Class 378s

I saw 378008 at Watford this afternoon, at about 2:35. It left Watford Junction a few minutes later, so it must have been testing.

What questions? Other than the identity and date of the next unit to be delivered. 378 225 was always down to be delivered as a 4 car, as it was the first of the additional units ordered for the ELL. I'm still interested in when the additional trailers for the class 378/0s will be delivered / integrated into their trains.

The first order (Aug 2006) was for 24 x class 378/0 (3 car dual voltage) for the existing network plus 20 x class 378/1 (4 car DC only) for the ELL.

This was followed by the order (in July 07) for 3 x class 378/2 (4 car dual voltage) for the ELL plus the 24 coaches to convert the 378/0s to 378/2. Unit 225 is part of this order.

A final 7 x class 378/2 were ordered in Feb '08.

Questions such as:
Would the 4th car insertion programme precede the delivery of the dual-voltage 378225 series?
Would production continue uninterrupted following completion of the 378/0 and 378/1 series.
As the previous post to this has indicated, your quoted details are not quite correct - you are 3 units short!

Can you tell me when these were actually ordered then?

As my numbers add up to original order plus the option included at the time:

216 coaches formed of
Order 1: 24 x 3 + 20 x 4 = 152
Order 2: 24 x 1 + 3 x 4 = 36
Order 3: 7 x 4 = 28
Total = 216

Any ELL Phase II units must be covered by a new order and I havn't seen any 'news' mentioning such an additional order.

378002 is a pre-production unit and might not be ready yet, so it is possible that it will be delivered as a 378/2.

The other pre-production train, 378001, also hasn't been delivered yet. I read somewhere that the MSO that was in 378004 when it was testing as a 4-car was 38201, so it seems likely that the first unit will be delivered as 378201.

Units aren't always delivered in order, so it isn't that strange that 378225 is being delivered before 378024.


Although 378225 was ordered for the ELL, I don't think the line will need any extra units until the extension to Highbury & Islington opens next year, so it might enter service at Willesden, so that 378/0s can be taken out of service to have their extra car added.

When will the platform extensions on the NLL be completed?

The additional 3 Class 378/2s were ordred in June 2009 at the same time as authorisation was given to construct the Silwood Link. I was at the TfL Board meeting and spoke to Ian Brown (MD TfL London Rail). All 378 units are leased and not owned by TfL. The additional cars for the 378/0 units will start arriving in the mid-late summer; there is no rush as all of the platform extension works will not be completed before the (short) Christmas 2010 blockade. I expect the first 4 car NLL service in February 2011. Signalling work will be completed after the (also short) February 2011 blockade, so I suspect full 4 car service by mid-month.

Yes it's quite possible that a small dedicated detachment of 4 car modified 378/2s could operate on the DC in advance of NLL. But again this will not be possible before the mid-summer as the cars have to be delivered and then integrated and tested to ensure the software recognises them. If this does happen I would put a bet on mid-late September. But then again the DOO problems need to be sorted quickly as Southern and FCC need the 313s as soon as possible.

I think it would make sense to lengthen 6 class 378/0s for the DC lines, and also use 2 of the new batch. That would leave 18 378/0s for the NLL and WLL services. When the platform extensions are finished the other units could be lengthened. The last units running as 3-car could then run on the DC lines, as that service is less crowded.

They are dual voltage so they can also be used on the NLL if necessary.

The bulk of the extra units (7 of the 10 original extra) were ordered for strengthening services on the North London Line with some extra Stratford - Camden Road peak hour shuttles planned. There is also the possibility of units from the East London Line stabling at Orient Way sidings, Stratford and to get there they would need to be dual voltage units or be dragged by a dual voltage unit.

Having the later units as dual voltage means that the units can be moved between duties as required. It has never really been clear why all the units, including the original 20 for the ELL, were not dual voltage, other than a small cost saving.

I suspect the answer as to why the original 20 were not dual voltage is that they were ordered (or at least specified) for the TfL ELL (ELLX project), when the NLL was still part of Silverlink, before TfL took that over to form London Overground.

And I do feel that a lot of other things would have been done differently had the ELLX been planned as part of an integrated LO, rather than something pretty much separate.

Sorry, I don't know how much difference there would have been. Experience has shown that the cost difference isn't huge (compared to the price of the trains in the first place), as there are quite a few dual voltage units around which have never used the ability, a prime example being the class 375/6 units with South Eastern.

I'm sure I've seen Southeastern 375s going through London Bridge with Pantographs (down obviously).

There are 30 x 4 car Class 375/6 units fitted with pantographs and I believe fitted out completely for dual-voltage operation. However, I don't think they have ever run in AC mode in passenger service.