210 - in traffic); or at Derby for strengthening (211 and 216). That leaves 18 3-car units to cover the 16 diagrams - which is no doubt why 313s have made a limited reappearance on NLL services. So if I were a betting man I'd say the NLL platform lengthening programme, while it remains uncompleted, will preclude the conversion of any more 378/0s to 378/2. Quite how long that may last is a question I am not qualified to comment on. Can anyone else? |
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Post by astock5000 on Aug 16, 2010 19:52:24 GMT
378201 has entered service on the ELL.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2010 22:08:08 GMT
There is a picture of a 6 car empty stock (2x3car) Class 378 approaching Harrow & Wealdstone in August's Underground News.
I was surprised at this as the Class 313's were prohibited from working as 6 cars allegedly due to power supply issues! Class 501, LMS 3-car and Oerlikon EMUs were allowed to run as 6-cars and in passenger service however they only had one power car per 3-car set.
I presume that the power supply has been upgraded?
Xerces Fobe
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Post by andypurk on Aug 18, 2010 23:59:09 GMT
There is a picture of a 6 car empty stock (2x3car) Class 378 approaching Harrow & Wealdstone in August's Underground News. I was surprised at this as the Class 313's were prohibited from working as 6 cars allegedly due to power supply issues! Class 501, LMS 3-car and Oerlikon EMUs were allowed to run as 6-cars and in passenger service however they only had one power car per 3-car set. I presume that the power supply has been upgraded? Xerces Fobe That makes the assumption that both class 378 units were taking full power. Can the total power draw be limited when two units are coupled? The original Electrostars certainly had computer controlled limits on power allowed, until Network Rail had finished upgrading the supplies on the Southern and South Eastern networks. |
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Post by metman on Aug 19, 2010 21:37:28 GMT
I remember hearing that too. I've seen capitalstars using the OHLE on the local WCML. I guess they were being tested and would have no problems running in multiple.
If the power supply was upgraded, would it affect the Bakerloo?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 22:20:20 GMT
There is a picture of a 6 car empty stock (2x3car) Class 378 approaching Harrow & Wealdstone in August's Underground News. I was surprised at this as the Class 313's were prohibited from working as 6 cars allegedly due to power supply issues! Class 501, LMS 3-car and Oerlikon EMUs were allowed to run as 6-cars and in passenger service however they only had one power car per 3-car set. I presume that the power supply has been upgraded? My understanding is that 6-car 313s are permitted on the Watford DC line, but that to operate in passenger service a guard would be needed because the station OPO mirrors are configured for 3-car only. This would not affect 378s as these have OPO cctv with in-cab displays, so don't need the station mirrors. Any question of two unit working will presumably become academic once all 313s have gone elsewhere and all 378s are 4-cars, as many DC line platforms can't accommodate more than 6 cars of main line stock. |
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Post by mrjrt on Aug 22, 2010 18:29:12 GMT
Any question of two unit working will presumably become academic once all 313s have gone elsewhere and all 378s are 4-cars, as many DC line platforms can't accommodate more than 6 cars of main line stock. I think you're right, but I'm surprised that that's the case. I've noticed that a Bakerloo train probably leaves a spare carriage-length at Harrow and Wealdstone, and a 4-car 378 probably leaves about 2 378 carriage-lengths spare, but the platforms don't seem that different in length to the adjacent mainline ones sans their 12 car extensions. How do the carriage and train lengths compare to the 377s or the 321s? |
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Post by andypurk on Aug 22, 2010 19:35:57 GMT
Any question of two unit working will presumably become academic once all 313s have gone elsewhere and all 378s are 4-cars, as many DC line platforms can't accommodate more than 6 cars of main line stock. I think you're right, but I'm surprised that that's the case. I've noticed that a Bakerloo train probably leaves a spare carriage-length at Harrow and Wealdstone, and a 4-car 378 probably leaves about 2 378 carriage-lengths spare, but the platforms don't seem that different in length to the adjacent mainline ones sans their 12 car extensions. How do the carriage and train lengths compare to the 377s or the 321s? Platform 1 at Harrow & Wealdstone is a fair bit shorter than the other platforms, barely extending beyond the footbridge at the northern end. Also, the track is no longer in quite the right place for using the full length of platform 2, with the exit from the siding in the way as well. The class 378 coaches are basically the same length as the class 321s; the 321s are just under 20m per coach and the 378s just over. For comparison, the 1972 stock is around 16m per car (depending on whether they are driving or non cars), so the 7 car Bakerloo train is shorter (~112m) than a six car 378 (or 313) (~120m) which would fit in the platforms on the DC lines. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2010 22:03:14 GMT
The current platform lengths of a number on former London District DC lines are based on the length of a 2 x 3-car train consisting of Oerlikon and/or LMS EMU which were in the around 57ft per coach.
Xerces Fobe
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Post by Ben on Aug 29, 2010 2:03:42 GMT
Had my first ride on one a week ago. Interesting to see that 'strap hangers' are accomodated for, despite all the stuff LUL have done about the bobbles/straps in the past 20 years. Got one, was impressed. Sat down on seat between windows, banged head hard on wall behind. Didn't quite expect that one...  |
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Post by mrjrt on Aug 31, 2010 10:21:17 GMT
Sat down on seat between windows, banged head hard on wall behind. Didn't quite expect that one... Yeah, I keep doing that. Not sure why, doesn't happen to me on any other train! |
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Post by astock5000 on Aug 31, 2010 22:39:23 GMT
378234 has been delivered to Ashford.
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