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Post by A60stock on Feb 2, 2024 13:38:35 GMT
How long has this issue been going on for?
Roughly how many trains per hour are being taken from the main service and terminated short?
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Post by A60stock on Jan 26, 2024 16:56:37 GMT
92s may be knackered in comparison (in part) as they're the first stock to follow a very intense timetable and the first under ATO for the line.
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Post by A60stock on Jan 26, 2024 10:19:35 GMT
When you say traditionally controlled, does this mean that when the Piccadilly is no longer under "Traditional" control, that the flexibility to alter platform allocation as a moments notice will no longer be possible?
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Post by A60stock on Jan 26, 2024 9:22:35 GMT
I’ve always considered the middle platforms at Acton Town to be mostly used for the Heathrow service. That has the highest frequency. The District and Uxbridge branches seem to be lumped together and as they have a lower frequency they share the outer platforms from experience. It’s not an area I travel through regularly but I just feel it is a capacity issue. Agreed. Although the Uxbridge service does tend to use the middle platforms too, especially if a District line train is due at the same time (at least coming back from central london as its not possible for a District and a train FROM Uxbridge to arrive at the same time, coming from Ealing Common). I have also noticed the Northfields trains, to and from, also use the outer platforms due to the track layout. District line trains cannot use the middle platforms if running a full and through service.
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Post by A60stock on Jan 24, 2024 12:59:21 GMT
Ofcourse hindsight is a great thing but I do really think with some structured planning and adequate funding, TFL really should have considered replacing the 72ts, the 73ts and the 92ts at the same time with one single order, benefiting from the "bulk" saving principle.
I dont know how long previous central line fleets have lasted but I think (especially given todays intense service demands compared to yesteryear), that 30-35 years should be the expected lifespan of a central line fleet given how intensely worked any fleet would be on the line. Bare in mind that the 62ts before that (which did not need to meet as much of an intense service level), were replaced in after 33 years.
I dont know what is to come but at some point both this fleet and the bakerloo will need to be replaced, and ultimately, kicking the can down the road will only result in more money having to be spent for both the short run and long run.
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Post by A60stock on Jan 21, 2024 22:23:43 GMT
But it does not have the capability to setup as Fast between Moor Park and Harrow but stopping as all stations south of Harrow (without the driver manually intervening at Harrow), and vice versa coming in the Northbound direction (all stations to harrow, fast from there on to Moor Park) - Which is what I meant in my original post.
Completely unrelated but this brings me onto another question:
At Harrow southbound - I have always found it strange that a train can still be semi fast or fast when its the same thing. Would have thought its easier for the system to just call everything which skips stations going south, Fast. It might confuse some customers!
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Post by A60stock on Jan 21, 2024 21:35:24 GMT
Did they run fast south of harrow? Or was this a case of the "reverse" semi fast pattern. I do wonder why the S stock cannot have this built into the PIS rather then have to change the train to fast at harrow every time. Should call it a "fast-semi"
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Post by A60stock on Jan 13, 2024 12:08:21 GMT
Does anyone have any footage, both pictures or video of the 72 stock between Harrow and Wealdstone and Watford Junction before the section was withdrawn?
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Post by A60stock on Jan 9, 2024 15:45:02 GMT
What exactly is causing the delay in commissioning this area?
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Post by A60stock on Jan 4, 2024 14:49:53 GMT
What I am trying to work out is (assuming it is, or was possible to allow movement to and from the middle platforms at Acton Town, to/from the locals) is the following:
1. A District line service to Upminster/HSK using platform 3 (I think I have my numbering correct) AND also being able to call at all local stations there onwards OR 2. A District line service to Ealing BDWY using platform 2, having come from the locals i.e. last stop was Chiswick Park.
If I recall correctly, the signage at Acton Town has ALWAYS (at least in the last 20 years) referred to District Line trains only serving the outer platforms 1 and 4 only (even where the above two scenarios were possible). I was wondering why the middle platforms 2 and 3 were always (as far as I can remember) Piccadilly ONLY*** and the District is/was only allowed (even where possible) to only use the outer two platforms, rather than allow both lines to use all four**?
**appreciate the scenarios detailed above may now may be physically impossible, but I am pretty sure there were possible until recently. ***yet the Piccadilly line is allowed to use all 4 platforms
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Post by A60stock on Jan 4, 2024 11:02:12 GMT
At Acton Town, what is the reason the District line only uses the outer platforms but the Piccadilly is able to use all 4?
Are/Were District line trains ever able to use the middle platforms, 2 and 3 and has this ever been done in practice recently (i.e. at least as far back at the D78 stock era)?
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Post by A60stock on Dec 18, 2023 23:37:47 GMT
Travelling back at around 730, got to harrow around 740. Informed the line is shut with only Uxbridge trains running as normal with the mainline (fast and slows) suspended Harrow to northwood, due to a signal failure around the Pinner area. Announcements at Harrow saying both Chiltern and met are suspended. However, I did see one south bound Chiltern train turn up at 752, although delayed by 20 mins.
Waited around 20 to 30 mins. Uxbridge trains running as usual and finally an Amersham all stations turns up. It waited a while but finally got a move on. It took 15 mins to get between North Harrow and Pinner as the train had to be talked through 2 or 3 signals using the 'trip' method. I'm not sure if these were the only affected signals because as the train left Pinner, it did the same thing, being tripped by the next signal.
I've taken a look right now and the issue has still not been sorted out so looks like it's something quite serious and definitely not specific to the slows or fasts as both lines are affected and I did notice a number of trains parked on the fast lines southbound when I was on the amersham train.
On exiting Pinner, the station was actually shut for entry and I saw no southbound locals so clearly despite my train running, the section of the line was officially shut. Sorry, this is a long post but my questions are as follows:
1. What actually happened?
2. The Amersham I was on appeared to be the only train which went through, as the service remained suspended officially. If this managed to get through, why not run some sort of service? Or another way of putting it I guess is why did they let that one go through? Did any others get through?
3. The aforementioned Chiltern service which I saw at Harrow at 752, how did this get through?
4. A number of not in service trains turned up at Harrow southbound (assuming having been supposed to have come from Watford, Amersham or Chesham) but for some reason occupied both platforms 5 and 6 for a while, holding up a que of trains coming from Uxbridge. Why not move these trains to Wembley/neasden via the fasts rather than have them block both platforms at harrow?
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Post by A60stock on Dec 13, 2023 14:47:11 GMT
The issue is the fact that as soon as you add all of the other types of transport, the map no longer becomes fit for purposes in its present form. It is physically too small to have everything on there.
The style of how lines are shown/design of the map, which IIRC, the present modern design/format was first brought about in 1990 - the first one showing the H&C line (the styles all before this look quite different).
There are a number of other designs which are not official but would work much better, which I have seen before. Maybe its time for a change?
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Post by A60stock on Dec 13, 2023 14:40:22 GMT
The DLR is not connected by rail to any other network so there would need to be a lorry trip as part of a journey anyway which probably significantly impacts the economics of using the Channel Tunnel, even if the wheel profile poses no issues and they are otherwise within gauge (I don't know). I imagine that there would also be requirements to register them as approved rail vehicles (with all the paperwork and expense that entails) that will probably not be otherwise necessary for vehicles confined to a non-interoperable network like the DLR. Is there not a connection around the Stratford area? From the GEML? Nor one between the C2C lines and the DLR around the area where they run parallel to each other?
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Post by A60stock on Dec 7, 2023 16:36:08 GMT
So I believe the overground (or BR) as it was back in the day, had exclusive use over the tracks north of Stonebridge park for a few years around the time the bakerloo split off from the jubilee. Why was this done and what service was run over the DC line with these trains pretty much having sole use of the lines for most of it? Even after (or before?) this, the present all day service to Harrow only began around the late 80s, which meant BR again had to provide the full service for much of the day? How frequent was the service?
It has been done before in the past so could easily be done again.
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Post by A60stock on Dec 5, 2023 11:12:35 GMT
What were the circumstances which led to a 313 hitting a Bakerloo - was that in passenger service?
I would assume the signalling around Euston is very secure to prevent such a situation arising. But isn't the only place where DC trains intermix very close to the station? Where the speed limits are already very low?
I assumed a 378 or a 710 were of similar weight to a 350 but I guess the problem is the 390s/8XXs, and mixing of underground and intercity has never been done before (although as stated before, they'd only mix where speed limits are very low).
A shame things are so complex because you could really turn the Bakerloo into something much more with two southern branches (Euston and Current) and an extension into Lewisham on the existing line, whilst also simplifying the service north of Queens park as one operation and one type of stock (but built specifically to NR standards)
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Post by A60stock on Dec 4, 2023 12:13:34 GMT
However, it is extremely unlikely that 'Tube' format stock would ever run into Euston. Apart from general issues with lighter Underground stock intermixing with much larger Intercity trains without suitable safety systems fitted, there is a lack of 4th rail and the platforms at Euston are not the compromise height needed for mixed mainline / Underground operation. If Bakerloo trains were to take over the DC line service then almost certainly a Euston - Queen's Park/Willesden Junction LO shuttle would be the answer, Queen's Park would allow dedicated platform heights but loss of easy interchange, Willesden Junction would allow level interchange in both directions. Is this actually an issue given that the tube stock which would go to Euston would already intermix with the stock being used on the DC? Therefore, if the 24ts on the Bakerloo already are safety approved (or whatever the technical term is for tube stock to run on national rail), to run with the 710s/378s and previously (in the case of the 72s) 313s and 501s before that, which are all past and present National Rail standard stock, would it not be ok for current and, more relevantly, future tube stock to intermix with almost anything going into Euston? Alternatively, amend the Bakerloo built of 24ts or whatever end ups replacing the 72s with something which is "Euston" approved. To be clear, I am not suggesting the current 72s run to Euston.
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Post by A60stock on Nov 26, 2023 23:14:05 GMT
A train every 5 minutes seems sufficient off peak for stations between Harrow And Finchley Road?
Perhaps omit Wembley as a stop entirely off peak asides from all stations trains? If you miss your train to Wembley from either the northern section or central london, the next one is 5 mins away. Or when CBTC comes in, increase the total tph across the line from the current 16 as there will be more capacity and you can add extra semi fasts or even fasts.
The infrastructure of the met was built FOR fast and semi fasts and should be used for that purpose all day, at least for semi fasts, instead of having it lie unused most of the time. The met ran this way for decades and decades until Dec 2011 and it worked fine?
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Post by A60stock on Nov 23, 2023 15:07:25 GMT
Re-opening an age old question here but but would TFL consider bringing back off peak fasts or at least semi fasts?
I understood that the fasts were almost empty off peak but surely the semi fasts between Harrow and Finchley Road would justify some sort of demand and by making the Amersham/Chesham trains Semi fast, you would only lose 4tph on the slows and still have 12tph serving Northwick Park, Preston Road and Wembley Park (Southbound only at Wembley, Northbound still call all day), which already has a sufficient Jubilee service?
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Post by A60stock on Nov 23, 2023 13:48:15 GMT
you don't agree that in the video posted 19 November that the train looked in slightly better condition than most '92s? I'm not sure, perhaps it's the video and the actual train looks far better in person. But as someone else has pointed out, the roundels aren't haven't even been redone so I assumed this was not the final article in terms of the exterior. To me, it does not look like they have done anything to it to be quite honest but understand something might have been done. Even if it is a "slight" improvement, I would have thought TFL would make the first one look significantly improved (which would help with PR), even if this meant the rest are untouched as they re-enter service. EDIT - I have taken a closer look and see what you mean now. It does look better, but I guess the roundels and the fact one of the doors just as the trains starts moving has some sort of marks on it were what I was focusing on.
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Post by A60stock on Nov 23, 2023 11:52:40 GMT
I really hope they've done something about the paintwork (whether it be a reliver or polish) as all this PR and making it a press event with a train which looks externally tired will not look good!
Somehow I suspect (and am hopeful) TFL aren't telling us something and there was some work done in the few days running up to the launch.
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Post by A60stock on Nov 20, 2023 15:47:06 GMT
I have often heard the 73 stock has never operated at its full capability - Which leads me to ask, how quick would they accelerate from a stand still and which stock would it compare well with today?
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Post by A60stock on Nov 17, 2023 16:43:33 GMT
If these are due in service in around a fortnight, I am quite surprised that there are no final pictures. It is as if TFL are trying to keep this some sort of top secret?!
We have seen more of the 2024 stock - those are what you call something of great anticipation given the technology advancements on these trains.
This project is just refurbished trains which are 30+ years old! I am pretty sure the refurbs of the 90s incorporated bigger changes?
Maybe there is something more to this to be revealed in due course
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Post by A60stock on Nov 17, 2023 11:04:13 GMT
Has anyone got any pictures of the polished up livery, which has been done instead of a full re-liver.
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Post by A60stock on Nov 15, 2023 10:19:25 GMT
Did the 95ts come with a full DVA upon entering service from new? I know the 96ts only used to announce the destination at first and that it took years before a full DVA came into use
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Post by A60stock on Nov 14, 2023 16:24:26 GMT
Ofcourse! I was assuming the DVA was broken and the driver gave up with it, but realise it may not have been that.
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Post by A60stock on Nov 14, 2023 15:44:26 GMT
In such situations, would it not make more sense to switch the DVA off with the driver making the announcement at key stations or, if possible, just set it to state the destination of the train? This seems more logical than having incorrect information displayed.
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Post by A60stock on Oct 16, 2023 16:14:29 GMT
I recall these used to be a prominent feature of peak time destinations. When were these removed? It seems this is a very useful turning point
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Post by A60stock on Oct 16, 2023 8:41:40 GMT
Out of interest how far is the northern parts of the met away from being resignalled, I loose the plot on the detail of the dates. So do those of us working on the project! I'm not sure what the current programme date is for Harrow but I would imagine some time in 2025. There hasn't been any systems testing in SMAs 13 or 14 yet. What about the line from Finchley Road to Preston Road, when does that switch over?
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Post by A60stock on Oct 16, 2023 8:38:49 GMT
On top of this, why are these the only platforms to use full LED screens on the entire network! They should use these on the rest of the network, as older DMIs get replaced.
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